But he has a higher sadness rating, so his opinion is of more value than yours 
Yawn
I have no problem with drifters, except when they act like little kids who cry candy from mom. And keep on crying if they don't get candy.
Tell Jesus I said hi when you get off that cross. I'm outta this thread and hopefully the door hits me on my way out to get me going faster. Peace!
Lajoosh, I'm no drifter myslef but you're the MAN! Glad when someone here has the courage to defy the elitist asshats that rule this forum. 
I'm so sick and tired of these jerks with their pseudo real arguments and knuckleheaded attitudes to anyone and anything that differs from their point of view. We're (S2 licensed) all paying customers here, so who has the right to get any of use the GET THE **** OFF or SHUT UP? NO ONE, THAT'S WHO!
Power to the underdogs!
I'm so sick and tired of these jerks with their pseudo real arguments and knuckleheaded attitudes to anyone and anything that differs from their point of view. We're (S2 licensed) all paying customers here, so who has the right to get any of use the GET THE **** OFF or SHUT UP? NO ONE, THAT'S WHO!
Power to the underdogs!
Well, I could reheat this little flamewar by saying LFS is an online racing simulator and drifting isn't a form of race (see above, it's a form of competition though), so drifters' request can be ignored, but I won't do that.
As I said before (twice, I think) more max lock is fine, as long the setups stay(become) realistic too. You won't be able to have a really low ride height along with high steering angles unless you would have approx. zero motion range, so the tyre won't scrub against the chassis.
Suspension geometry should be taken into aspect too. I think (yep, I have no proof for this - yet), that different suspensions are differently modable in the steering part.
So I would say more max lock is possible, will probably done some day, but don't exspect it in the next few patches. Maybe when setups get more refined.
As I said before (twice, I think) more max lock is fine, as long the setups stay(become) realistic too. You won't be able to have a really low ride height along with high steering angles unless you would have approx. zero motion range, so the tyre won't scrub against the chassis.
Suspension geometry should be taken into aspect too. I think (yep, I have no proof for this - yet), that different suspensions are differently modable in the steering part.
So I would say more max lock is possible, will probably done some day, but don't exspect it in the next few patches. Maybe when setups get more refined.
The whole thing of racing versus drifting is as childish as it can be. Let's look at skating for example. You have ice hockey and figure skating. You don't do goals in latter nor score style points in the first one. Why should it make a point when you say that "you lose time when you drift so your lap times are worse" or by gripping through the corners you don't score as much points". Neither of these make any sense and still you hear them all the time when drifting is the topic or has something to do with it. It goes well along with the "bashing the driftahs" theme, no one can deny that.
There are lots of things you can do with your car in real life. Autocrossing, drifting, racing, orienteering etc.. If we start really thinking about what should be in LFS or not on the basis of is it directly racing related, we only have racing in its purest form. Autocrossing, drifting and orienteering are the most useless, idiotic and dumbest things you can do with your car. Because they are not 100% racing related. This leads to that the cars in LFS should be as realistic as possible, but only as long as it is looked through the racing perspective. The fact that it may take just few hours or less to do some tweaks to your car to get it turn better (more steering lock) means that it should not be in LFS because true racers don't need it. Doesn't matter if you can spend days and weeks changing your 100% standard car's suspensions arms, arbs and gearboxes because it is racing related. Why? The current state of LFS means that you can change, tweak and adjust every option in your car with scientific precision. Increase final gear ratio by 0.037, reduce the locking on the rear LFS by exactly 10% while adding 10Nm of braking torque. On a standard car. This is the current state of LFS, but I wouldn't want to see that it is how it should be, or how it will always be. However some smaller tweaks can be done on real cars, so these little tweaks should be doable on LFS cars too. Allow few degrees for changing castor angles. No big deal. Change stiffer suspension. What kind of suspensions components? Just slightly stiffer. Ok. Increasing steering lock to 45 degrees? No way, are you one those drifters? **** off!
The point is that the cars in LFS aren't 100% standard so you can't say that real Starion etc. doesn't have 45 degrees of steering lock. Neither has it stiff racing suspension, racing dampers, racing brakes etc...
The point is that LFS aims to be a realistic racing sim. If it includes autocrossing it should include drifting too. To autocross you need a place where to do it. If you want to drift, you need a car to do it. You can do autocrossing on the back straight of the Blackwood race track or you can drift with the XRG but if you want to do it anyway near like the pros do it, you have a parking lot and a car that has enough steering lock.
-omg-
There are lots of things you can do with your car in real life. Autocrossing, drifting, racing, orienteering etc.. If we start really thinking about what should be in LFS or not on the basis of is it directly racing related, we only have racing in its purest form. Autocrossing, drifting and orienteering are the most useless, idiotic and dumbest things you can do with your car. Because they are not 100% racing related. This leads to that the cars in LFS should be as realistic as possible, but only as long as it is looked through the racing perspective. The fact that it may take just few hours or less to do some tweaks to your car to get it turn better (more steering lock) means that it should not be in LFS because true racers don't need it. Doesn't matter if you can spend days and weeks changing your 100% standard car's suspensions arms, arbs and gearboxes because it is racing related. Why? The current state of LFS means that you can change, tweak and adjust every option in your car with scientific precision. Increase final gear ratio by 0.037, reduce the locking on the rear LFS by exactly 10% while adding 10Nm of braking torque. On a standard car. This is the current state of LFS, but I wouldn't want to see that it is how it should be, or how it will always be. However some smaller tweaks can be done on real cars, so these little tweaks should be doable on LFS cars too. Allow few degrees for changing castor angles. No big deal. Change stiffer suspension. What kind of suspensions components? Just slightly stiffer. Ok. Increasing steering lock to 45 degrees? No way, are you one those drifters? **** off!
The point is that the cars in LFS aren't 100% standard so you can't say that real Starion etc. doesn't have 45 degrees of steering lock. Neither has it stiff racing suspension, racing dampers, racing brakes etc...
The point is that LFS aims to be a realistic racing sim. If it includes autocrossing it should include drifting too. To autocross you need a place where to do it. If you want to drift, you need a car to do it. You can do autocrossing on the back straight of the Blackwood race track or you can drift with the XRG but if you want to do it anyway near like the pros do it, you have a parking lot and a car that has enough steering lock.
-omg-
Y'know how the Patch subforum has that java pop-up with the rules on it? I think the Improvement Suggestions section needs exactly the same sort of thing, with a code of conduct regarding anything to do with drifting and some more active moderation. Regardless of peoples' good intentions these drifting threads always seem to end up nasty.
Of course, I may be kidding. But only maybe only 50%
Of course, I may be kidding. But only maybe only 50%
Yes, the courage to defy long term LFS fans who want the best for the sim with some poorly written, and often inaccuate personal opinion!
You're so sick and tired of the asshats here that you CONTINUE to post the SAME comments about TBO, Turbo lag, dynamic toe, to such an extent that a rather large proportion of the regular posters dislike you. I'd be sick and tired of being here too if I was too stupid to just shut up and think of useful things to say.
Power to the morons who think that a lack of a post count makes them inferior, yet can't think of one new idea a month. Well, 3 months I guess, because that's got to be when you last suggested something new. Apart from your castor thread today, but you'd already suggested that in a previous post anyway, so it doesn't count as new.
As said before, Lajoosh, find something better to do than dragging this thread down. Man, for a few posts I thought we could have serious discussion related to drifting but then you come in and start insulting people! No wonder there's so much hostility here against drifters.
Oh yeah, as an experienced LFS drifter, I'd like to make it CLEAR that...
DRIFTING IS NOT RACING. IT'S A MOTORSPORT.
Having thought about this for quite a bit, drifting is can't be considered as racing. Even the most basic racing involves two things: getting from A to B faster than the other guy. In order to get from A to B, you usually need to do something else than drift.
PS. Sorry that a few bad apples turned this thread into complete BS again
. Not all drifters are like this.
Oh yeah, as an experienced LFS drifter, I'd like to make it CLEAR that...
DRIFTING IS NOT RACING. IT'S A MOTORSPORT.
Having thought about this for quite a bit, drifting is can't be considered as racing. Even the most basic racing involves two things: getting from A to B faster than the other guy. In order to get from A to B, you usually need to do something else than drift.
PS. Sorry that a few bad apples turned this thread into complete BS again
. Not all drifters are like this.Damn, that's some big text I thought I already said that though 
Maybe my font was too little 
I'm with you though - a touch of civilisation around here, from both sides of the fence I must say, could go a long way in raising the tone of this place :up:
I thought I already said that though Maybe my font was too little I'm with you though - a touch of civilisation around here, from both sides of the fence I must say, could go a long way in raising the tone of this place :up:
Seriously:
Maybe this thread turns useful again...
(thisnameistaken)
DELETED
by thisnameistaken
In case you're wondering, I wasn't quite 100% in agreement with Lajoosh, but it's rather interesting to observe that someone actually bothers to post something THAT defiant.
And FYI, I've been running LFS since the S1 days so don't tell me about long term racer crap. If anyone cares about LFS from a car physics and setup point of view, I do. Hence all the posts about the related stuff.
And who was the first guy to use such obscene statements as shut up or that kind of crap on a fellow forum member? Me or you trist? Jeez. And the almighty tristan hasn't come up with anything really good anyway besides his same old opinions anyway. And at least I'm bother to emphasize the importance of physics to a sim like LFS. How many new improvement ideas have you come up with in the past month, trist? By last count, I think the number is closer to ZERO.
And who's calling who moron here? Notice that I've not managed to call anyone a moron or tell them to shut up no matter what.
Hey, wait a minute, why do I bother with someone like tristan anyway?
Anyway, I'm happy as long as steering angle doesn't fall below the current level, fine. Any less would make the road cars turn hideously and unrealistically large turning circles. If some want 45 degrees, fine, but I won't agree with anything more. Those crazy angles seen on the 86 posted just now aren't doable without massive alignmnet changes such as scrub radius, fender trims or even cuts and massive changes of steering geometry. The list of mods goes on, but then again most here don't seem to care about all the important and "dull" techincal details.
As far as I'm concerned, gear ratios should defined by numerical fractions and the brake force setting should be removed, since you can't just walk up to your race car and magically readjust maximum brake force. Of course there's the old trick of placing a tennis ball or so under the brake pedal to limit travel and brakeforce, but that's irrelevant. Might as well let racers choose between predefined brake packages for different terrain (e.g. tarmac and rallycross/rally package like RL). Brake proportioning should remain, since a brake bias adjustment is a routine feature of so many track cars.
I just thought of something... I'm pretty sure this has been proposed in an earlier thread and it's kinda off topic, but hear me out. Some people want the cars to be more stock and others want to modify them as much as possible. What if the server admin could make special restrictions regarding what kind of sets we could use? Like lets say, some guy wants the XRT to be as close as possible to a real life counterpart so only 35 degrees of steering lock and an open diff are allowed. Or maybe someone wants to go full out and have the steering at 45 and allow all possible modifications?
Ofcourse this kind of option would be heaploads of work but at the end it would make everyone happy.
Ofcourse this kind of option would be heaploads of work but at the end it would make everyone happy.
Steering lock should be reduced in LX cars IMO. My Dad's Westfield had quite a large turning circle. I never use for than 30 degrees, even when autocrossing. More like 24 when racing.
Good point, though driving a RL LX style car on the street isn't such a brillaint idea anyway. Of course, there's always the Volvo 240 for a view at the extreme end of OEM steering lock.
Hyperactive: Great post, funny is that what you have said was repeated in this thread several times already.. Guys saying "no 45 degrees" seem to ignore this argument..
Anyway, I will kind of repeat what has been said before - Mad angles can be done now. Short video example: http://www.motary.planet.ee/LFS/IBoughtAPFerrari.wmv
The problem is that to do this you have to use all 36 degrees - a TINY mistake and you lose the control(90 Degree angle drift actually often feels like out of control thing in LFS nowadays). Additional 14 degrees would make us more experienced drifters do manners like that more often - it really is fun.
And besides, bigger max lock would make my DFP live longer. :P Nowadays to do high angle/high speed agressive drifting I have to throw my DFP hard from one side to another.
hi folks! im back! :)
thinking back on what we were talking, i can say i was kinda ejoyed it
im not mad on anybody.
but grippers you have to accept that there is a huge need for more steering lock on the drifters side. it doesnt matter if you think its stupid/gay etc the need will still be there. drifting community is huge i say HUEG nowadays not only in real life but in lfs too so the devs should do something about this issue. this time we are not asking for any irreal stuff, no NOS, no neons, nor disabling the tire heating. high lock angle is needed in the motorsport called drift. (i said motorsport, not to hurt anybody though i dont agree with that)
im not mad on anybody.
but grippers you have to accept that there is a huge need for more steering lock on the drifters side. it doesnt matter if you think its stupid/gay etc the need will still be there. drifting community is huge i say HUEG nowadays
not only in real life but in lfs too so the devs should do something about this issue. this time we are not asking for any irreal stuff, no NOS, no neons, nor disabling the tire heating. high lock angle is needed in the motorsport called drift. (i said motorsport, not to hurt anybody though i dont agree with that)-
I love drifting instead normal racing in LFS. I can drift any car with my eyes shut...You know that Lajoosh...(he is my team mate BTW 
)...but i dont really need 45° steering angle...i dont really understand why you need it...to catch too much oversteer when the tires are hot? Simply pit and go on new tires... When we had it in S1, it was good, but we werent so professionals () as we are now, so we needed it...you should rather practice minimal countersteer drift for your AE86
)...but i dont really need 45° steering angle...i dont really understand why you need it...to catch too much oversteer when the tires are hot? Simply pit and go on new tires... When we had it in S1, it was good, but we werent so professionals () as we are now, so we needed it...you should rather practice minimal countersteer drift for your AE86 Read the whole thread and you will understand.
I'm not sure if any devs are reading this thread or are even aware of it, but if you are here, please throw in your opinions on this matter!
thats called racing, togue drifting is when the ppl are drifting, togue racing is all about how is the fastest or who can get across the finish line 1st
drifting is never about who gets across the finish line 1st no matter how much about drifting u think u know
so befor u start saying ppl dont know shit about it maybe u should read up about what it isPS; as psdf said DRIFTING IS NOT RACING. IT'S A MOTORSPORT(he said it bigger tho lol)
I think Lajoosh either does not understand the definition of the word 'race' or he's thinking other racers are trying to diss drifting by saying it's not racing. When I first heard someone say "drifting isn't racing", I immediately thought "What and idiot! Drifting is racing!". But after thinking about it for a while, it just isn't. Drifting can be a motorsport, competition, whatever, but it sure as hell ain't racing.
if you want to go full 90 play netkar
well i have to admit that all of these talks were made me think again about it.
if racing means only thoes kind if motorsports where the only thing that conts is who reach the finishline first, then drift is not racing. ok
anyway here in hungary most ppl thinks and talks about drifting as a kind of racing sport including real life drifters. we even refer to our drift events as drift races in hungarian language. but every day theres a new thing to learn
maybe todays conclusion for me: the meaning of the word racing in english is not equal to what racing means in hungarian language :S
ok, now plz talk about the original topic from now!
Yeah, you should learn feint drift for example :P
Yeah, that was the main point of my post before, Lajoosh - to have a proper discussion about anything it's very important to be clear about the terms we use, especially on a forum like this which has many members from all over the world (and where language differences often cause misunderstandings). That's why I included a standard dictionary definition - so we could all be clear. :up:
Drift Max. Lock
(624 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG