I know that there are several threads about this already, and many more mentions of the topic contained in other threads. I have searched for and read most of it. Still, I don't really have a clear idea of what the most likely inputs for each car would be. If you can all forgive what might be a rehash, could we sum it up?

It seems the F1 car would be best matched with paddles+auto lift+auto blip and auto clutch. Does that seem about right?

The road cars I would expect to be H-pattern with no auto anything.

The GTR's and the rest of the open wheel cars are what have me most stumped. IRL, it seems I find all combinations from all-manual H, through sequential stick or paddles with manual clutch and rev-matching, to full-auto everything with paddles or stick.

What choices make the most sense for which cars with respect to what you would find being used IRL?

I should add, forget about what is fastest for the moment. I have this nifty new controller that can emulate all of these options, and I would just like to play around with using it as realistically as possible for the time being.

Thanks a lot for any help.

lyd

Seems to me that GTRs should be running a sequential gearbox, a clutch used only used for accelerating from a standstill and downshifting, no traction control and a steering lock of about 270-300 degrees, while F1 cars have a sequential box with paddle shifters, same-use clutch, slightly less lock and somewhat mild traction control.

The other formulas will be identical to the F1 car, the difference being a lack of traction control and a stick-shifter instead of paddles.

I naturally welcome any corrections to my 'educated' guesses .

I have all GTRs and the two little open-wheelers on sequential, the two big ones on paddle and all other on H-gate... But I neither use blip nor cut with any of them... Although I'm not sure about the FZ5... It could come with paddles, blip and cut...

My idea:

H shifter, manual clutch:
UF1, XFG, XRG, XRT, FXO, RB4, LX4, LX6, RAC, FZ5.... UF GTR, XF GTR agreement on these two?

Sequential shifter, manual clutch: (but can be shifted clutchlessly IRL)
MRT5, FOX

Sequential shifter, auto clutch:
FXO GTR, XR GTR, FZ50 GTR, FO8

Paddle shifter, auto clutch, auto cut & blip:
BF1

Scawen has said he will work on gearbox and clutch improvements soon and then he will also decide which GTR cars will have H or seq boxes. Linkie.

Bob Smith: UFR with semi-auto sequential?

Yeah I'm a bit undecided on the UFR and XFR. I think I'll make 'em manual.

Thanks for the responses, guys. I've been using manual on the FXR so far, and also on the RB4. Those are really the only two cars I've spent any serious time driving in LFS, so far. I was just using paddles for both with the DFP.

I think I'll try switching to the sequential stick and autoclutch on the FXR for a while and see how that goes.

Doesn't anything use a sequential trans but manual clutch for up and down shifts, a la my motorcycle? (Well, okay, I don't always *use* the clutch on my bike, but you get the drift.)

lyd

I think all of the cars would still have a clutch for pulling away and into first, but otherwise wouldn't be used. And on the sequential cars, in real life I'd consider them to use clutchless shifting (especially the MRT5 with its motorcycle gearbox), so using auto clutch make the driving experience as similar as possible.

Quote from Bob Smith :

My idea:

H shifter, manual clutch:
UF1, XFG, XRG, XRT, FXO, RB4, LX4, LX6, RAC, FZ5, UF GTR, XF GTR

Sequential shifter, auto clutch, auto cut:
MRT5, FOX, FXO GTR, XR GTR, FZ50 GTR

Paddle shifter, auto clutch, auto cut & blip:
FO8, BF1

I agree with everything except the MRT and FOX. I think both of these would be sequential shifters, but no auto clutch or auto cut. Motorcycles (MRT) can be shifted without using the clutch, but they still have a clutch. And I've never seen a motorcycle that had any sort of auto-cut for shifting.

I know it's on Scawen's list, but we really need a proper clutch model for all of this to work correctly. You should be able to shift (even the H-shifter cars) without using the clutch, but only if you'd be able to do so in real life. In other words, if you use rev matching to do clutchless shifts. Since there's no way to prevent the physical shifter from going into gear we need some sort of audible or visual feedback when you can't change gears.

Quote from Bob Smith :

My idea:

H shifter, manual clutch:
UF1, XFG, XRG, XRT, FXO, RB4, LX4, LX6, RAC, FZ5, UF GTR, XF GTR

Sequential shifter, auto clutch, auto cut:
MRT5, FOX, FXO GTR, XR GTR, FZ50 GTR

Paddle shifter, auto clutch, auto cut & blip:
FO8, BF1

I would think UFR and XFR would be sequential.

Yeah if it played a grating noise that would be great. I really miss the physical connection between shifter and clutch. But like I in my last post, I'm only suggesting auto clutch and auto cut for MRT5 since a) we can't get away with not clutch and b) revs don't spike on a bike when you change gear (although I don't ride, I've heard bikes speeding up the motorway slip road... oh how it makes my body tingle). So, while not accurate technically, in terms of the operations performed by the driver, it's most similar.

I'll edit my post to make it clearer.

Quote from lyd :

I think I'll try switching to the sequential stick and autoclutch on the FXR for a while and see how that goes.

I started using the sequential shifter when I first got my DFP and now I feel weird NOT using it . While it doesn't really have any mechanical feel to it it's a nice little addition and nonetheless adds to the experience.

I'm pretty sure that you could add somekind of effect at least with FF shifters when LFS doesn't want the gear to go in.

All it needs is insim info about the event when LFS "denies" the gear switch by not allowing the the gear to go in. And LFS basically denies this every time you try to shift without clutch, atm at least. And this info already exists as though outgauge you can get the gearbox in N,R,1,2,3,xxx -information. And when LFS doesn't allow the gearchange *bling* it goes neutral. All to do is to code up a very simple utility to send this gearbox info to the program controlling the FF of the shifter. Basically the FF shifter could just "freeze" in such cases, not allowing the gear go in. And then test it with FF shifter. For me it takes at least a week to code it and I don't even have FF joystic to test it. And it isn't even that simple, I guess

And it gets much harder with cluchless shifts...

Quote from Bob Smith :

Yeah if it played a grating noise that would be great. I really miss the physical connection between shifter and clutch. But like I in my last post, I'm only suggesting auto clutch and auto cut for MRT5 since a) we can't get away with not clutch and b) revs don't spike on a bike when you change gear (although I don't ride, I've heard bikes speeding up the motorway slip road... oh how it makes my body tingle). So, while not accurate technically, in terms of the operations performed by the driver, it's most similar.

I'll edit my post to make it clearer.

The thing is that you can shift pretty much any manual transmission car (or bike) without using a clutch, so long as you rev-match. So I would say that the MRT and FOX aren't special conditions at all. We just really need a clutch and gearbox that work properly. If the revs are matched you can shift without a clutch, if they're not you can't.

I think we need four classes of transmission types:

1) cars which use three pedals and an h-shifter.
2) cars which use three pedals and a sequential.
3) cars which use three pedals and a sequential, but also use auto-cut/auto-blip.
4) cars which use two pedals and paddles.

Your average joe road car would be the first class. Cars like the MRT would be the second class (it has a clutch and no auto-cut or auto-blip). GTR cars would be in the third class (you need the clutch to start from a stop but not to shift, and no rev matching is needed). Cars like the BF1 and sports cars like the F355, if we ever get such a thing, would be in the last group (only two pedals, no clutch, no rev matching needed, auto-cut and auto-blip handled by the car). Once it's decided which group each car fits into, the cars should be locked down to that type of drivetrain. But the cars should be set as one type and stay that way. Then the real factor becomes realistic clutch and transmission code, which I'm sure is no small task.

3.5) cars that use 3 pedals and paddles?

(with clutch only for starts)

just a side thing, what do you mean by the revs dont spike bit bob, just a bit confused.

and i agree with what put down so far, but the xfr and ufr should be, well id make them, sequential, and mrt should have a clutch, but also a quickshifter, for clutchless shifts and cutting revs on up/down changes, as thats what i would do if i was building or had built a cart like that. still have the option of using a clutch though.

I don't think it is this simple. Many cars we have in LFS can come come with few different kind of transmission in real life. The FZ50 being the scariest example. It could have H-pattern, sequental with paddles, or a fully computer controlled automatic transmission with very fast shifts etc.. Putting a very advanced gearbox into FZ50 would certainly make it faster but would it make LFS any mor realistic?

Imho, driving a H-pattern with paddles should mean that you are using a driving aid. Driving aid should always be slower than the "more realistic" option.

Quote from Bob Smith :

My idea:

H shifter, manual clutch:
UF1, XFG, XRG, XRT, FXO, RB4, LX4, LX6, RAC, FZ5.... UF GTR, XF GTR agreement on these two?

Sequential shifter, manual clutch: (but can be shifted clutchlessly IRL)
MRT5, FOX

Sequential shifter, auto clutch:
FXO GTR, XR GTR, FZ50 GTR

Paddle shifter, auto clutch, auto cut & blip:
FO8, BF1

Just one objection. F3000 (FO8) cars never had paddle shifters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sef6_25LGw

Quote from J.B. :

Just one objection. F3000 (FO8) cars never had paddle shifters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sef6_25LGw

GP2 and A1GP cars do.

But the FO8 is an F3000 car, not a GP2 car or an A1GP car, so that doesn't matter. The next question is where they h-shifter (I think so) or sequential (I hope not).

My guess would be that latest model Lolas (the ones that look exactly like the FO8) were sequential and the ones before probably H-shift. If you look closely at that youtube vid I think you can see Pizzonia downshifts two gears by pushing the stick forward twice.

And here's a list of the car models used in case anyone feels like doing some web research.