so on a normal fwd (built in last 15 years) would the speedometer read the average of the 2 wheel speeds during a wheelspin?
so on a normal fwd (built in last 15 years) would the speedometer read the average of the 2 wheel speeds during a wheelspin?
Yeah. I guess that's what all the technobabble boils down to.
Note that I said "Cars measure...", NOT "ALL cars measure..." there will always be exceptions as in 1/10000 cars use a different method.
Note that I said "Cars measure...", NOT "ALL cars measure..." there will always be exceptions as in 1/10000 cars use a different method.
Just lock this damn thread. Cars can measure any way you can think of. What's the big deal? They're all realistic ways of measuring speed.
If you don't like it, too bad. Life will go on. LFS will go on.
If you don't like it, too bad. Life will go on. LFS will go on.
Speedo
Hi admins (Scrawen) and other racers!
Can someone tell me can I off this new imprvement about speedmeter. I use digital speedo and I did'nt use any other testing pach, so I have used U pach. Now I'm instaled U30 and my speedo show me wrong speed. When I'm driving 225 km/h he shows 230 km/h. I know that real cars speedo lies to but I have used to thise speed and now it is a problem when it smow me some now speed. So I'm asking you can I turn this thing off somehow or I must drive now whit this kind of speedo? And in next paches will speedo lie too?
I have no other problems all other works perfect!
Thanks for help
Can someone tell me can I off this new imprvement about speedmeter. I use digital speedo and I did'nt use any other testing pach, so I have used U pach. Now I'm instaled U30 and my speedo show me wrong speed. When I'm driving 225 km/h he shows 230 km/h. I know that real cars speedo lies to but I have used to thise speed and now it is a problem when it smow me some now speed. So I'm asking you can I turn this thing off somehow or I must drive now whit this kind of speedo? And in next paches will speedo lie too?
I have no other problems all other works perfect!
Thanks for help
How do you know it's lying?
I'm guessing he drives the same setup the same way. If you've done that for a few months you can be pretty sure you are correct. Can anyone verify this?
It could also be he is viewing his replay with different patches.
P.S. Is it possible he has wheel spin at that speed, or wind blowing from behind?
And you might be doing 225km/h on the straights, but your tyres always have a slip angle. I don't know if the rolling circumference of the tyres changing with speed is also modelled (I'd guess not, but I'm normally wrong when I do that).
Both of these effects would cause a speedo to over-read.
Both of these effects would cause a speedo to over-read.
Maybe he was going 230 normally, and the speedo gave 225 with the new patch...
Could be true, if the differential has an accurate setting on only 1 setting with the tyre pressure or something...
quote bump
Could be true, if the differential has an accurate setting on only 1 setting with the tyre pressure or something...
quote bump
Why not provide an option to either use the new or the old method of measuring speed? 
That way people can choose for themselves what to use. Oh, and my real car, a turbo rwd car, measures speed from the gearbox. 
That way people can choose for themselves what to use. Oh, and my real car, a turbo rwd car, measures speed from the gearbox. well, I guess Generalizations are an ideal choice when talking to you z3e0c00l.
Anyone with such a ****ing stupid and downright dangerous statement as this in their sig doesn't deserve anything else:
what a load of Bull Shit. I only hope it's you that dies, not the poor innocent folks that you crash into.
Col
I've noticed bit the same thing. Like driving fox about 215.xxkm/h (looking the speedo), the real speed is something like 213.xx km/h. Assuming insim gives the true speed.
It doesn't hurt me, because it is like it works in real cars. Besides i watch rev meter mostly if i watch any meters at all.
It doesn't hurt me, because it is like it works in real cars. Besides i watch rev meter mostly if i watch any meters at all.
It is just more realistic. Real life car speedos show a little higher speed value than the actual speed is (was it something to do with law etc...).
About having 2 options for the speedo, the realistic one and the non-realistic one. All I have to say is, come on!
+357634867856984 for the realistic one. I'm happy with the more realistic one!!!11
About having 2 options for the speedo, the realistic one and the non-realistic one. All I have to say is, come on!
+357634867856984 for the realistic one. I'm happy with the more realistic one!!!11
--How do you know it's lying?--
I know becouse, I verify in ASF (Analise for Speed) and it shows me old speeds. This imrovment is good , but admins now don't change this in new pach, we will use to this now and let it stay like this like in real car.
Cool improvmen
, more realistic
I know becouse, I verify in ASF (Analise for Speed) and it shows me old speeds. This imrovment is good
, but admins now don't change this in new pach, we will use to this now and let it stay like this like in real car.Cool improvmen
, more realisticCol :
Well excuse me for thinking speed limits and distances should be based on braking distances and reaction times, I've got a motorbike, it stops a lot quicker than whatever is in front.
As for the inferences that my intellect is below, well at least below yours, perhaps you should check out some vehicle dynamics books from your local library, in which you will find the maths for braking distances, inertia, drag etc. At which point you can re-evaluate my previous sig against this new found knowledge. Admittedly a lot of my forum sigs are rants about other motorists, but when you do 100 miles plus on a daily basis, and people can't even hold their own lane round a rounder-bout, nor make use of their new found GPS system without staring at it too much of the time, even while joining roads via an on ramp, you get pretty sick of it, and seeing as this is a driving forum, quite a few people agree, or at least, have something to say about it also.
You go ahead and stick to the distances and velocities set up by testing an 80s Cortina, or whatever it was they used if you want the added safety margin, that's your choice. If you would like to continue this discussion, feel free to pm me, or perhaps repost in the off topic section if you would like the rest of the forum to see.
On Topic:
Realism has to be the paramount concern, this is a simulator, you could have a GPS speedo if you want to be accurate ignoring wheel speed, this typically reads 2-10 mph slower than the car speedo... something to do with the curvature in the earth and the inaccuracies in speedo technology.
Perhaps only digital mode for that though, and it would probably be a small box placed on the windshield with a sucker or something, I don't think very many cars have them built in!
I understand ignoring any information presented to you could be a mistake... but if you're going as fast as the car can go, speed at which the wheels are spinning, is not how fast the car is moving, tyres ALWAYS give their maximum traction as they begin to slip, whether that's longitudinal or lateral, at which point they may even be providing more traction than the downward force applied to them, so the wheel speed, especially given the effects of the differential and each wheel possibly moving at a very different speed due to traction differences on the road surface, could easily be 15% in any given direction, and not consistently so as you modulate the brakes/gas to maximize the traction circle...
Usually all this is happening and I'm already focused on my next brake point/apex, by the time you get to the apex of any given corner, you've done the damage if you've chosen the wrong line, knowing how badly you've done doesn't help unless you're trying to refine your line by making changes, but for that you'd want to use analyze for speed anyway because it gives such a superior illustration.
Well excuse me for thinking speed limits and distances should be based on braking distances and reaction times, I've got a motorbike, it stops a lot quicker than whatever is in front.
As for the inferences that my intellect is below, well at least below yours, perhaps you should check out some vehicle dynamics books from your local library, in which you will find the maths for braking distances, inertia, drag etc. At which point you can re-evaluate my previous sig against this new found knowledge. Admittedly a lot of my forum sigs are rants about other motorists, but when you do 100 miles plus on a daily basis, and people can't even hold their own lane round a rounder-bout, nor make use of their new found GPS system without staring at it too much of the time, even while joining roads via an on ramp, you get pretty sick of it, and seeing as this is a driving forum, quite a few people agree, or at least, have something to say about it also.
You go ahead and stick to the distances and velocities set up by testing an 80s Cortina, or whatever it was they used if you want the added safety margin, that's your choice. If you would like to continue this discussion, feel free to pm me, or perhaps repost in the off topic section if you would like the rest of the forum to see.
On Topic:
Realism has to be the paramount concern, this is a simulator, you could have a GPS speedo if you want to be accurate ignoring wheel speed, this typically reads 2-10 mph slower than the car speedo... something to do with the curvature in the earth and the inaccuracies in speedo technology.
Perhaps only digital mode for that though, and it would probably be a small box placed on the windshield with a sucker or something, I don't think very many cars have them built in!
I understand ignoring any information presented to you could be a mistake... but if you're going as fast as the car can go, speed at which the wheels are spinning, is not how fast the car is moving, tyres ALWAYS give their maximum traction as they begin to slip, whether that's longitudinal or lateral, at which point they may even be providing more traction than the downward force applied to them, so the wheel speed, especially given the effects of the differential and each wheel possibly moving at a very different speed due to traction differences on the road surface, could easily be 15% in any given direction, and not consistently so as you modulate the brakes/gas to maximize the traction circle...
Usually all this is happening and I'm already focused on my next brake point/apex, by the time you get to the apex of any given corner, you've done the damage if you've chosen the wrong line, knowing how badly you've done doesn't help unless you're trying to refine your line by making changes, but for that you'd want to use analyze for speed anyway because it gives such a superior illustration.
Yikes.
VSS on transmission:
http://autorepair.about.com/library/images/bl366a-lib.htm
http://autorepair.about.com/library/images/bl573a-lib.htm
http://experts.about.com/q/Chr ... eed-sensor-location-1.htm
http://www.classicoldsmobile.c ... ra/1894-speed-sensor.html
There's a billion more where that came from!
It may seem like on a FWD or a rear engine / rear drive (Porsche) that it's on the differential... But obviously there isn't a "drive shaft" when the differential is basically part of the transmission
. Technically it's always measuring the output speed of the transmission, which is the same as the input side of the differential - so look at it how you want. I would like to see a picture of front engined rear drive car with the VSS in the differential. Why on Earth would they waste money running something from the rear of the vehicle all the way up to the front when the info is available at the transmission?
Any slipping driven wheel will cause the speedo to rise since it's of course measured at the "drive shaft". It won't tell you how fast the wheel is spinning very accurately since the differential is spinning the one wheel far faster than it would spin both wheels (IE it thinks the "not spinning" wheel is the "inside one" and the "outside one" will spin much faster).
As far as I am aware, no road cars in recent history measure speed at a non-driven wheel.
The slight inaccuracy in high power:weight ratio cars is as Tristan said simply due to the slip ratio.
The more resistance the more pronouced this should be. At high speeds there is still high tractive effort but very little increase in velocity due to drag.
However expanding radius tires would cause the speedo to read slower than true speed; not higher (so it's not that!)
VSS on transmission:
http://autorepair.about.com/library/images/bl366a-lib.htm
http://autorepair.about.com/library/images/bl573a-lib.htm
http://experts.about.com/q/Chr ... eed-sensor-location-1.htm
http://www.classicoldsmobile.c ... ra/1894-speed-sensor.html
There's a billion more where that came from!
It may seem like on a FWD or a rear engine / rear drive (Porsche) that it's on the differential... But obviously there isn't a "drive shaft" when the differential is basically part of the transmission
. Technically it's always measuring the output speed of the transmission, which is the same as the input side of the differential - so look at it how you want. I would like to see a picture of front engined rear drive car with the VSS in the differential. Why on Earth would they waste money running something from the rear of the vehicle all the way up to the front when the info is available at the transmission? Any slipping driven wheel will cause the speedo to rise since it's of course measured at the "drive shaft". It won't tell you how fast the wheel is spinning very accurately since the differential is spinning the one wheel far faster than it would spin both wheels (IE it thinks the "not spinning" wheel is the "inside one" and the "outside one" will spin much faster).
As far as I am aware, no road cars in recent history measure speed at a non-driven wheel.
The slight inaccuracy in high power:weight ratio cars is as Tristan said simply due to the slip ratio.
The more resistance the more pronouced this should be. At high speeds there is still high tractive effort but very little increase in velocity due to drag.
However expanding radius tires would cause the speedo to read slower than true speed; not higher
(so it's not that!)My $50 Holux USB G-Mouse GPS reads MPH almost exact at highway speeds. My Civic has a crapped out dash, and the speedo reads 5 MPH faster than it should at every speed. How do I know? 1: Cops with radar guns. 2: YOUR SPEED MPH signs. 3: GPS. When all three other methods conclude that my speedo is reading 5 fast I think the speedo is reading 5 fast. I used my GPS in other vehicles as well, and the speed in MPH is spot on elsewhere.
Congrats on identifying my question and answering it with hog wash. I really haven't noticed any cars in LFS with more in common with the Delorean than having four wheels. I guess naming a car that many people will never see in thier lifetimes (I've seen two, sat in one.).
I'v actualy worked on many cars with different configurations. Rear wheel drives, Rear engine rear drives (Fiat mini bus thing from the 70's), front wheel drives. Every one I have worked on measures the speed at the transmission. To measure it at the dif would be a waste of cable, there would also be just that much more cable to get damaged.
Even my dads 89' 280zx measured the speed at the transmission, so measuring it at the dif is pointless, and measuring it at the front wheels is an Idea taken from older motor bikes, where the measuring device is attached to the front drum, and uses it to measure the RPM of the front wheel thus giving you the speed of the bike. (I know this because I took my friends 79' honda dirt bike apart.)
The only car I can think of right now that measured at the non-driven wheels was the Delorean (already mentiond). It measured from the Front left or right wheel, can't remember which side. but it was an RR setup so they decided it was the best way to get the speed. It measured slightly high when steering away from the measured side though, so that doesn't give you any better accuracy than the trans mounted ones.
I may only be 18 but I'm a grease monkey and love my cars.
The number of Speedos I'v ripped out of cars in enough to know what I'm talking about.
Even my dads 89' 280zx measured the speed at the transmission, so measuring it at the dif is pointless, and measuring it at the front wheels is an Idea taken from older motor bikes, where the measuring device is attached to the front drum, and uses it to measure the RPM of the front wheel thus giving you the speed of the bike. (I know this because I took my friends 79' honda dirt bike apart.)
The only car I can think of right now that measured at the non-driven wheels was the Delorean (already mentiond). It measured from the Front left or right wheel, can't remember which side. but it was an RR setup so they decided it was the best way to get the speed. It measured slightly high when steering away from the measured side though, so that doesn't give you any better accuracy than the trans mounted ones.
I may only be 18 but I'm a grease monkey and love my cars.
The number of Speedos I'v ripped out of cars in enough to know what I'm talking about.
And you dug up a 3 month old thread to tell us this bec ause...
What's wrong with 3 month old threads? If all the requests for wet weather and nos could stay in singular threads the world would be a happier place
Challanged accepted.
The RX7, to which the XRGT Turbo is similar, speedo cable is mounted in the transmisssion.
Frankly, does it really matter that much?
DragonCommando: Porsche do measure speed at the differential, but my experience is similar.. being that all cars I've owned/worked on have always had the cable running from the transmission.
(oops didn't realise its an old thread!)
well as we all know speed o meters are measured at the transmission ( well im a part time mechanic so im on the right track ) tho some cars May differ but its unlikly
Mi 1990's ex-car Opel Calibra 16v got speed signal by gearbox and had a analogic speedometer. Now I have a 1994's Opel Calibra Turbo 4x4 and this car get speed signal by ABS sensors in the wheels, and has electronic speedometer.
IMO the electronic speedometer with wheel signal it's far away more accurate than analogic speed signal by gearbox. With the turbo, when I get 220km/h by speedometer, GPS shows 216km/h. With my ex-16v when I got 240km/h by speedometer, GPS showed 220km/h
illepallWell, let me be very straight forward:
I like to look at the Speedo, it is useful to me. I play on a 17" notebook screen and I'm at least 50cm from the screen, with the analog i CANT read the speed, so if im leaving the pits with a car without pit limiter, i'll loose alot of time.
I know that for those playing on 29" monitors it is all right, but some mortals dont have those and would love to be able to consult the actual speed on the car, so i plead the Devs, put the Digital Speedo back in the game for all cars!
I like to look at the Speedo, it is useful to me. I play on a 17" notebook screen and I'm at least 50cm from the screen, with the analog i CANT read the speed, so if im leaving the pits with a car without pit limiter, i'll loose alot of time.
I know that for those playing on 29" monitors it is all right, but some mortals dont have those and would love to be able to consult the actual speed on the car, so i plead the Devs, put the Digital Speedo back in the game for all cars!
Analog speedo is more than you need when you would at least be able to read it. (I out myself now in not having tested the latest x34+ patches, so I can't say how they look now)
Basicly you only need some kind of (colored) mark where the pit limit speed is, similar to how its done here: http://www.classiccarfair.com/ ... 00secamg_dash_572x430.jpg
I still think that this would cure most problems... (dunno how it would be to code... )
Basicly you only need some kind of (colored) mark where the pit limit speed is, similar to how its done here: http://www.classiccarfair.com/ ... 00secamg_dash_572x430.jpg
I still think that this would cure most problems... (dunno how it would be to code... )
Spinoff : Speedo discussions
(85 posts, started )
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