This is once again one of those threads can't look without thinking, where are these smart people when I'm racing? Why almost everyone here in the forums knows how it should be done, but when you go to a public server, it's mayhem! I can remember when there were true gentlemen on the servers, and when the pack was spread out and the leader far away because of a midpack accident at T1, people only voted after the leader had. Sort of unwritten rule of respect. I don't vote for restart if I get wrecked, it can ruin the race for someone. I can support the vote if the leader and the guys ahead of me do. But it's ridiculous how some people vote restart every time they get taken out or join a server mid race. I think vote 10 seconds after joining, when the race is still on, should generate a instant kick.

Can't we make the OCC-server to unofficial LFS-forum server

I'm absolutely with you on that, Blackout. I very very very rarely vote for a restart if I'm wrecked. I'll just rejoin and practice behind the pack. If I'm the cause of any mayhem, I'll post "re?" in the chat after the "sorry!!!" and maybe vote just to get those I've crashed back in the race. If I'm the one out front and see mayhem behind me, I'll initiate a vote just because I don't want to run around all by myself. I've always had the thought that it's up to the leaders who have a good start and may have a good fight coming up with others up front to decide to restart. You don't restart just because you had a bad time, you must be considerate of others.

That being said, I often race with others that I've been racing with for years now. Thus, if an incident happens, I want everyone in the race because I really enjoy racing with these folks. Usually it is the 10 or less connection servers that I look for. More than 10 and the T1 incidents are not usually just unfortunate incidents and mistakes, but noob driving.

Quote from Joris :

First corner incidents happen pretty often. Not a big deal. What anoys me more is the fact that drivers losing the first corner roulette call for immediate restarts. The 2nd start is usually as messy as the first.

What's the point in restarting a 5 lap race? illepall The next race is on within a few minutes.

Drivers that caused the accident usually don't get much out of it. So a restart won't punish them.

Wouldn't starts be taken a bit more seriously if restarts wouldn't be socially accepted?

You are thinking my thoughts mate

They should make T1 gadget, it would be few electrods and in case of accident at t1 it would cause nice electric shock to those inpatient puppys that run to wreck in T1, that would be very nice

I try to stay out from T1 competition, usually I gain many places even I enter last to T1, sometimes however there is many enlighted racers that can race there and in that case I naturally push harder, but usually it is best to stay out from there.

It is because these puppys have not learned that true enjoyment of online racing is not in winning, but in tight close battle. It is bit same as some do have sex fast and quick, but other know that true fun takes time, of course some poor unlucky ones are not having at all

Quote from JTbo :

It is because these puppys have not learned that true enjoyment of online racing is not in winning, but in tight close battle.

Yeah, totally agree. When you have those easy wins and dominate the server, start first with no competition, it's boring as hell. I rather lose with 0.02 seconds after a good fight than race 5 laps alone in the lead. It can be so much more fun starting last and fight your way up. But unfortunately, especially the newbies, don't understand the great joy of a proper clean fight, they want to win, of course that's understandable because they don't have any, and therefore run for the T1.

Quote from Blackout :

Yeah, totally agree. When you have those easy wins and dominate the server, start first with no competition, it's boring as hell. I rather lose with 0.02 seconds after a good fight than race 5 laps alone in the lead. It can be so much more fun starting last and fight your way up. But unfortunately, especially the newbies, don't understand the great joy of a proper clean fight, they want to win, of course that's understandable because they don't have any, and therefore run for the T1.

I find myself often stalking behind slower car without any intention to overtake as if I would he would not catch me and I'm not even very fast, mostly 2 seconds from WR but still I'm having these kind of situations, I can't even imagine how bad it is with really fast guys, bored to death I think

However I think that when I do go slower making little close racing with slower racers they do learn and maybe also some learn to enjoy from racing too instead of winning, or then I'm dreaming again

Quote from JTbo :

I find myself often stalking behind slower car without any intention to overtake as if I would he would not catch me and I'm not even very fast, mostly 2 seconds from WR but still I'm having these kind of situations, I can't even imagine how bad it is with really fast guys, bored to death I think

However I think that when I do go slower making little close racing with slower racers they do learn and maybe also some learn to enjoy from racing too instead of winning, or then I'm dreaming again

LOL I do that alot especially on demo servers when S2 is dead (i.e. no road car action anywhere just fox and gtr :P) I find some people appreciate you racing closer and attempting to teach them some things or just have a good battle, others get pissed off the moment they find out you are actually much faster than them and leave the server but I have made quite a few friends too so it balances out

I long for the day when restarts are about as socially acceptable as a fart in an elevator.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Edit: Maybe we should have a T1 Brake Help driving aid.

I wouldn't normally suggest such an arcade-style feature, but I wonder what would happen if you didn't enable the collision detection until (say) one minute into the race. So accidents in T1 are impossible, as the cars will drive right through each other.

It's not that I seriously want this feature, as it would obviously ruin the sense of immersion, etc., but it's sad that something so clumsy could possibly solve the problem.

Or, trying to think laterally, what about spacing the cars further apart on the starting grid, thus trying to achieve greater separation at T1? And this setting could be server-specific, so you could go for a realistic grid like the current one, or a widely spaced "public server" style grid with car separations of 25m or more.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

It's also harder to brake for T1 if you start near the back than it is when you start near the front, because there are more cars infront of you and the braking point gets pushed further and further back. Because newbies are usually starting at the back, this means the least experienced drivers have the most difficult job in avoiding accidents at T1.

But this is always the problem. The endless restarts don't often teach anyone anything. A helpful suggestion is just as often met with ' f.u.' as it is with 'ohhhh...I see'.

When there is a huge turn one crash, some number of people from the back usually squirt through to the front, and end up being passed by the end of the lap - usually running off the road and into the people passing them out of ...shear panic .

While I'm in bitch-fest mode, I do have an actual point:
I don't understand why more servers running short races don't engage the no mid-race join rule !

If you do make it through turn one, you're frequently met at the start line next time around by someone with an uncanny ability to pull straight into traffic at the absolute most ridiculous instant possible. It's a stunning skill.

It's 5 laps. If you crash, you're done. No restart. No rejoin. How much more simple could it be ? It's only a matter of minutes. Watch other people manage to drive on the same track for several laps without bashing into each other. That's a realistic and productive teaching tool.

Still, all that said, there are a lot of skilled people playing LFS. They aren't always online, in the same place, but it still makes it worthwhile when you
do hook up.

Quote :

If you do make it through turn one, you're frequently met at the start line next time around by someone with an uncanny ability to pull straight into traffic at the absolute most ridiculous instant possible.

Hm, it would still happen even if midrace join was off because the people who would have crashed would shift-s to pits and rejoin. No midrace affects only spectators, not those who pit in (of course you could force spectate on shift-s with an insim script.. ).

Quote from thisnameistaken :

...I know I personally would do my best to clip right inside someone at the precise moment the collision detection kicked back in.

There has to be a smartarsed comment for me to make but I'd damned if I can think of one. You drove a blinder last night.

Quote from jtr99 :

I long for the day when restarts are about as socially acceptable as a fart in an elevator.



I wouldn't normally suggest such an arcade-style feature, but I wonder what would happen if you didn't enable the collision detection until (say) one minute into the race. So accidents in T1 are impossible, as the cars will drive right through each other.

It's not that I seriously want this feature, as it would obviously ruin the sense of immersion, etc., but it's sad that something so clumsy could possibly solve the problem.

Or, trying to think laterally, what about spacing the cars further apart on the starting grid, thus trying to achieve greater separation at T1? And this setting could be server-specific, so you could go for a realistic grid like the current one, or a widely spaced "public server" style grid with car separations of 25m or more.

I think your first suggestion is horrible, but it's good that someone trys to brainstorm.

since I am fairly new at this game I usally start within the 5th to 10th place range. at first I would go balls out and try to get the best spot out of turn one.
what I learned is to pick my line and be very careful. 4 or 5 other drivers might pass me but atleast 3 of them never make it out of the turn.

I also think the amount of restarts because of turn 1 is a cheeseball move on some. The times I have come out in the top 3 out of turn 1 i always have seen the big letters that say RESTART 3 - 2 - 1. I have to say this is the only let down i have with the game so far.

for the people that hit restart all the time - - - You can't win every race and if you have to restart until you do, your not a winner in my book. I've had more fun with a battle for 5th for 4 laps than knowing I'm going to finish 1st.

Race starts are FAR from easy, infact I think they are getting harder.
Not a fan of restarts, Groundhog Day anyone?

Great Film

John

This is like my last evening races on crowded server, getting hitted many many times

Progressive race length would be nice, if there is more ppl on server race length would be increased by defined amount, also would be nice too see race length on garage.

i once was in a race where some mid feild guys came out in the first corner. they parked up on the edge of the track and where voting to restart til around lap 4 of a 5 lap race. one word says it all. SAD

i mean fair enough, spectate if theres no way you can carry on, but dont try and ruin someone elses race by taking away a win just because your out of the running.

It's an odd thing but whenever I see a name from the forum I know they'll be good clean racers. Whenever we see these 'strangers' that trouble ensues. Restarts are disabled for 4 minutes either end of a race. Unless they are particularly thick they normally get the message. Just like real races, we'll 'red flag' if there is abnormal carnage, but generally it's a case of 'if you lose it, tough. get on with it. That applies to our admins as well.

depending on where i am in the pack my T1 Lap1 (aston club for example)braking zone can change from 100m (top 6 of pack normal braking zone) and 150m (back of pack being cautious) if i am in the middle of the pack i try to get to the inside because there's less chance of getting taken out by the "later" brakers, i brake slightly early (115m) at about 75% brake. this gives me more brakes if i need them.

probs already covered and i missed it. twas a good read tho

what annoys me the most about T1 is when you see people dart in using other cars as brakes. I also see crashes on the blackwood straight, ive lost count how many times i've said to myself "How???", must be lack of spacial awareness or something.

I tend to brake earlier, and go on the outside line so i don't get taken out. Watch about 6-7 cars get totalled and i've got my original position again if not 4-5 places up....