Back in the day (1986 - 1999) I played lots of flight games, being the obsessive little wannabe ninja-pilot that all of us are as young boys. My favourites went from Dambusters, Ace of Aces, Afterburner, Red Baron (then I had a little break where it was all about Doom, Quake and C&C) up to X-Wing vs TIE Fighter in about 1998. I played dozens of them, until I discovered sim-racing, got a wheel as a gift and never flew again. Until now!

I've got the flight bug back - specifically the part where you fly around and try to destroy other planes. So if you're a sim-pilot I want to know your opinions on the best combat flight sims out there (I'm also a big fan of the Red Bull air race, so something featuring aerobatics wouldn't be bad either). I saw a story on TV last night about M$ Flight Sim 10 and it got me thinking "why haven't I flown in so long?" Ideally I want to fly historic aircraft from WWI or WWII as well as X-Wings again However I wouldn't complain about hopping in an F-18 and smoking a few MiGs (or vice versa).

I have an older machine so an existing sim that has a good combat mod (or mode) available would be fine.
Also, I've found a few copies of X-Wing vs TIE Fighter as well as X-Wing Alliance on ebay but I'm not sure if they'll run on XP. Is there a way you can get those older Win 95/98 games to run on XP?

Anyway, I welcome your opinions/advice.

Cheers
H

Do yourself a favor and avoid "Lock On: Modern Air Combat". It's crap imho. Back when I played flight sims I was a big MS Flight Sim fan. I also liked an obscure WW2-era game called "Warbirds". I can't imagine MS Combat Flight Sim being too bad, although I've never played it.

Heh, Warbirds was much fun

Thanks, I'll have a look-see :up:

One of the most immersive ones to date that I've played was IL2 Sturmovik and it's sequel(s), expansions. Simply amazing.

Quote from xaotik :

One of the most immersive ones to date that I've played was IL2 Sturmovik and it's sequel(s), expansions. Simply amazing.

Yup, that and LOMAC are probably the best.

Dan,

When you absolutely positively gotta have the best, take no substitutes:
IL-2 Sturmovik series for WW2 battles
Falcon 4.0 Allied Force for modern combat

Notice that IL-2 is kind of "out of date". No chance to fly online against others with the old one.
The new IL-2 is called "Pacific Fighters". There are two massive add-ons available, "IL-2 Forgotten Battles" and "Ace Expansion Pack".

http://pacific-fighters.com/en/history.php

Tested X-Wing Alliance 3-4 years ago on XP, must be xpsp1, can´t remember exactly. It runs normal, without any glitches...

Btw: I´m looking for a good joystick with throttle-control + >10 buttons.
Any suggestions?

Good production joystick, you say? http://www.thrustmaster.com/eng/d_prd.php?p=T65&fam=6

I'm looking at getting a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro joystick. Under $50 with 12 programmable buttons and a throttle thingy.

IL-2 sounds like what I'm after! Thanks, I'll give it a shot :up:

Quote from VoiD :

Btw: I´m looking for a good joystick with throttle-control + >10 buttons. Any suggestions?

I had tried a saitek HOTAS set rather extensively some time ago at a pal's place (he's a retired airline pilot and Xplane nut so he went into the whole motions of building a cockpit, etc) - it was quite good. Solid, simple construction, felt heavy and had no deadzones, etc Buttons had a good feel to them too - no "play" or plastic creaks.

Oh yeah, and as I recall it didn't cost him a kidney and a left leg to get.

Go for IL-2 if WWII is your thing.
For modern jets, there's massive rivalry between Falcon 4.0 Allied Force and LO:MAC (even more than rfactor vs LFS !)

I know the Saitek X´s, bought a X-36 years ago. But since w2k its incompatible.
Anyway, the Hotas and the X´s are far out of my budget this year (need a new GFX-card too)...

The Logitech Extreme 3D technical looks interesting, but awfull designed (female-homosexual-stylish). I have to get a closer look in the shops...

Quote from danowat :

Yup, that and LOMAC are probably the best.

Dan,

I agree entirely. IL2 and LOMAC, the best two out there. I highly rate LOMAC, especially with the Flaming Cliffs addon

On top of that, I'd say that the Saitek X's are good value for money. The X45 is a brilliant piece of kit, and it can be bought for relatively cheaply now. The X52 is the step up, and is also very, very good.

X-Plane is a good alternative to MS Flight Sim, as well.

Well no sims out there it's anything near realistic, some have good features, but flight model it's a hard thing to replicate in a pc. Expecially modern jet fighters whose specs and avionics are still classified...
I let my father (military jet pilot and after air liner pilot) try some of them... he always shake his head and laugh...
However seems that companys try to improve more graphics than realistic features, most of the sims out there have better graphics than most of the real "training simulators" pilot uses; but in the end they have still to sell to the masses...
I've just tryed "Falcon 4.0 Allied Force", first impressions arent bad, but i just tryed that once... i wil let you know after some uses.
If you dont want to dogfight you may want to try the Ms flight simulator (not the combat ones) series (dont have it, i think the last i played was possibly 98?) for what i know they are ok, unless obviously you dont want to exploit the flight model, but in that case i dont think there is a flight sim that will satisfy you.
And i really enjoy LOMAC, it may not be reality, but it's damn fun!

Edit- i see you have an older pc, then maybe LOMAC it's a bit too much, an old good combat sim was "Su-27" (guess what you plane will pilot?) it's on most abandonware site and for the year they made it it was very good. And if i remember right they made also a sequel (Flanker 2 ?) and they are the same developers of LOMAC, but i'm not 100% sure, i may be wrong.

Quote from VoiD :

The Logitech Extreme 3D technical looks interesting, but awfull designed (female-homosexual-stylish). I have to get a closer look in the shops...

Agreed - whatever happened to simple design that doesn't look like a cyberpunk dildo?
Saitek's new Aviator (kinda overdone rear though) looks promising - cheapish too it seems.

Quote from Rubenz81 :

However seems that companys try to improve more graphics than realistic features, most of the sims out there have better graphics than most of the real "training simulators" pilot uses; but in the end they have still to sell to the masses...

Xplane is a winner in that department I think. Simulation is very good from what I hear from people who'd know and the graphics in the new version are really a huge step up from any previous versions (now includes 3d cockpits, etc). Not a coincidence quite a few small aeronautics companies have used it to simulate their prototypes, etc. It apparently does anything that flies, copters included.

Oh and i almost forgot "Orbiter", a free space/flight sim, continuosly updated and with tons of mods.
Orbiter main page:
http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/orbit.html
Orbiter huge add/on site:
http://www.orbithangar.com/index.php
A must have add/on: the Delta Glider III + OrbiterSound 3.0
http://orbiter.dansteph.com/

Quote from xaotik :

Agreed - whatever happened to simple design that doesn't look like a cyberpunk dildo?
Saitek's new Aviator (kinda overdone rear though) looks promising - cheapish too it seems.

boy that thing looks ugly
ill stick with my sidewinder 3d pro

as to sims i have nothing to add and can only confirm the greatness of xplane and orbiter

Quote :

I know the Saitek X´s, bought a X-36 years ago. But since w2k its incompatible.

It was also plagued by manufacturing problems and replacement units consistently arrived broken, until the customer (in this case my elder brother) gave up and just accepted the money was lost.

Quote from Shotglass :

boy that thing looks ugly

Yeah the rear part really baffles me - atleast it isn't full of shiny plastic neon bits which seems to be the fad.

Quote from Shotglass :

ill stick with my sidewinder 3d pro

Good idea, it was one of the last simple joystick designs that looked decent enough (although bulky as hell) not to have to hide it in a drawer in embarassment if you're not using it. Seems that the only ones left around with anything simple-looking are CH Products - pity about their pricetag.

LOMAC:Black Shark seems good to get, saw a vid of it on Google and i wanted to get it... id suggest that

Quote from xaotik :

Seems that the only ones left around with anything simple-looking are CH Products - pity about their pricetag.

and the hotas of course ... its not exactly simple but at least it looks classy ... everything about it shows that its a high quality product

Quote from xaotik :

Not a coincidence quite a few small aeronautics companies have used it to simulate their prototypes, etc. It apparently does anything that flies, copters included.

I think the Aerospace dept. at our uni uses X-Plane to simulate things they've designed.

X-Plane is a great sim. It does have a kind of combat mode, but it's not really dedicated to that. You can fly around and shoot other planes, but it just shuts the engines down when they get hit; they don't blow apart and crash and burn. It's still fun though, the chase itself is what it's about for me Oh, I'll just quote x-plane's site (Caps are his, not mine, sorry):

Quote :

NOTE: X-PLANE DOES NOT SIMULATE DEATH OR DESTRUCTION, SO X-PLANE IS NOT REALLY A COMBAT SIMULATOR. TO AVOID THE VIOLENCE OF A COMBAT SIMULATOR, BOMBS HAVE NO EFFECT ON ANYTHING ON THE GROUND AT ALL... THEY DETONATE AND SMOKE SO YOU CAN SEE WHERE THEY HIT, BUT THEY DO NOT ACTUALLY DAMAGE ANYTHING ON THE GROUND. AS WELL, AIRPLANES ARE NOT DESTROYED BY BEING HIT. IF YOU ARE HIT WITH A MISSILE, GUN, OR LASER OF ANOTHER PLANE, YOU WILL PUFF-SMOKE AS IF YOU WERE IN A TRAINING EXERCISE, AND YOUR ENGINES WILL BE SHUT DOWN TO LET YOU KNOW YOU ARE HIT. THIS OCCURS BOTH WHEN PLAYING AGAINST THE ARTIFICIALLY-INTELLIGENT PLANES, AND YOUR FRIENDS IN MULTIPLAY MATCHES. YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS CAN NOW ENGAGE IN MULTIPLAYER COMBAT IN X-PLANE IN ANY AIRCRAFT YOU CAN DESIGN, WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT HITS AGAINST YOUR FRIEND WILL SHUT HIS ENGINE DOWN AND CAUSE HIM TO PUFF SMOKE, MUCH LIKE A 'RED-FLAG' STYLE TRAINING EXERCISE WHERE FRIENDS COMPETE IN AERIAL COMBAT, BUT ACTUAL DESTRUCTION OR DEATH DOES NOT OCCUR. WE WANT TO SIMULATE THE COMPETITIVE ASPECTS OF AERIAL COMBAT, MUCH LIKE IN A RED-FLAG EXERCISE, WITHOUT SIMULATING THE DESTRUCTIVE ELEMENTS.

That being said, it's a wonderful sim with a great flight model. It's even been certified by the FAA for real flight training :o