Quote from Woz :

Drifters get through loads of tires and they can afford this and the cost of modding a car etc so why not the $60 for an hour on the local track so they don't put others at risk?

My thoughts exactly...
I have nothing against a vibrant drifting community in LFS, infact I think it is great But what I do object to is people not taking the risks of any motor sport seriously and trivulising the consequences of such behaviour on public roads, I would and have objected just as strongly about people racing on public roads too.

As to the OP question, I think it is a minority of people that don't like drifting in LFS, most of us racers are quite comfortable about the idea of a drift community At the end of the day we have one thing in common we all LOVE cars

Quote from Christofire :

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this one left me completely puzzled
im an engineer (well almost) and my other carreer options were to either get into astrophysics or astonomy ... im a scientist at heart and one that doesnt get art especially not contemporary art
yet i consider myself a drifter these days

i guess im just taking your choice of words to literally

Quote from Shotglass :

i guess im just taking your choice of words to literally

You wouldn't be a scientist if you didn't.

As to the rest, I'm glad I could put a nice spin on it for you.

Quote from Christofire :

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On the nose, I'd say.

Shotglass, it's a similie and an analogy.. just a means to make sense of something by encouraging an understanding of one thing through a different comparison. Two things being similar/different, like (or in a similar way to) two other things being similar/different.

My analogy was going to be the North/South divide, where the southerners think the Northerners think they're better than the southerners, whereas in fact the Northerners KNOW they're better than the southerners

Umm.. btw.. this is in jest, but if you were British you'd be able to lift the same sense of "cultural differences" invoked in that analogy and drop them on the race/drift comparison.

Quote from Hankstar :

Hell, there are a pack of wankers in my office, right at this second! [...] Drifting is what a racer does when he fcuks up

Ha! That's funny, because whenever the wanker-of-a-boss'-son is in my office watching me LFS and I fxck up and slide, he's always like, "wow dewd kewl drift!1" Makes me want to punch him in the face :o I don't give a piss about drifting one way or another, except for the wannabe ricer F&F lamos that make the entire thing seem completely stupid. As long as they either stay in their drifting through gears servers or off the public roads, don't try to claim that they're racing, and don't try to talk to me, I don't really care.

Quote from Christofire :

[Science vs. Art]

Good one, though I'm still partial to the Speed skating vs. Figure skating...

So I guess to answer the original question, blame the wanker poseurs that fxck it up for everyone else.

Quote from Electrik Kar :

http://video.google.com/videop ... &q=drifting&hl=en

dunno what your trying to prove, but that video is from a movie being filmed. The Dukes of Hazzards movie. That was all on set, everything was staged. Nice one

The thing is, with a big Hemi-laden Yank-tank like the General Lee (a '69 Dodge Charger) you have to drift around corners because they're not designed to slow down and turn like normal cars Having said that I'd still sell my mum for one

As an aside, I posted that same "Dukes" vid (can't watch at work but I'll assume it's the same) a while back when LFS was still at RSC, just as a bit of fun and to show some nicely controlled drifting. Some people completely misunderstood and thought I was having a go at drifters, other people thought it was real (because they didn't know the car) and flamed me about that, a couple of others just acted like tools. In the end it got a bit silly, a bit out of hand and I got a bit over it. I just re-read it and it blew my arse away how pissy some people got! Including me! And that smartarse still hasn't posted his Jaguar drifting video Somehow, I came away from that without a chip on my shoulder about drifters

I don't enjoy drifting, but that's just one perspective. As long as drifters aren't trying to ruin what is already an obvious 'racing server', what would be the issue ? I'm sure they feel the same way about racers joining their server. Live and let live. Just keep the invisible force field up in between.

Quote from StanleyCarter :

I don't see drifting helped to improve anything in racing though, but one thing for sure is that racers that has drifting background rarely spun as they're too comfortable with catching slides.

(i dont think i need to tell you what u allready know,its just for the guys that dont know crap in here(and they are a LOTTTT HAAA)

It doe's... in the correct circustances,for an advaced driver it may do not(in some extreme cases like me and Kazama (watching HV-AT2 lol)it can make it worse,sometimes i just enter the corner too fast or gas too much at its exit,too used) but for a begginer, it certainly can do,they can learn faster the limits of theyr cars, and also learn to don't panic when the rear starts to slide,it also has some many other benefits related to that, i dont think it helps at anything for LFS drivers(no fear factor)but in real life, I know it does.

Quote from Christofire :

You wouldn't be a scientist if you didn't.

shut your piehole artboy

Quote from SamH :

Shotglass, it's a similie and an analogy.. just a means to make sense of something by encouraging an understanding of one thing through a different comparison. Two things being similar/different, like (or in a similar way to) two other things being similar/different.

im aware of that
it just got me thinking what if i took that word by word

Quote :

Umm.. btw.. this is in jest, but if you were British you'd be able to lift the same sense of "cultural differences" invoked in that analogy and drop them on the race/drift comparison.

well im from franconia and i know of no other place where _all_ neighbouring cities/towns/villages are hostile towards each other .. so i can relate to that

The only thing I have against drifting is the fact that I can't filter out "drift" in the server list. I'll look at a combo and think, "yea, that's a good one" and join without looking and before realizing it is a drift server.

I like drifting in LFS. It's been fun and has brought some new aspects to my racing - and therefore helped me to do better in races.

- Car control in general. I bet nobody can deny this point.

- I remember a race from AS North Rev with LX6, when it was faster to go (well, with my set atleast) around the 3 last hairpins drifting with handbrake than trying not to drift and have that horrid understeer.

- Nowadays I also use the handbrake quite often in FWD racing, it can really save you if you for example miss your braking, or position to a rival so that getting the car sideways is the only way to avoid contact.

- Defensive driving. XRT drivers know this It's much harder to get past a car thats going sideways.

Quote from Thommm :

Secondly a good racer won't drift or whatsoever if he almost goes off.. TBH it would be the last thing that comes up to my mind

Dunno if I can call myself as a 'good racer', but I certainly use several techniques adapted from drifting in my racing. Not normally of course, but as a 'last resort', when the car would otherwise go off or I'd be slower if I didn't do it.

Sorry guys, but it is.. i dont like drifting.. but you missed the fact, IF DONE CORRECTLY.. meaning entering and exiting a turn perfectly with alot of speed.. then yes.. and whoever spoke about alonso.. thanks man.. drift an f1 car, good on ya..

If racing is always faster than drifting, how come rally cars don't use standard race technique?

I would imagine this is because they have a lot of power, and not very much traction, and no serious downforce loss at big slip angles.

As such they can use the extra power available to them to keep the car on the road.

Does this mean if we threw 600hp in the RB4, or XRT, that drifting would become the fastest way round the corner?

I sometimes drift when my tyres are too hot.
In those situations drifting skills come in handy. And I believe that is how it started in Japan with those sharp corners on cliffs. People lost control on wet roads and quickly learned how to gain control.

Drifting is more open minded, everybody has it's own style. There are no clear rules on how to drift.

In racing there is still something about style but not that much since you want to go from A to B as fast as you can and there isn't much choise how to do it.

Everybody can drift but very few make it into an art form.

Quote from kurent :

And I believe that is how it started in Japan with those sharp corners on cliffs. People lost control on wet roads and quickly learned how to gain control.

Thats not how I believe it started, I read that its was down to the fact that the first generation of GTR's in the 60's,the Hakasuka GTR, couldn't actually go round corners very well, and the only way they could get them to go round corners was to drift them, hence drifting started.

Dan,

Quote from z3r0c00l :

If racing is always faster than drifting, how come rally cars don't use standard race technique?

Racing (meaning no oversteer at corners) isn't always the faster way.
like you said yourself, traction is the key.

Quote from z3r0c00l :

Does this mean if we threw 600hp in the RB4, or XRT, that drifting would become the fastest way round the corner?

Well, drifting (powersliding) is the fastest way through some corners already with current bhp. But you could throw 1000bhp in them and 'racing' style would still be the fastest in some. Traction (or grip, whatever) is the key.

Lets just cut the BS for a minute, why not have a race, a few drifers and a few racers, that will sort it out once and for all

Quote from z3r0c00l :

If racing is always faster than drifting, how come rally cars don't use standard race technique?

Actually the newer rally cars don't drift anymore into corners. I've got some finnish magazines with articles on that and the reasons why it's like that...

Quote from Yaamboo :

Actually the newer rally cars don't drift anymore into corners. I've got some finnish magazines with articles on that and the reasons why it's like that...

Did I already mention that traction is the key?
Modern WRC cars are starting to have enough grip/traction that 'racing' style is faster in some occasions.

Ive seen drifters and racers going at it (video). Drifters pissed all over the racers.. and like both was talented, no mistakes.. lines were perfect..
Thats where i get my theroy from. Plus when you think about it, powersliding into a turn youll be entering faster, and if the line is taken 100% correct, you should be able to exit faster, hence going faster on the turns, equal on straights, and your faster lapping.. but most drifters (not being rude, prove me wrong) cant keep up with racers..


But ehh.. id love to see an online LFS race drifters v racers .

Quote from aoun :

Ive seen drifters and racers going at it (video). Drifters pissed all over the racers.. and like both was talented, no mistakes.. lines were perfect..
Thats where i get my theroy from. Plus when you think about it, powersliding into a turn youll be entering faster, and if the line is taken 100% correct, you should be able to exit faster, hence going faster on the turns, equal on straights, and your faster lapping.. but most drifters (not being rude, prove me wrong) cant keep up with racers..


But ehh.. id love to see an online LFS race drifters v racers .

Powersliding into turns is faster? How does that work? It only means you'll need to brake earlier. Doesn't it strike you as a bit odd that professional racing drivers appear to be unaware of what you are saying?

Which video is it you are referring to? I've watched a lot of Best Motoring videos, the drift bible is good to watch whether you are a drifter/power-slider yourself or not. The intentional powersliding all stops once they start trying to find out how fast a car really is though.

lmao!!

You dont know HittiS, that cheater could have drifted to catch that
:P :P :P


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i donno if powersliding into turns is the word.. but say a 90 degree turn.. im not sure but, racing, say we are breaking at 20m before turn (lets just say).. we took the apex perfect and exit great.. no lockup.. done..

go to drifting, we could kick out at about 25-30m, with abit less break, hit the apex and straigten up before we go to the outside of the turn exit..

wouldnt that be faster.. but thats just one turn.. theres plenty of turns in a race.. i know you think im dumb.. but i guess you dont understand.. in a lap, a drifter can be faster and vice versa (with same talent levels) but in a whole race, a racer because of tyres.. thats why pro teams dont drift.. derr...

but im talking about faster, not how many laps..