Quote from thisnameistaken :

aoun - If you think it's faster to drift, then why not try getting somewhere close to a world record lap on one of the more popular drift circuits? Or if you're not up to it, see if any of your drifter friends want to have a go.

I'd like to see how fast the fastest drifter can get around BL1R actually.

If you wernt stupid, you may have noticed, that i dont like drifting.. hence i have no "drifter friends" HENCE i cant drift..

and if you also read, i said.. not just anyone can drift faster (and most on lfs couldnt no offence)..

Quote from aoun :

i donno if powersliding into turns is the word.. but say a 90 degree turn.. im not sure but, racing, say we are breaking at 20m before turn (lets just say).. we took the apex perfect and exit great.. no lockup.. done..

go to drifting, we could kick out at about 25-30m, with abit less break, hit the apex and straigten up before we go to the outside of the turn exit..

wouldnt that be faster.. but thats just one turn.. theres plenty of turns in a race.. i know you think im dumb.. but i guess you dont understand.. in a lap, a drifter can be faster and vice versa (with same talent levels) but in a whole race, a racer because of tyres.. thats why pro teams dont drift.. derr...

but im talking about faster, not how many laps..

I don't think you are dumb. I just don't see how the way you describe is faster, you're slowing down much more slowly and earlier, the rear tyres are hardly gripping at all, reducing the overall grip on the road. A car set up for maximum corner speed will have a neutral balance, front and rear wheels will lose grip at the same time. You describe a normal clean exit, but the difference is that a normal racing driver will reach the point where you switch from drift to normal much more quickly. Whilst you are initiating your drift he's not even on the brakes yet.
This doesn't mean that racing drivers never break traction, but they don't brake early in order to kick it sideways.

Taking rally driving is a really bad example. Yes, drifting is faster, depending on the surface and on the situation. If you have a tarmac rally, then you'll see almost none to very low angle drifting, except hairpins. But if it's on gravel, then going sideways and spinning the wheels has the benefit of digging into the surface faster, removing the loose gravel to reach the hard ground. If you were to "grip" around that corner, you'd drive on the gravel and lose heaps of traction.

On tarmac in general, the fastest way is to use the maximum traction of your tyres - which is a slight four-wheel drift where all tyres are at their optimum slip angle, which is like something of 4-8°. If any of your tyres is going over that peak, you're not necessarily losing overall grip, but you simply waste some of the grip by using it to go in the wrong direction. This four-wheel drift can also hardly be called drifting, as the angle is so small you'd get laughed out of every drift competition. I'd call drifting everything that is over this optimum slip angle, and by that definition there is no way drifting is faster on tarmac (other than tight hairpins that we don't even have in LFS).

*repeats what 3781023 other people have already said in this thread*

Meh mabye i am wrong.. when it comes to GTR's and F1 cars, ofcourse not, racing is much faster.. but more with stocks and street legal cars i think drifting would be faster.. ive seen it.. others agree with me.. but majority dont.. i find it hard to believe but meh...

and something i should have made much more clear.. i never ment kicking out the rear by 1080 degrees .. ment more sliding in and out.. drifting, but not to the max, but basicly theres them stylish drifters, and the faster ones.. im talking about faster ones..

Quote from aoun :

Meh mabye i am wrong.. when it comes to GTR's and F1 cars, ofcourse not, racing is much faster.. but more with stocks and street legal cars i think drifting would be faster.. ive seen it.. others agree with me.. but majority dont.. i find it hard to believe but meh...

I'll have to side with the non-believers on this one, kid. If it trully was the fastest we'd see it in races - if not in races, then in qualifying sessions at least. And in LFS we'd see it done in hotlaps - I'm sure drifters would love to put that up as a prize.

As said thousands of times before, drifting and racing are two totally different things. What people around here have a beef with is the mainstream driver-wanna-be stereotype mentallity.

well i guess ive been proven wrong.. but i still believe myself.. ive taken this whole topic a page off topic..

---

i forgot what the topic was about

Quote from aoun :

Thats where i get my theroy from. Plus when you think about it, powersliding into a turn youll be entering faster, and if the line is taken 100% correct, you should be able to exit faster, hence going faster on the turns, equal on straights, and your faster lapping.. but most drifters (not being rude, prove me wrong) cant keep up with racers..

you try that...

You will loose sooooo much speed while sideways that you wouldn't believe it, but if it's so much faster, go for it. Braking is a better way of slowing down than sliding, but it still slows you down, even though your using the throttle

Quote from aoun :

If you wernt stupid, you may have noticed, that i dont like drifting.. hence i have no "drifter friends" HENCE i cant drift..

and if you also read, i said.. not just anyone can drift faster (and most on lfs couldnt no offence)..

So basically, you're talking shit....

Seriously, not 1 WR has been "drifted". It's a bit silly of you to make such bold statements with your only back up being that "most LFS drifters can't drift faster around a circuit than a racer". Seems blatantly obvious to me that that's because it just isn't bloody possible!

I encounted someone who thought they could wipe the floor clean with some racers while he drifted. Now this guy had never seen any of us race before and most of us were regular competitive racers and we totally flogged him, yet he was still in denial and claimed he was still the best and faster, and another 5 times we flogged him, apart from those who he took out during his "erratic" sideways moments. Eventually we had enough fun and this guy as he was starting to really shit everyone off so we booted him.

Now you might think I'm a dorifto hater but I actually quite enjoy the odd drift session. It's just that guys like the one I have mentioned and others like certain quoted members of these forums ruin it for those drifters who have common sense, respect and dignity. The racing scene is no different, it just attracts less arrogance so it's not as previlant. I don't judge the drifting community differently as I judge the racing community, I judge the dickhead behind the wheel.

Round and round we go, closer to personal insult swapping where the thread gets closed. Hope we've all got it out of our system for another month.

why compare speed...???
drifting is not about speed! if you wanna go fast the best thing to do is avoid drifting.
i think this "hateing drifters" thing is only happening in forums...
i drift most of the times, but sometimes i like to race too, and i've never been kicked from any race server for being a drifter. the only thing you have to do is race on raceing servers and drift on drift servers, and nobody would argue with you.

peace guys

enforcer, all i tried to say is that i think if done correctly, drifting can be faster.. is there a problem with that?

I dont think your a drift hater, from what ive read in your first post.. your trying to say, that its just simply not possible and that im all bullshit.. understandable .


So how do you judge me then? am i a dickhead too..?

That's my point... it's better to make it personal (without too much emotion ofcourse it's not the end of the world), don't generalise and try to defend your views by sticking shit over an entire community. Basically, if you respect me on the track I'll respect you, whatever it is you choose to do.

Quote from aoun :

enforcer, all i tried to say is that i think if done correctly, drifting can be faster.. is there a problem with that?

I dont think your a drift hater, from what ive read in your first post.. your trying to say, that its just simply not possible and that im all bullshit.. understandable .


So how do you judge me then? am i a dickhead too..?

I challenge you too a race then, pick a car, pick a track, I'll race, you can drift, we'll see who wins, I am at work ATM, so I can only use mouse, but I would be prepared to have a go for a laugh

lol danowat, remember.. i cant drift for nuts even if my life depended on it.. geezz ill remember next time ill keep my belifs to myself..

Quote from aoun :

enforcer, all i tried to say is that i think if done correctly, drifting can be faster.. is there a problem with that?

I dont think your a drift hater, from what ive read in your first post.. your trying to say, that its just simply not possible and that im all bullshit.. understandable .


So how do you judge me then? am i a dickhead too..?

Possibly.

Fair enough though, if that is what you think. All I ask for is your reasons behind that view along with some evidence to back it up. Instead you call someone an idiot (or something) for asking such a question.... that makes you a dickhead. Admitting you made a mistake might help you retain your dignity.

yes well mabye i shouldnt have called the person stupid.. assumed he was having a go at me.. and i said 20 times that i cant drift, thats just what i think..

Quote from aoun :

well i guess ive been proven wrong.. but i still believe myself.. ive taken this whole topic a page off topic..

---

i forgot what the topic was about

You are on topic I would say because this is a common misconception that is so common in the drift community and gets argued until they are blue in the face.

You might wish to believe yourself but its basic physics. Once beyound the optimal slip you are throwing away energy. Heat is lost energy and drifting generates lots of heat in your tires.

The heat generated by drifting will also push your tires past optimal temps, this means less grip which means more sliding and so more heat so less grip.... Until.... Bang

The energy that heats the tires is lost power that is better used making you go fatser. Drifting looks more exciting and so many "feel" it should be faster but you will find your fastest times will come when everything feels in control and calm. Every correction or countersteer you make translates to lost speed and these all add up.

As others have said watch some WR laps, does not matter the car or track you will find there is a distinct lack of drifting going on.

Quote from Woz :

At no point do I say every drifter is like that. I just pointed out WHY drifters get a bad name and that there is a huge friction against them.

No, Not all drifters are the same and I like to drift in LFS from time to time BUT it is not a small minority that appear to act like morions.

I think that most of the "proper drifters" don't even bother to post at official LFS forums often. Why would you want to post somewhere, where you aren't tolerated? Besides, when "proper drifters" actually post they don't call themselves drifters and so they are recognized as normal LFS users, that is racers. Not to mention that most of them race anyway. People usually recognize drifters at forums when:

a) They post a video/edited screenshot/skin etc.
b) They post a drift team thread.
c) They act like idiots and dumbasses - that would be the biggest group here. And those often are demo players. Stupid threads and posts also tend to be more popular.. For some reason. That ofcourse makes those people stand out more from the crowd..

On the other hand, I have to say that nowadays drifting community is not a community I would like to see or the community I remember from the past. It will be probably best if I stop writing here. Not a good idea to poo in your own nest.

Quote from DjeMz :

In Australia driftin is growing so huge the local police have frantikly launched numours counter mesures to prevent/punish 'street drifters'.

I'm not especially patriotic, but you are seriously embarrasing me as an Australian. This is such an incoherent, misleading and false series of spelling mistakes. Even if it was true, how does it back up your point (if there in fact was one)?

You sir, may be one of the reasons drifters are stereotyped and frowned upon by many racers, myself included.

Quote from aoun :

enforcer, all i tried to say is that i think if done correctly, drifting can be faster.. is there a problem with that?

I dont think your a drift hater, from what ive read in your first post.. your trying to say, that its just simply not possible and that im all bullshit.. understandable .


So how do you judge me then? am i a dickhead too..?

dont say your beliefs are neccesarily the only truth then - if done correctly, ie suiting the slip angle of the car, then it will be faster, but you'll barely be able to see the slide - D1 tail out drifting IS NOT FASTER and is only used to keep the RPM up, ie Rally hairpins (keeping the turbo spooled) or when you have a low HP car (ie AE86!)

Quote from farcar :

I'm not especially patriotic, but you are seriously embarrasing me as an Australian. This is such an incoherent, misleading and false series of spelling mistakes. Even if it was true, how does it back up your point (if there in fact was one)?

You sir, may be one of the reasons drifters are stereotyped and frowned upon by many racers, myself included.

I can drift, but only because i've learnt to control oversteer/understeer. Its not a trick i use, because in my view its just to show off to the ladies (though i think quite a few would leave finger nail marks in the dashboard). People drifting on public roads....I mean, do they have a death wish?

As to IRL drifting, i have no intention of pulling my handbrake cable and having to tighten it :P

So much better driving fast with a nice line, much more impressive in my eyes. I'd have to agree that drifting is just for a bit of fun tbh.

I've been into drift for a long time .. Before the the tokyo drift movie ..

I've tested out many racing sims .. LFS S2 has been the love for drifting for me .. It also helps you with tweaking the chassis of your car and teaches you good tuning techniques ..

I also Drift My Nitro RC car

Quote from Shotglass :

shut your piehole artboy

I'm sorry, I know this is from page 4, but I can't let slander like that go without response. You couldn't be further from the truth. I've got papers proving it and everything!

Around here we have a kart track that is a big flat concrete grid. There is one diagonal bit of road, but for the most part it is 90 degree corners. They change the layout every week. The only way to get around it quickly is to slide sideways. A bit of brake, a bit of positive lock, the kart tips, then flat on the go button and full aluminum-to-aluminum *clank* opposite lock and off you go - steering with your right foot. Most people don't have that Gillesesque feel to go full lock and steer. The axiom of the day is still "You never, ever go to full lock in a kart." In this case that is a loosing principle. But man is it fun to actually have a track where racing is name of the game, but getting sideways is the only way to win the race. (I can drive a kart and real car like this all day long. It's so easy for me. But in LFS I struggle, not sure what the problem is exactly.)

So... is this drifting?

NO!!!! It is not DRIFTING!!!! It's driving SIDEWAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK, here it is: You have what we call a combi corner, or double apex. Two lefts, say. Close enough together that they can be taken as a single turn. The first one has a larger radius than the second. (Think Spoon Curve at Suzuka.) If you optomize the first corner you end up going far too quick for the second. If you try to use the short straight as a braking zone for the second you end up waisting potential speed in the first. Ultimately, the best approach is to drive into the first too quickly and allow the car to slide, all four wheels, to scrub off speed. Thus making the first corner the braking zone for the second. All four wheels sliding sideways at once. Steering with both positive and negative throttle. (Think T1 at Mexico City.)

Or how about this, at South City Long get in your FOX and literally aim your car AT THE ARMCO on every corner. The trick of course is to go so quickly that you break loose just after turn in and slide past the armco by an inch. Then drift (all 4 wheels) out to within an inch of the exit armco.

Now *that* is drifting.