No, I clearly said that it's not any better and calling it bio is discrase because it's not that enviromental friendly at all.
The point of biofuels, biodieselethanol at the moment, is of course that a part of it is "natural" and from nature. The ethanol is made and planned to be made from grain or such, as normal alcohol, and it's idea on global warming and emission side is that when it's burnt it will release the same amount of carbon dioxide that the plant had used from the air to grow. At this point all sounds nice and very tree and baby seal hugging friendly, I agree, and that's the image sold for the consumers by the happy happy green oil companys. But when you think what is needed to grow that grain to make the ethanol, the furtilizers, tractors, machines, shipments, and after all that stuff, I think (and not just me, some more educated people are with me too
) the carbon dioxide balance is not on the good side. I'm mostly uppset because of this because our hypocrite government with it's "substandable developtment enviroment program" has been a sheep and jumped on the biodiesel wagon instead of making something for making the fuels consumption smaller by lowering taxes on better cars- Biodiesel is not the answer for global warming like they might be selling it for you, the hydrogen is the future but unfortunately it's sabotaged by the big boys with oil stained hands.I'd rather discuss about this at the off-topic section, it's a nice topic but doesn't have much to do with LFS.
Whats the point?
Who cares?
This forum section is getting more ridiculous every day, most of suggestions are useless
Who cares?
This forum section is getting more ridiculous every day, most of suggestions are useless
*holds hands up and says you're right!
Goddamn it I was so pig-headed, as soon as I seen you stating "Ethanol releases more carbon dioxide than other fuels when burnt", I start lmao, thinking that as a vapour it could'not contain CO2 which is obviously a good gas cos plants eat it, but it does.Some good shtuf isn't it ethenamol:shaun: Chemical Properties of Ethanol
Combustion of Ethanol
Ethanol burns with a pale blue, non luminous flame to form carbon dioxide and steam.
C2H5OH + 3O2 ==> 2CO2 + 3H2O
Ethanol
Oxidation of Ethanol
Ethanol is oxidised
with acidified Potassium Dichromate, K2Cr2O7, or
with acidified Sodium Dichromate, Na2Cr2O7, or
with acidified potassium permanganate, KMnO4,
to form ethanal, (i.e. acetaldehyde).
I don't think petrol and diesel produce CO2 aswell tho'
Yep the big oil co's have too much say
Doesn't belong here tho, OT, GO Ethanol
Those of you who think the purpose of Biofuel is a marketing ploy for the 'less emissions' thing are way off base. It's name comes from the fact that it uses organic product, not chemicals (to the point of normal diesel or ethanol). It might have marginally better emissions, I'm not sure. I have _NEVER_ seen it marketed as an alternative to conventional fuel to improve the global warming situation. It's purely meant to be an alternative so we don't use up all of the oil in the ground before we find a valid evironmentally-friendly alternative and make it common usage. I hope that made some sense. I'm a little tired right now. lol
As for Hydrogen fuel celled cars - We all know Hydrogen is extremely flammable. What happens in the even of an incident? It can be ignited MUCH easier than conventional fuels, I can see this creating much much more dangerous crashes and other incidents. Anyone know how the industry intends to aleve that problem? I've always wondered that..
One thing I have been contemplating lately is the term 'natural.' Technically, EVERYthing is natural, as all of it comes from the earth in one way or another... That's the gist of what Tristan was getting at though, isn't it? :P
As for Hydrogen fuel celled cars - We all know Hydrogen is extremely flammable. What happens in the even of an incident? It can be ignited MUCH easier than conventional fuels, I can see this creating much much more dangerous crashes and other incidents. Anyone know how the industry intends to aleve that problem? I've always wondered that..
One thing I have been contemplating lately is the term 'natural.' Technically, EVERYthing is natural, as all of it comes from the earth in one way or another... That's the gist of what Tristan was getting at though, isn't it? :P
CSU1 go back to chemistry class. Petrol (gasoline) is basically octanol, thats ethanol but with 8 carbons instead of ethanol's 2. All hydrocarbons when burnt in oxygen produce CO2 and some CO. Its the carbon monoxide thats the real killer. CO2 is a natural part of the environmental cycle.
Global warming is but a small twitch in the geological temperature record, there was a far bigger period of 'warming' back in the 1400's apparently, that was some time before the discovery of the infernal combustion engine.
I heard recently that antarctica has never had so much ice since records began. That sounds to me more like global cooling.
Global warming is but a small twitch in the geological temperature record, there was a far bigger period of 'warming' back in the 1400's apparently, that was some time before the discovery of the infernal combustion engine.
I heard recently that antarctica has never had so much ice since records began. That sounds to me more like global cooling.
That is also true, I think it's called the hockey stick figure or something like that. The statistic look bad when you start look them just before beginning of the industrial era, but before that earth had one of it's coolest times, the so called "small ice-age." That is one of the theorys, but this global warming fighting issue, or global normalisation who knows, is done because people would like to survive and not to move or die. There has also been therorys that when temperature soars the polar ice-fields will actually grown because the increased vaporation of water which can lead to increased snow fall. Who knows. But my point about the claimed nature friendliness of this bioethanol, it's not about what they advert it's about what people will think, they don't advertise it as green, not directly but atleast here everyone else is sort of drumming how good it is. Advertising is about making opinnios without telling them directly, and that's what they've done. I will make a study today, and ask people what is the first thing which come in their mind when they hear word bio, and biofuel. Let's see how that comes up, I recon almost everyone willl say good for the enviroment, and that's my point.
But biofuels are not just ethanol, gases like methane could also be used. it would be only about collecting it because at the moment it's just released in the air without using it, every farm with animals produce masses of it. Technology for using it already there, and there is few biogas cars already here too. But if taxes stay the same here it won't ever get usable or popular because at the moment they don't motivate anyone to not use fossil fuels. Everything which would be normally wasted and then used as a fuels is great in my opinion, like cooking oil. Might not be any better for environment thou.
And about the hydrogen cars. It's odd that people will first think how dangerous it would be to crash one of those, I just can see them imagining the Hindenburg burning down in flames. The evil hydrogen! I think the hydrogen used in the prototypes is already sucked in fabric inside a container, it's not running around. And I'm 100% sure the car makers can make it safe, and must already done. I'm no engineer but I think placing the tank, which is guite small and thick, in a safe place which won't get deformed during a crash is the solution and it wont just spill everything out. And would the car explode if the tank leaked, could it just vanish in the atmosphere like it normally does when not holded up tightly. What can I say, dam Hollywood and the exploding cars hehehee....
lMAO, yeah, maybe I shud Al.
That part about there being more snow at the poles
, well that just goes to show how little we understand about mother nature and exactly what effects these gases will have to our ozone/habitat/landscape.I dont believe we as humans are going to have much of a say to the future of our planet either by what we've done in the past or what we do now to contribute to the Greenhouse effect, because our actions producing harmful gases is only a drop in the ocean compared to what mother nature can and has done.
Mars - Now there's a bloody cool idea they've come uo with at NASA, sending mechanised factorys to produce billions of cubic meters of vapour to kick start the ozone there! Viva Mars
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