A basic easy to use setup guide. With information on how to make an endurance set and more on the process on making setups.

The guide is brought to you by Cyber racing team and is available at www.cyber-racing.org



Cyber|Moby

Good work fellas! thanks

nice one Cyber

Looks really good, and its good that you've spent many hours putting this together but Im not sure its excatly correct. I could be wrong.

"The softer you make a shock absorber the faster the weight is transferred."

I think it is the other way around a hard damper forces the quicker the weight is transfered. I've spent ages trying to understand car setups and there are still many things i dont understand fully.

"I can make the rear compression damp harder so that less weight is
transferred to the rear".

Dampers are for controlling the speed not the amount, the springs control the weight that can be transfer front to back /side to side, increasing rear damper force you'll increase the speed in which weight is transfered.

think of it like this if you had a solid bar instead of a spring/damper the weight would be tranfered to the wheels instantly.

Excellent work there dude.

Thanks Moby

I really like the last bit where it is about if you over\understeer at which part of the corner and the measures to fix it! Very helpful

I'd like to see an addition of steps for balancing the car into and out of the corner using the clutch pack diff though...

Thanks Moby

@Mikey

Yes you are correct, the problem when I wrote it was, how I can explain it in the most simple terms I could use. Using the weight as an example is easier to understand and you get the same principal if you are thinking of it as speed at which the weight is moving or just mass moved. But its correct that shocks do controll at which speed the weight is transferred.

@Axus

Good point, I will put it in at a later date.

Moby

Niiiiiiiice work, guys!!

First of all: Good short-guide, but you're cutting quite some corners with it... For example, ride height isn't just how high your car sits, it also affects suspension travel, which affects grip... So only writing "lower ride height improves handling by lowering cog" is just plain wrong... And parallel steering has absolutely nothing to do with rear wheels... You can describe it more as a "progressive toe-setting": The more you turn, the more toe in you get, resulting in better grip on the inside tire, but at the cost of bigger turning circle...

Quote from bbman :

And parallel steering has absolutely nothing to do with rear wheels... You can describe it more as a "progressive toe-setting": The more you turn, the more toe in you get, resulting in better grip on the inside tire, but at the cost of bigger turning circle...

Actually you don't get more toe-in with parallel steer values less than 100%. In fact you get more toe-in on the inside wheel only. This is what is known as Ackerman Angle. The reason for it is becuase the track width of the car means the inside wheel has to turn through a narrower radius than the outside one. So for a track with lots of tight corners you would want a lower value than one with lots of fast corners. Similarly, a car with a wide track width would also require a lower value than a very narrow car.

Nice work Moby, I've no idea how many people you've helped with these guides over the years, but it must be quite a few. As always the excellent suggestions for things which might be added/altered, without making it overwhelming for setup newbies, come thick and fast.

Moby's setup guides, like all good setups, do tend to require a bit of fine-tuning.

[quote=bbman;266923]First of all: Good short-guide, but you're cutting quite some corners with it... For example, ride height isn't just how high your car sits, it also affects suspension travel, which affects grip... So only writing "lower ride height improves handling by lowering cog" is just plain wrong... [quote]


It is meant to be an easy to understand guide. The corner cutting that has been made to simplify but still keep the basic principal. Understanding something so complex like all parts and how they interact into smallest detail is something that requires 5 years of university or more. It effects suspension, downforce and cog but does that effect how you tune your car in Lfs? Since the effect between ride height and downforce isnt implemented in Lfs at this point. So basicly in a Lfs enviroment all you need to know is dont run too low becuase then it will touch the ground and slow you down.

About the ackermann ist quite difficult to understand even for me, thats why I probably need to change that.

Moby

Quote from Gentlefoot :

Actually you don't get more toe-in with parallel steer values less than 100%. In fact you get more toe-in on the inside wheel only. This is what is known as Ackerman Angle. The reason for it is becuase the track width of the car means the inside wheel has to turn through a narrower radius than the outside one. So for a track with lots of tight corners you would want a lower value than one with lots of fast corners. Similarly, a car with a wide track width would also require a lower value than a very narrow car.

Not much difference between my explanation and yours, you just added detail... Because toe-in on one wheel is toe-in generally as well...

@moby: I'm not focusing on aero, I'm just pointing out it greatly affects suspension travel, and that is already modeled, isn't it? Following your guide I would just set my car as low as possible, and then wonder why the hell it would understeer as hell and spin at every bump (although not bottoming out) because there is not enough room for the suspension to work... Which would be the complete opposite of handling...

Nice work, I've printed the Quick Reference and slapped it up ontop my wall

Quote from bbman :

Not much difference between my explanation and yours, you just added detail... Because toe-in on one wheel is toe-in generally as well...

- aah but if you have enough ackerman (a low enough value) you can end up with toe-out on the outside wheel.

I was doing some FZR @ Westhill setup work earlier and I picked something up that I hadn't picked up before. Obviously, you can compensate entry oversteer in a number of ways but usually one will be more appropriate than others. The setup I started from had a tendency to get into corners well but start sliding once it is settled into the corner (before mid-corner). Once I realised this, I softened dampers altogether to allow the car to settle quicker and compensated for the effect on handling with rollbars, wings, diff, etc. Immediately, the setup handled better and put its power down better out of corners. Thought this might be an interesting little line of thought to add to the setup guide, but this is getting a bit more complex.

Quote from axus :

I was doing some FZR @ Westhill setup work earlier and I picked something up that I hadn't picked up before. Obviously, you can compensate entry oversteer in a number of ways but usually one will be more appropriate than others. The setup I started from had a tendency to get into corners well but start sliding once it is settled into the corner (before mid-corner). Once I realised this, I softened dampers altogether to allow the car to settle quicker and compensated for the effect on handling with rollbars, wings, diff, etc. Immediately, the setup handled better and put its power down better out of corners. Thought this might be an interesting little line of thought to add to the setup guide, but this is getting a bit more complex.

That is interesting. My approach would have been do add more rebound at the back (assuming it was a nice smooth surface). But then I also find sometimes the thing you think will work actually has little effect and then you look for alternatives. There's always more than one way to skin a cat.

btw like the avatar.

The few sets of others I have seen have always been way over-damped, so that would seem to fit in with the trend.

I've updated the lfs wiki version of the setup guide:
http://en.lfsmanual.net/wiki/Basic_Setup_Guide