English is so important in Holland, it is practically its 2nd language. Alot of Dutch are pretty advanced in German and French as well.
The reason for this is because Holland is so small. If you go 2meters to the East, you're in Germany. If you go 3 meters to the South, you're in France and if you swim to the West for a minute, you're in England...
Alot of Germans aren't very good at English for a simple reason. No matter how far you travel North-South, East-West, you'll still be in Germany, having to speak German. (Hypothetically speaking of course. ) Germans also don't have any or almost no subtitles with English TV. They voice-dub almost any Hollywood movie for example.
Also, there are alot of different nationalities in Holland of wich only half speak reasonable Dutch.

I've been taught English for 9 years in 3 different schools now(elementary, high school, college). Wich is compulsory in Dutch school at least till high school.
But it also helped an awful lot that I watched English spoken TV with subtitles, like movies and cartoons.
I gradually listened more to the English and read the subtitles less and less. When I didn't know the translation of a word I could just look it up in the subtitles rightaway. This is the laziest yet one of the best ways to learn English!

Nowadays, because I have so many non-Dutch friends I'm speaking it daily face to face, over the phone or online. And because of that I even think in English.

Quote from (SaM) :

If you go 3 meters to the South, you're in France

I think you need some extra lessons in geography

Why does everyone talk about the germans and their bad English, sounds like we are the worst in Europe illepall

BTW, cause I'm speaking right now English and French my German is a mess and it takes me sometimes ages to find the German word

No dominguez, no big horses here. It just happens that I know what I'm talking about. I'm just wondering if I have to discuss with some people having difficulties expressing what they think. Especially I'm asking myself why do I have to do it, if it's supposedly for fun, as in this forum, just to be accused to "miss some points completely" from someone who doesn't even know what he's saying because "his thoughts are too complicated", or because you think I'm on a high horse? Any motivation for this belief, apart from me hijacking this thread and going off topic because of some remarks I find astonishingly disrespectful, ahistorical and unintelligent (word consistent with Newspeak rules)? Language is not devoid of rules. And I am unwilling to accept an explanation that's so inconsistent, based on a future we won't be able to see or on some "problems with language, math is better". Language doesn't work that way! It's based on a structure. It has a grammar, it has rules, meanings, syntax and logic. I am simply bored and annoyed to death, so pretty much closer to being buried under the ground than on a high horse. I have my reasons that go far beyond what I've simply stated in this thread, although if you read carefully what I wrote before you could understand that I know what I'm talking about.
Usually I like your posts, but I think you now missed some bits of the discussion and some of my previous posts. If it's so, go back and read, then decide for yourself.

I'm English and have been speaking/writing it since i could but i am still shite at it.

I have odd days where my grammer, spelling and punctuation is perfect, yet others its really, really rubbish. But most of the time its in-between, so you get the odd spelling mistake, missing comma or something.

But, English is something i want to brush up on. Speaking it i'm fine, fluent, no mistakes, but its typing mainly i have problems with (just think you dont have to spell words when you say them out loud. ) Plus the industry i am heading into uses computers heavily so writing and documentation will also have to be perfect.

Quote from Albieg :

No dominguez, no big horses here. It just happens that I know what I'm talking about. I'm just wondering if I have to discuss with some people having difficulties expressing what they think. Especially I'm asking myself why do I have to do it, if it's supposedly for fun, as in this forum, just to be accused to "miss some points completely" from someone who doesn't even know what he's saying because "his thoughts are too complicated", or because you think I'm on a high horse? Any motivation for this belief, apart from me hijacking this thread and going off topic because of some remarks I find astonishingly disrespectful, ahistorical and unintelligent (word consistent with Newspeak rules)? Language is not devoid of rules. And I am unwilling to accept an explanation that's so inconsistent, based on a future we won't be able to see or on some "problems with language, math is better". Language doesn't work that way! It's based on a structure. It has a grammar, it has rules, meanings, syntax and logic. I am simply bored and annoyed to death, so pretty much closer to being buried under the ground that on a high horse. I have my reasons that go far beyond what I've simply stated in this thread, although if you read carefully what I wrote before you could understand that I know what I'm talking about.
Usually I like your posts, but I think you now missed some bits of the discussion and some of my previous posts. If it's so, go back and read, then decide for yourself.

Look, nobody is not forcing you, I said many posts ago that it is pointless, it is very possible that it is because my way of thinking or something like that, I guess.
I did meant not to accuse you from missing the point, I did say that it happened because I could not express myself enough well.
Biggest problem is that we can't understand each other enough well, so that you could understand me you had to understand my way of thinkin and to me understand you I had to understand your way of thinking as these are not matching in this subject we can't come to any reasonable conclusion.
I would never accuse or say anything respectful to you as it would not build anything and certainly would not be logical to do, still I see you have understand some of my comments such way, I find it very sad and I can blaim only myself from that as I must have writed it wrong way then.

This just lead me thinking again how much less hazzle it would be if english would been only language for last 300 years lol.

Quote from Albieg :

I have my reasons that go far beyond what I've simply stated in this thread, although if you read carefully what I wrote before you could understand that I know what I'm talking about.

Im sure, you know very well what you are talking about. I just got the impression from your last 2 posts that you were speaking down to him because of your better education. Youre right, I didnt take the previous posts into account. Sorry.

I keep out of this argument now, like I normally always do. Im not good at them.

Quote from Albieg :

Usually I like your posts...

I dont.

Am I the only one that finds it funny that despite the OP asking

Quote :

im curious how often most of you people that live outside of canada, america, or england and wherever else english is the major language, how often do you speak in english daily (in the real world that is; not on the internet)

a good percentage of the replies in the thread are from people from the countries mentioned? :P

On Ablieg's and JTBo's debate:

While I'd love a utopian world without borders and differences, much like John Lennon sung about, I doubt that linguistic assimilation would actually cut it. Humans are capable of the most ingenius inventions of reasons to loath or fear other earthlings and it mostly comes from the ability to tell stories.

This inventiveness is triggered by stories and the stories are triggered by the inventiveness. It's a vicious circle of sorts and roughly speaking, language is a product of it which reflects back into the process and reverberates off the cultural structures which surround it.

Atleast that's my simplistic take on it. There's nothing more awe-inspiring than getting a glimpse into the mechanics of a different language and seeing the different approaches to subjects, ideas and ideals which helped form it. One thing that I find sorely missing from English for example is the lack of grammatical genre. There's no way I could ever imagine the sea as not being female...

Quote from tristancliffe :

But English, I gather, has less rules initially, more bending locally, and some very peculiar habits in general. I've been told often that English is a much harder language to learn than say Italian or French. German is much closer to English in structure. Also, English is more tolerant of words being in the wrong order - if I write a fax in pigeon-french they won't understand me. If they write one back in pigeon-english I probably will.

Dodgy word order in German is what kills. Just think Yoda, run round using a flourescent light tube as a sword, go around on your knees and wear a brown cape lol.

Quote :

But 'foreigners' tend to learn English as pure English, and as such obey rules that the English themselves are very lax on. Thus, as the internet demonstrates, English is often better written by non-English speakers.

:iagree: Faster111 springs to mind

Quote :

We are too lazy in general to have any appreciation for apostrophes, sentence structure, capitalisation in our OWN language, and so get beaten by other countries (just like in every single sport ever).

What spreads the problem is badly spelt adverts and mobile phones.

Quote :

I don't count American as English. It's so bastardised and ruined that American should be defined as a separate, inferior language. Hell, they can't even do all the letters in Aluminium. And their grasp of ...ato words is very weak. Or should that be week?

Since you mention aluminium, in this case, IUPAC prefer the UK spelling. But - technically speaking - sulphur is incorrect everywhere in the world. The IUPAC correct spelling is sulfur. At the end of the day, for spelling of any chemical element, IUPAC are gospel.

Quote :

Edit: I don't claim to be perfect at my language. I make mistakes, especially on internet posts. But I try, and I make an effort. Most people, it seems, don't. If you see a missing (or extra) letter/punctuation mark then feel free to point it out, but bear in mind that picking on someone trying is the second lowest form of wit. Picking on someone who doesn't try is fair game.

The same as me

Quote from xaotik :

This inventiveness is triggered by stories and the stories are triggered by the inventiveness. It's a vicious circle of sorts and roughly speaking, language is a product of it which reflects back into the process and reverberates off the cultural structures which surround it.

With different words:

The great enemy of clear language is insincerity. When there is a gap between one's real and one's declared aims, one turns as it were instinctively to long words and exhausted idioms, like a cuttlefish spurting out ink. In our age there is no such thing as ‘keeping out of politics’. All issues are political issues, and politics itself is a mass of lies, evasions, folly, hatred, and schizophrenia. When the general atmosphere is bad, language must suffer.

From Politics and the English Language, George Orwell, 1946.

As a side note, there are no hard feelings for anyone here.

I learned English in school, and computer games/movies.

I think my English is allright consider my age

Quote from xaotik :

On Ablieg's and JTBo's debate:

While I'd love a utopian world without borders and differences, much like John Lennon sung about, I doubt that linguistic assimilation would actually cut it. Humans are capable of the most ingenius inventions of reasons to loath or fear other earthlings and it mostly comes from the ability to tell stories.

True, language is only bridge, tool to help cut those other things out, it alone indeed is not enough but without it there is less chance of utopia, imo.

Fear not, in our lifetime there will be no any utopia, only hard work and pain in arse while we try to work as tranlators

@Albieg, certainly not any hard feelings, as we did not fight as persons only our arquments

How much English I speak in real life beside internet ? 4 hours a week, forced by school.

For the rest ?

None atm...