Althought I am not a very fast racer (yet), or an experienced one, I try my very best not to be in the way of faster guys and to drive clean and fair.

I respect blue flags. I'll even throw myself into a gravel trap if it means the group of race leaders won't have trouble getting by me and I lift off the throttle and drive safer when I get to a yellow flag situation.

But why is it that I rarely see anyone lift off the throttle at yellow flags?

I mean, I'd be racing someone in the mid field, nice close racing, good fight. . and someone ahead would spin of crash...

So I lift off the throttle (and as far as I know, this is the RULE for a yellow flag) and go somewhat slower, to avoid whatever danger lies ahead.

The guy behind me would go "thanks!" and just keep on the throttle and fly past me.

Of course many times resulting in even worse crashes, but that's besides the point.

Is there some form of punishment in the game for disobeying (any) flags?

In real life, if I am not mistaken, you'd get punished for going on the limit under yellow and overtaking someone during yellow, right?

If there is no such rule in LFS, will something like this be implemented to enforce this rule in the future?
It's annoying to lose positions, just because you played by the rules.

(sorry if this has been discussed before)

Fred

As far as I know, yellow flag, IRL anyway, generally means trouble ahead no overtaking.

In LFS, it just means, look out there is a problem, I probably wouldnt lift in any yellow flag situation, IRL, or in LFS, but certainly IRL I wouldnt overtake under a yellow.

I also think they is some sort of rule of a course wide yellow having a more strigent rule, might be wrong though.

Dan,

good point... I rarely even notice the 'yellow flag' tbh.

Maybe something 'bigger' is being worked on, but a temporary solution could be a time penalty added afyer the race for those that overtake under yellow.

Well, why do they want to be first at the first corner?

People have trouble treating the blue flag right if you want to be serious with the yellow flag you'd end up pulling your hair out and leaving the game! Yellow flags can be shown for someone ahead running a little wide and touching the grass or something and by the the time you get there, there is nothing at all.

I take yellow flags as a warning that something might have happend ahead so watch out, nothing more! Backing off will only get you passed and maybe even hit in the rear, the arguments that treating the yellow flag to such an extent would be endless i.e "you didn't slow enough", "you slowed too much", "you caused a crash" etc, etc......

League races could obey yellow flags but it would be at the most no overtaking, getting everyone to back off the same amount as ech other would be a nightmare (see above).

......also at the end of the day, and I hate saying this, it is a game and things have to be kept fun.

I agree with all thats said above but wanted to add

Depending on where you are on trakc and which track your on if you get a yellow flag look at the mini map to see if someone is facing the wrong way, if so be careful. If not its probably safe to carry on as you normally would.

Yes well of course I don't just brake every time it says "yellow flag"

Usually you can see what's going on directly or on the map.
But if I see a car spin off and can see that it will come back on the track
then I'd lift.

And a lot of times someone behind me does not, goes by me, crashes into the allready spinning car, takes out me in the process, and then 3 people sit in the pits waiting for the next race, instead of one car losing a few positions and no crash at all.

I just think a lot more people would stay in the race and not end up in the pits waiting for 10 laps to get back into it if part of the hunger for victory would be swapped towards driving sensible.

And it's mnot like obeying blue flags and being carefull with yellow flag situations would require a certain skill beyond the ones you need to race others in the first place, some people just don't wanna stick to rules if it means they can get some advantage out of it I think.

so yeah I do agree, it's hard to implement rules for lifting off the throttle indeed, sometimes it's not a real accident at all that says "yellow flag" on your screen, but for the overtaking there should be imho, with of course, a time pause till it's triggered so the position can be given back after an "accidental" overtaking

Generally, in real life (under the rules of the german motorsports association), a yellow flag means: Be cautious, decrease speed, prepare to evade, track may be blocked partially, don't overtake. Two yellow flags would be more severe, but LFS doesn't have that.
But LFS's flags are totally messed up. LFS gives yellow flags for someone who accidentally slides through a corner at racing speeds. But it doesn't give a yellow flag for standing cars on the track in some situations.
Personally, I lift off in leagueraces if I see an accident. That did loose me a place in a recent race, but that's better then a crash/damage and a penalty.
On public servers it's a "depends": On a track like Kyoto I can see most problems ahead and won't lift off. On a track like Fern Bay I lift off. Hey, I rather loose a place than end my race immediately. Remember: It's a public race. I couldn't care less about my finishing position. If the other guy uses a yellow flag situation to make a pass it's his beef. Well, it might turn out to be my problem, but then there's no way I could have prevented that - his fault, he's the bad racer.

Vain

I'm one of those fast people that don't slow down under yellows but then scream about blue flags. Slightly hypocritical, I know. But it's also slightly conditional. If I see a yellow pop up right before a blind high speed corner I'm going to be cautious for my own safety, if I see a yellow and I know where the guy is I'll decided what I need to do from the situation he's in.

I agree that it's not really imaginable to force people to lift under yellow flags, but I think that at least enforcing the overtaking interdiction (with penalties) would be good.

Even if I don't always lift when I see a yellow flag, I often change my line to reserve more room for evasive action, and that opens wide the door for the guy behind to overtake me, which he always does. I really wouldn't mind him to get a drive-through for his kamikaze move, in this case.

Blue flags should be enforced too, IMO, but it's a bit more complex because you should still be allowed to unlap yourself when you're faster than the car that gives you the blue flag.

Blue flags should be auto-enforced.

Held and waved yellows should be seperate and auto-enforced as well. 120 kph limit in that sector.

Quote from duke_toaster :

Blue flags should be auto-enforced..

What do you mean by this? I don't see how it would be possible.

Quote from duke_toaster :

Blue flags should be auto-enforced.

Quote from Peptis :

What do you mean by this? I don't see how it would be possible.

It would take additional coding so that it is a true blue flag rather than just a car in a position ahead is x.xx amount of seconds behind you. It can't be done with the way blue flags are coded currently. Depending on circumstances, I could be recieving a blue flag after a pitstop while actually be as fast or faster then the guy giving a blue flag. As of now, all blue flag in LFS is, is a warning that someone a position ahead of you is x.xx seconds behind you.

With the proper coding, I definitely agree that blue flags should be enforced.

I was actually asking how it would be possible to enforce the blue flag.

After thinking it over, I guess you could give someone a time penalty if they are driving under a blue flag for longer than a specified continuous period (e.g., 1 lap).

So, what do you think I would have got the other day in a league race, where I had 10 laps constantly blue flags because the lapping car only caught up marginally each lap?

I think you would get a warning (maybe a voice warning from your pit crew ), and if you fail to comply quicksmart, the penalty would be imposed. Like mrodgers says, I think the blue-flag code would need to be refined tho.
Gotta say tho, if someone was close enough to me to trigger constant blue flags for 10 laps, I'd be letting him go

edit: by auto-enforced, do you mean your car would lose power, or something similar? If so, boo :P

Quote from duke_toaster :

Blue flags should be auto-enforced.

Held and waved yellows should be seperate and auto-enforced as well. 120 kph limit in that sector.

no way for a simulation..

Quote from Goop :

Gotta say tho, if someone was close enough to me to trigger constant blue flags for 10 laps, I'd be letting him go

edit: by auto-enforced, do you mean your car would lose power, or something similar? If so, boo :P

Not me. Just because you see a blue flag, doesn't mean the guy is right behind you. I've been in the situation after a damaging crash and pit in a league race where I was blue flagged nearly the rest of the race. I never saw him in the mirror. I also was the flagger where I ran with a guy ahead of me for half a race. I never caught him, which I definitely wouldn't want him to just stop running to let me go. If I was catching him and he was holding me back, that is a different story. It's not until the guy actually catches me that he is let by. Can't let someone you can't see go by.

Blue IRL means faster car is behind. Blue in LFS just means the guy behind you is ahead in position. Doesn't neccessarily mean he is faster and you need to let him by.

By auto-enforce, I would think some kind of pitting penalty. A drive through or stop and go or even stop for time.

Fair enough. I'd just let him go on the straight.

I guess there are exceptions. For example, if I let him go, and he has a mishap ahead, then unless he gets right on my tail again, I certainly wouldn't be doing him any favours.

But ten laps with a blue flag message... my perception of courtesy aside, I reckon that might get just a little annoying, too

If I see a yellow flag I don't automatically lift. Instead I simply try and leave myself some margin at the next corner in case I need to deviate from the normal line.

Quote from Goop :

Fair enough. I'd just let him go on the straight.

I guess there are exceptions. For example, if I let him go, and he has a mishap ahead, then unless he gets right on my tail again, I certainly wouldn't be doing him any favours.

But ten laps with a blue flag message... my perception of courtesy aside, I reckon that might get just a little annoying, too

I am of course talking long / league races here. If you just let him go only because of the blue flag, then you could be essentially taking yourself out of the race. If you are being blue flagged only because of different pit strategies, then it is unneccessary to slow way down just because you are blue flagged, thus loosing huge amounts of time to the guy up ahead of you and also the possibility of catching the flagger once he pits.

That is why I said it needs to be recoded before we have auto-penalties for blue flag. It needs to actually mean a faster car is behind you, not just x.xx amount of time behind.

If I pit on lap 10 of 40 where I can go 30 laps to the finish without pitting again, and the blue flagger waits until 10 laps left, he will have a much longer pitstop than I did, which may allow me to come around and catch close enough to think about catching and passing in the final 10 laps. If I choose to let him go just because he is blue flagging, he may be a quarter to half a lap behind me depending on the track length and I just lost the race because I let him go way back after my pitstop.

So, there are instances where the blue flag can mean absolutely nothing for the race.

In the real world the only difference in my driving under yellow flag, aside from not overtaking, is that I dont push the envelope. Crashing under yellow is bad form. If I see a marshall on track i'll be extra doubly careful, but otherwise I want to minimise the lost time and maximise any possible gains. I'm still racing.

In LFS the yellow flag does not come out soon enough. I do notice it and I use it to try and avoid incidents, but I dont have to worry about marshalls on the track. I take extra care and try not to get involved, but i'll be damned if i'm loosing a tenth, in the real world or LFS...

Quote from thisnameistaken :

The single most annoying thing about yellow flags is when a driver who is causing the yellow thinks everybody would be better off if he moved his car, or just tries to get going again without checking to see if anyone's coming. I hate it when I've already decided how I'm going to avoid a pile-up and then one of the cars sticks it in reverse and floors it. :doh:

I'm agreeing with you a lot today.

This is what should happen:

You crash your car and have spun into the middle of the track. Here's three simple steps:

Step 1 - Don't move
Step 2 - check mini map
step 3 - continue if nothing is coming

Simple as that people!!

Not the perfect solution, I never use the mini-map, I don't like arcade features in LFS. I suspect I'm not alone with that opinion.

Using look left/right/behind is essential though, and should suffice.

My main peeve is when a car ahead (or a group of cars) get a little out of shape, you brake to not plough into them, and someone behind you takes the opportunity to pass me. With any luck they'll wipe out into the car I brake to avoid, but sadly they usually pull it off.

Where's the fun in taking a car going that much slower than you? The fun comes from winning the battles, not winning the war.

Quote from mrodgers :

Not me. Just because you see a blue flag, doesn't mean the guy is right behind you. I've been in the situation after a damaging crash and pit in a league race where I was blue flagged nearly the rest of the race. I never saw him in the mirror.

That was exactly the situation I was in... The guy behind (actually in front with rankings) only caught up hundreths of a second each lap when I still struggled to find my rhythm again...

Quote from Gentlefoot :

If I see a yellow flag I don't automatically lift. Instead I simply try and leave myself some margin at the next corner in case I need to deviate from the normal line.

Quote from Becky Rose :

In the real world the only difference in my driving under yellow flag, aside from not overtaking, is that I dont push the envelope. Crashing under yellow is bad form. If I see a marshall on track i'll be extra doubly careful, but otherwise I want to minimise the lost time and maximise any possible gains. I'm still racing.

Exactly what I think, you don't have to slow down, but you shouldn't push it either... As many other times, a bit of thinking and common sense saves your day/race...