hi dear community

iam interestet in buying an Logitech G25 Steering wheel.
The G25 has 900° Modus, and i want to know how it is to drive LFS with this modus

Thx ALPA

Its a nice feature to have, but IMO its far to much revoloution for LFS.

I think some people use it, but I find it too hard to catch a slide with 900DEG.

Dan,

Quote from danowat :

Its a nice feature to have, but IMO its far to much revoloution for LFS.

I think some people use it, but I find it too hard to catch a slide with 900DEG.

Dan,

I agree even at 180 i find it a little wierd trying to catch a mrt slide but almost i can it when i want to

With the DFP its internal drag/resistance made 900 degrees useless. The G25 is easier and faster to turn making it better. I haven't tried but it seems you can use a reasonable amount like 720 degrees..

With a GOOD FF wheel (which doesn't exist yet) of coures you'd have to use exactly the wheel rotation adopted by the real car! Makes it more difficult? Even so, its how the real thing is..

Until then though, poor FF makes it a compromise but the G25 is the best yet..

Using 900° doesn't make any sense, because no car in LFS has that much of a steering range. Using the full 900° would neither be realistic nor would it help you in any way, so I guess to answer the topic question: No, 900° are not useful in LFS.

But anything < 720° is fine

Catching slides is EASY with 900 degrees.

It's avoiding overcorrection (i.e. winding off the lock quick enough) that's the hard part. But you get better, and now I love using lots of lock. Just don't go round the outside of me whilst I'm sliding

Quote from tristancliffe :

Catching slides is EASY with 900 degrees.

No, it's EASY IN YOUR OPINION

Goes without saying. All my posts are in my opinion. They wouldn't be in your opinion. Applies on all forums everywhere, surely?

I'm just safe in the knowledge that anyone who disagrees with me is a noob *runs away*

All you guy's with your "900 degrees" and what not! I only have 90~degrees on a bloody gamepad to play with nail-biting stuff

I'm a bit confused on all the talk that it is harder to catch a slide with the high rotation of DFP/G25 etc. I've watched plenty of vids on folks with a DFP, whether drifting or racing and it looks like it would be so much easier. With my Momo, you send the tail out, hurry up to countersteer and boom, you're at the lock instantly. There just seems like there would be so much more control with more realistic rotation that it should be much easier with the DFP. Maybe it is Niel's comment about the drag/resistance of the FF motor that makes it difficult.

I always see comments on how wheels like the Momo is easier to catch slides, but I just don't have the precision at that small of a rotation. It's easy to countersteer with smaller rotation, but for me, it's difficult to come back from catching to correction as I always go too far and the back end starts to occillate.

Quote from mrodgers :

I'm a bit confused on all the talk that it is harder to catch a slide with the high rotation of DFP/G25 etc. I've watched plenty of vids on folks with a DFP, whether drifting or racing and it looks like it would be so much easier. With my Momo, you send the tail out, hurry up to countersteer and boom, you're at the lock instantly. There just seems like there would be so much more control with more realistic rotation that it should be much easier with the DFP. Maybe it is Niel's comment about the drag/resistance of the FF motor that makes it difficult.

I always see comments on how wheels like the Momo is easier to catch slides, but I just don't have the precision at that small of a rotation. It's easy to countersteer with smaller rotation, but for me, it's difficult to come back from catching to correction as I always go too far and the back end starts to occillate.

Yep, Easyer to catch the arse of your car with a smaller axis to work with, but at the end of the day persision is achieved with a greater axis.

i have a dfp, but i use 540° because it's the maximum i can turn the wheel without having to take my hands off of the wheel.

I've got a G25 and find catching slides MUCH easier now i'm used to it. I recently tried using a standard wheel and could not drive in a straight line let alone catch slides due to the limited rotation.

Andrew

I only use 270 for everything. I find it plenty and for precision I have that wheel compensation thing turned on that makes it feel just right.

Quote from mrodgers :

Maybe it is Niel's comment about the drag/resistance of the FF motor that makes it difficult.

Yeah, I too wish he hadn't said that, he throughtlessly increased the difficulty level for all of us. Thanks Niel!

On a more serious note, I found that the steering compensation setting in LFS helped alot on a 180 degree wheel - although it's probably not the most realistic thing ever.

I set LFS so that I have to turn the wheel as much as the graphical image would go. So technically I don't use 900°, but I could turn it that much, the car would just stop steering at a certain point. And that way I can leave the settings for when I'm driving the MRT for instance. Feels very natural too.

Its a bit of a tough one at the moment. Using 270 degrees is obviously unrealistic for road cars. There is no way a real caterham or normal road car would get 36 degrees of wheel lock to one side with 135 degrees of steering wheel lock. In LFS they graphically do 720. Even a real caterham could well use more and it seems that 900 is about the minimum for more normal road cars from my admittedly limited experience.

Now there are loads of videos that show that in real life, with most car geometries (caster angle etc) the front wheels will automatically want to go in the direction the car is moving, even if the car's back end steps out. So this will often apply opposite lock for you! Now with a DFP at 900 degrees setting, it WILL do this.. but at about 1/10th the speed you might witness in a real car.. Hence its way too slow and you'd have to try and force this, making the wheel scream like a pig.. This would be unrealistic and unrealistically hard.. Now with the wheel at say 270 degrees, the realism is overshot the other way. It becomes easy (hands on at all time) and a LOT faster to steer.

So the faster the FF wheel is (and the less it resists manual steering) the more lock you can use while it still is realistic. With a DFP the best lock setting is in a 10cm thick walled safe with a combination nobody knows.. I wish I could try the G25 soon, it should be a lot nicer..

I don't use force feedback which is also a compromise, as I have to do all the steering manually which at a real 720 or 900 degrees would make drifting nearly impossible..

Sofar its all compromised by the actual wheel hardware.

I also think that the 900 deg modus is to much "work" for playing good LFS.

i will buy now an Logitech MOMO .

hope it will get cheeper if the G25 is released

Also, I would limit the car setup steering lock to a LOT less. Setting it to 15 degrees still makes all hairpins easy but steering far less sensitive.. that way you can have it linear and nicely responsive, plus you can't go too wild or you won't have enough lock to catch the problem. Good way to teach smooth driving!

Quote from mrodgers :

I'm a bit confused on all the talk that it is harder to catch a slide with the high rotation of DFP/G25 etc. I've watched plenty of vids on folks with a DFP, whether drifting or racing and it looks like it would be so much easier.

trust me its harder ... especially with one of them effing slow dfps and even on a much fatser wheel (like a g25) its hard

Quote :

I always see comments on how wheels like the Momo is easier to catch slides, but I just don't have the precision at that small of a rotation. It's easy to countersteer with smaller rotation, but for me, it's difficult to come back from catching to correction as I always go too far and the back end starts to occillate.

practice drifting then itsll teach you a lot about when to steer straight again
besides that problem is worse with a dfp or g25 ... with 270° of rotation you can steer straight quickly and/or countersteer a little if youre too late with 720° your timing has to be a lot better to not be too late and have the car jump into the outside wall on corner exit

900 is great fun and is NOT too hard to catch a slide with although the norm in LFS is to run 720 as that is the normal max lock for cars in LFS. The other reason for 720 is the auto compensation that LFS does so you set your wheel to 720 and it adjusts to the correct lock in the car you drive.

The G25 is a stunning wheel and the FF motors are easy fast enough to let you chuck a car around in a similar way as you would IRL. The DFP is a lot slower and so lags a little BUT is fine in 720 mode and just as much fun. I say this with 2 years using a DFP and many miles done with it. The DFP is let down with the pedals though so I used ActLabs pedals instead.

TBH, Since using wheels that have 900deg lock I would NEVER go back to an old style wheel now. A big lock just feels so much more realistic in all games I have tried it with.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Catching slides is EASY with 900 degrees.

It's avoiding overcorrection (i.e. winding off the lock quick enough) that's the hard part. But you get better, and now I love using lots of lock. Just don't go round the outside of me whilst I'm sliding

I do agree with you completely, in road cars catching slide IRL is not often possible keeping both hands on wheel while with some unrealistic 180 wheel turning it is very possible. Biggest problem is that dfp likes to come loose after lap or two and I need to tighten it few times before it stays well attached, don't know if anyone else has this trouble and if it is fixed in G25?

It is far easier to catch slides with less rotation but it is not realistic that's why I have set dfp to 720-900 degrees and from car setup same setting too.

Its a slippery slope though. I would say LFS is a bit too easy over the limit at the current state of physics, so it might very well be drivable with a DFP at 720 or 900 degrees. I think its wrong however if you call it realistic with LFS *trying* to turn the wheel FAST which the wheel can't do coz of its poor mechanics...

You see I'd say realism is only when the wheel can turn approximately as fast as the sim wants it to. Wether or not it is drivable with 'too slow' wheels like the DFP is not the issue! I wouldn't call it more realistic in that case.. LFS is just fairly easy to catch slide after slide..

Quote from JTbo :

....Biggest problem is that dfp likes to come loose after lap or two and I need to tighten it few times before it stays well attached...

Do you mean it comes loose from the desk? If so, get a piece of that rubbery netting that you put under rugs on a slippery floor. Place it between the wheel and desk and I promise your wheel wont move AT ALL.