I can't find anything on this, so forgive me if it has been pointed out before:

You know the personal level of driving that you can select noob,ok,quick and pro(forgive me if thats not the exact wording I'm not at LFS atm), if this level was automaticly selected for a driver depending on his lap times against current WR times in LFSW, and drivers could only join servers that matched their cradentials, eg. noob drivers on noob servers, pro drivers on pro servers.

This new driver level system would give new drivers a new every-day goal to better their lap times in hope to make it onto the next "level" server.
(Started new thread as requested by Hyperactive

Really good idea.......

I would be with the noobs though


H (Jack Bauer)

While this could work out (or not), I don't think adding a new layer of separation is going to make public racing any better, at least not with the driver counts we currently have. It would just make finding a race frustrating for new players, and what's the point of that?

Not an entirely bad idea, but there is a problem:

How do you learn and improve if you're always against people of equal or lesser skill?

Putting all the noobs together will result in nobody learning anything and being stuck at that level forever.

Nooo. This has been proposed several times and always got negative reactions. IMO, this would put many new drivers off.

If I were new, I would want to race with the faster drivers and learn from them, so I get better myself, too. With this system, this would be impossible. Any selection about who is able to get on one server and who isnt because of driving experience or skill is very bad and only harms the game, IMO.

Quote from Dajmin :

Not an entirely bad idea, but there is a problem:

How do you learn and improve if you're always against people of equal or lesser skill?

Putting all the noobs together will result in nobody learning anything and being stuck at that level forever.

Well good point, but as far as beenig stuck on a noob server(level) you won't, because as soon as you reach the next level lap times you can then race on "OK" or "pro"!
The only reason I suggested this is because there are a lot of people who feel most of the servers are too "elitest" or "too fast", having these drivers on servers with other drivers of the same "class" would make for some great close racing.
@zeugnimod : Where has it been suggested? Imo, drivers in the same class would have more time for one and other, learning from one and other, as I can't see a quick driver stopping to guide a noob around the track!
Also, Imo this system would not harm the game! but rather give an extra goal/insentive to better one's times in hope to climb the ranks!

I'll just agree with AndroidXP's points and take the time to point out that being a courteous backmarker is as much an underestimated art as overtaking much slower backmarkers without causing an incident is. So, mixing it up gives room for practice for both.

Some league, team and supervised servers already do make distinctions though based on times.

EDIT:
Initially I read the title as "Drivel Lever" - sadly, I was disappointed upon re-reading it.

It'd be great to watch, but trying to find a good server to play on can be hard enough already

I think the driver levels shold be kept to offline play, when the AI get better maybe they'll have more meaning.

Quote from CSU1 :

@zeugnimod : Where has it been suggested? Imo, drivers in the same class would have more time for one and other, learning from one and other, as I can't see a quick driver stopping to guide a noob around the track!

I cant either, but thats not, what I meant. They learn by watching the better drivers and also see the lines, they take, when other drivers are around. They surely get better faster like this than by driving against others, who are not that experienced either.

And seperating by lap times is even worse IMO. A fast racer isnt automatically also a clean racer.

Quote from Dajmin :

It'd be great to watch, but trying to find a good server to play on can be hard enough already

Well thats exactly what this system would do! It would bring together drivers of the same class, half a dozen drivers on this server, half a dozen on another is no good, At least you could identify which server is hosting "your Class"!

I don't care about class, I care about racing and it's hard enough to find a server now. I see most people race in leagues and the servers are empty or locked for practice. Seems like there's less ppl playing than eevr and you want to seeprate them further? Also someone that can hotlap at a certain time might be totally crap at racing at that time.

When I was new I learnt from the quick people.

Now I am less slow, I am pleased to help people when I can, either actively or just as they watch. Seperating them won't add anything to LFS - noobs will just stay as noobs.

Okay, so we'll have to put up with a few more T1 accidents this way (the majority ARE caused by newer, slower players), but I think I'd rather shift-r a few times than segregate people like this.

However, I think that a a new system could work: We currently have votebans and votekicks. Why not votespectate? Why not votestartfrompitlanes? That way people who just keeping making silly errors can be removed from the stress of T1 without much disadvantage, or removed from the track without kicking them off the server. Okay, it'll never be as good as full admin overviews (TinyK remains the best admin), but it's a start.

Quote from Davo :

I don't care about class, I care about racing and it's hard enough to find a server now. I see most people race in leagues and the servers are empty or locked for practice. Seems like there's less ppl playing than eevr and you want to seeprate them further?

I don't think the word "seperate" is the best term to describe it...more like sorting the fast from the slow...at the end of the day it doesn't look like ppl are too keen on this one but I just thought it would solve the problem for those slower drivers among us who enjoy really close racing and not getting cheesed off because the rest of the grid has dissapeared off into the horizon

sort
-verb
to separate or take from other sorts or from others

If the slow guys are sick fo eating dust operhaps they shoudl take your advice and practice offline to get better times and then race witht he big boys?

Quote from Davo :

If the slow guys are sick fo eating dust operhaps they shoudl take your advice and practice offline to get better times and then race witht he big boys?

And learn from what? The AI?

Quote from CSU1 :

...I just thought it would solve the problem for those slower drivers among us who enjoy really close racing and not getting cheesed off because the rest of the grid has dissapeared off into the horizon

Thats the wrong attitude IMO. They should be even more motivated then to become faster themselves and be there with the people, that previously disappeared in the horizon. For me, it is like that (although I hardly achieve that ). Im always feeling good, if I managed to keep an alien behind me for some laps.

And its not like there are only very fast and very slow drivers. The "class" between these 2 has as much close racing as the faster class. And I belong to that "average" class, so I saw it by myself.

Quote from Davo :

sort
-verb
to separate or take from other sorts or from others

If the slow guys are sick fo eating dust operhaps they shoudl take your advice and practice offline to get better times and then race witht he big boys?

Yes, yes I know I was just saying that seperate puts a mindset of even more servers with only two or three drivers on each of them going around looking for a race and wondering where everyone is,ffs at any given time there's probably 20 drivers jumping from server going round in circles, where as the above would bring all you guys together for BETTER/CLOSER racing, which is what racing is all about!
Practicing off-line is not a bad idea, but whats the point of that when there could be a server dedicated to hosting "new" drivers giving them a better racing experiance.
I understand the guys pointing out that "new drivers will learn from faster drivers, watching their lines etc"", but at the end of the day being the fastes on track does not mean that you've had a GOOD/Close battle against the guys behind you> hence the "Class segragation" suggestion!

Learning offline would be a great way to learn if the AI was better. But as it stands you can't learn anything from them - unless you want to practice 75% throttle control

I also think that we need better tutorials. It's fine saying "race as fast as you can from A to B", but if the optimum line was shown as a red stripe on the track it would be much better.

Or maybe some of the "better" drivers should offer regular classes to show new or slower players the lines and speeds. It wouldn't be hard to do.

Quote from xaotik :

I'll just agree with AndroidXP's points and take the time to point out that being a courteous backmarker is as much an underestimated art as overtaking much slower backmarkers without causing an incident is. So, mixing it up gives room for practice for both.

Some league, team and supervised servers already do make distinctions though based on times.

EDIT:
Initially I read the title as "Drivel Lever" - sadly, I was disappointed upon re-reading it.

ROFL, so what the hell was your post about? and what is a driver lever ?

I know it can be frustrating at times just wanting to play online and there's pretty packed server on a combo you;ve never tried before but hey there's people onmline and oh so happy to see therm! So you jump on and spectate a few laps and decide hey i can do this only to find yourself last and crashing on every corner despite your best efforts.

Unfortunately that's the way this game works, you need to spend time offline not racing AI but yourself, before yuo can go out and have fun and battle for the midfield or race for 1st place. Then you can actually keep up with the fastest guy for half a lap and realise that you've been taking turn 3 all wrong and its done another way. By having slow and fast people on the server the slow people learn to be faster and the fast people learn to overtake/lap and teach the noobs by sending sets, giving tips etc

Putting all the noobs that don't bother to learn properly into one server would only cause chaos, look at the demo servers for example. There'd be the nooby noobs that just want to race and win in turn1, then there'd be the noobs that really want to race but can;'t because some other noob wrecked them. Then there'd the be the faster drivers who go into the slow server to piss everyone off and win al the time lol

wow my imagination got the best of me there, but you see my point fully explained

The issues that people like to identify as being problems on public servers can not be related to how fast they can drive. Racecraft, including awareness of the position of your car and others, is usually the area where racers need to improve. I've seen plenty of fast lappers who are nothing but hazard in a race situation. There are plenty of fast drivers who know nothing of race rules, or etiquette either.

The real task we should be undertaking as a community is self-education in the areas of racecraft and understanding why rules help every driver on the track. This is an enormous task that would become even bigger as the community continues to grow. I don't think there is a huge problem with people learning to control the cars, the problem is in how they behave in relation to other drivers and the track itself. Speed comes with a lot of practice but knowledge can be gained right away. Teach people how to race cleanly and fairly, helping them to understand the rewards for doing so.

I agree, a far more important indicator of a driver's skill is how they behave among other cars, rather than their hotlap times.

I think I've been taken out more often by careless quick drivers than by careless slow drivers actually. Some drivers seem to treat servers as their own private hotlapping session and resent having to share the track with other people: once I saw a guy at a public South Classic/FOX server actually try to order people out of his way because he was going for a WR. Then he started vote-spamming to end the race so he could turn wind off because it was costing him time, much to the amusement of everyone else. He didn't last long

Key number one for the beginner. You have to learn the track layouts. You can't go into a race coming up on a turn and have no idea whether it goes left or right. Oops, it's a left hand turn. You just took out 2 others because you started going right.

You also have to learn the quirks of the car well enough not to get surprised by it's behavior. A good example of that is getting stuck mid start grid in the F08 and just spinning it around taking everyone behind you out right at the start.

Once you have the track layout down and have reasonable control over how the car performs, then you will start learning from racing with other more experienced drivers, chasing the more experienced drivers, and watching the more experienced drivers.

By segregating skill levels on the servers, it is very possible to be stuck as you won't have any help in getting around the track faster. Some can figure it out all on their own and some can't. Those who can't just need to be able to see the proper racing line to learn. You won't see that sitting on servers with nothing but others who are in the same boat as you.

It can be very easy to improve by huge amounts as a beginner. As you improve though, further improvements get smaller and smaller until one day, you go nuts about a 0.2 second improvement. At this point, the improvement only comes from racing with the faster guys and seeing very small variations in their driving and lines than your's. If you are the smokin fast one in the lesser skilled bunch, it could be quite difficult to improve without those superfast guys on the servers.

Quote from CSU1 :

as I can't see a quick driver stopping to guide a noob around the track!

Then you obviously haven't seen me out on the track. With Aston Nat holding 15 car races in the US and all other tracks only seeing 2-3 connections, I often find myself 10+ seconds faster than those small servers (because I can't stand to do another lap at Aston). I'll have them spectate me as I run a few laps, maybe send them a setup as they are usually using the stock sets. I see "noobs" all the time on the servers and help out a lot of the time I spend in the evenings on the servers.