Silly thing, 40 or 50 really not important, there is sure drivers on that area that are more dangerous doing 30 and nothing is done to them, only speed, speed, speed, nobody seem to be interested on situation or how car is driven. Same thing over here too.

wow.. glad i dont live in england then

@tristan; are you talking about the book 1984?
ah.. nevermind i just saw that (im reading that book)

Not sure if it was just on the news up here but I remember not too long ago that a police officer got off with excessive speeding by saying he was `practicing` :/

Quote :

That's the only point I've been trying to make - we (in the UK) should be glad that we are so against a policeman speeding unnecessarily... our police force are, seemingly, largely in order (in the department of misconduct).

No we shouldn't? I'm not glad of the UK police at all. I DO NOT feel safe. I've had my car done 3 times in the last 6 months and even when I handed CCTV footage and boot prints to the police they just filed the case.

You say it's a seperate issue, but I disagree. If confidence in the British police force was not already so undermined then people would stomach a little corruption here and there.

The problem is the police are NOT doing a good job, crime IS rampant, and many citizens DO NOT feel safe or protected anymore. So when we hear about cops bending the law to their own ends it just gets our back up even more.

The police have invested heavily in increasing detection rates of every day crime, that is to say, offenses by everyday people such as speading. Yet they have not stemmed the tide of serious crime and the justice system is so innept that repeat offenders are not in the least bit worried about getting caught, even if that where remotely likely (which usually it isnt).

People outside our country wonder why we are in uproar over a speeding ticket getting ignored, but when you consider that civil law is only for the rich and criminal law is only enforced when its against a bank and then you have a case like this rammed down your throught - it's pretty dissapointing.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Incidentally: Try stopping and taking a picture of every CCTV camera you see (use a digital camera unless you want to spend £9Bn on film in an afternoon) and see how long it takes for someone to get all pissy at you for it. When that person does confront you, take lots of photos of him while he's telling you why you can't do it.

ROFL!

Quote from SamH :

Been there, did that. I'm frustrated, as well, because everyone around me shrugs.. as if it's not weird! It's freaky! I'm waiting for them to launch HMS George Orwell, next.

LOL As much as people watch/read stories about these future dystopic societies and talk about stupid they are, you would think that they would be able to catch the beginnings of it now. Seems to me most people want a communist country, but add in elections to make it seem like a democracy... Maybe that's just how I see it though, with my cynical nature and all..

Quote from the_angry_angel :

To give you an idea, since those outside of the UK aren't "getting it"; if a normal citizen had done it, they would've been fined, given penalty points, strung up and tarred in the gallows as Eric Arthur Blair rolls over in his grave, whilst the rest of the populous sit back as the government condemns that man to live forever in the panopticon that Britain is becoming.

Oh... I thought you guys just had fines and a demerit points system. My bad. What do you get for a second offence? Britain still crack out the gallows pole?

The officials are going to get such a thrashing for this, they will probably just fire the guy to avoid the inevitable riots. That's what happens over here a lot it seems.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

So even police chief constables talk about speed cameras in terms of slowing down until you've got past them. What a dickhead.
[/size]

Now THAT I must say made me laugh. I caught it when I read the article, too, but there's just something about the way you use your words. Ever thought about becomming a comedian?

Quote from al heeley :

If you look at the number of people killed or injured by small fire arms in the US each year and compare it with Europe, then it's us that don't understand your gun laws. There's something like a tenfold increase in gun-related crime per head of population in the US compared to Europe. Who's gun law works best?
Sped cameras in the UK generate significant revenue, though not many of them are loaded with film at any one time, we have about 3500 of them around, and they mostly stay intact.

LOL They always like to tell you about the gun crime... yet y'all never ever hear of when the gun is used by the owner as defense... Except Bernard Goetz

I've used a Handgun twice to scare off would be burgulars (a danwesson .357 with a 8" barrel) - once while I was playing LFS. I made a joke for a while that LFS was totally realistic, I had to drive with a gun under the seat.

Oh and increase in gun-related crime? look at the statisics on the UK from 1995 til now.
Your Country really freaked out when that one guy went nut's in "86(?) and strolled down the street with a shot gun killing a few people. Your country banned Shotguns instantly. I think it was shotguns. As if the whole nation was on the verge of going on a rampage. That law didn't stop gun crime over there, I don't think it didn't even slowed it down. But it might have led to a homeowner being stabbed to death

Here in Texas, a guy wigged out and killed like 22 people at a restaurant,
We went the other way with that and now have concealed weapons permits. You see there were so many decent law-abiding types in the restaurant that would've been able to stop him, but their guns were locked in their cars, so they too became victims. I'll admit it ain't the ultimate crime deterrent, but it does seem to help some.

It's like what they say here, if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have them.
The country just south of me has some of the strictest gun laws on the planet.... 10 years ago we would make a weekend trip to Nuevo Laredo, $30 hotel stay for the weekend, about $2.50 for a T-bone steak dinner... Anyways look that place up nowdays.

I dunno though, you can't just re-legalize them and just throw them out there either... you people would just go nuts on each other if that were to happen. LOL I could imagine soccer games. LOL I could imagine Ms. Rose if see caught the jerk that trashed her car Yeah I'd imagine every stereotype y'all have of the 'Merican Gun Culture would actually get played out over there. I mean face it, most a you folks only know about fire arms from news broadcasts and watching Lethal Weapon 2. Just handing you a gun might not be the best thing to do.
Yeah, the only way for guns in the UK to be reintregated responsibly would
require alot of manhours spent on background checks, on training courses
licensing and maintaining checks on dealers... all that would require more $$$...
And we all know what that means, More damn speeding cameras, and overworked cops on short lunches having to haul ass to the chinese place before his food gets cold.

@All that gun stuff:

It comes down to different cultures and different environments, really. Europe regarding America is: "Oh them crazy gun nuts. Crime statistics show how ill their gun regulation is. No wonder they all kill each other".
Then America looks at us and goes: "They could prevent all that crimes if the general public was armed. Oh you poor Europeans who don't have the right (freedom!) to own a gun. What do you do when you have to defend your home?".

Of course this is very generalised, but both allowing guns in Europe and banning guns in America would be incredibly stupid. The great US of A are already flooded with weapons, so taking away the legal right to own guns would just make one side (the "good" one) unarmed.
Europe is far from being gun-laden. Sure you hear about murder or other crimes committed with guns in the media, but the only time a normal citizen ever sees a gun here is on a police officer (*cough* not in the UK, apparently). It's as if gun related threat doesn't exist here, or at least where I live. There's absolutely no need for owning guns, not even for "defence".

Basically it's the same with guns as it is with cars or even jobs. You need to make sure that person who gets that weapon/car/job won't misuse it. If he has had mental problems, alcohol problems or history of a sexual crimes you don't give him anything that might make things worse for others. The worst thing you can do is give a weapon or car to a alcoholic. The chances that he will end up killing someone is 1000000x compared to normal people. This gets me to the saddest point of the wole car/speeding equation. Instead of being overly interested about small speedings you should really get the people away from the streets who drive drunk. As said earlier many times, the speeding cameras et al are the purest example of money making. It is kind of a joke that you can invest billions to some speeding cameras when the majority of the car accidents (especially from the fatal ones) are caused by a) driving tired b) alcohol c) human error (like driving through red lights without looking etc..)

Quote from thisnameistaken :

I think the problem is that the police have become the government's private army, and they're so busy doing what Westminster wants them to do that there isn't the time or resources for policing any more. They're doing much the same thing to teachers in state schools.

Absolutely. And to those in the medical profession, as well.

As much as I love a bit of antiestablishmentarianism I wouln't go as far as saying the Police are Labour's private army. I think they're too busy doing paperwork and pandering to political statistics for that. I dont actually feel domacratically oppressed, even with the mild news sensorship we have now. It's a moot point, for as long as dead people vote in our elections they really dont need to change my vote.

Quote from MAGGOT :

The officials are going to get such a thrashing for this, they will probably just fire the guy to avoid the inevitable riots. That's what happens over here a lot it seems.

I doubt it somehow.

On a general note, my boss mailed me this picture. Since I was off this week, I've only just had a chance to see it. It was an "I saw this, and thought of you" moment (I cannot believe I've actually quoted something off an advert ).

Heh, nice find TAA. Sad but true. I so love the mental attitude of the masses in council estates. What is the world coming to. At least the poor used to die in the plague or something.

(please don't take that last comment too seriously)

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Incidentally: Try stopping and taking a picture of every CCTV camera you see (use a digital camera unless you want to spend £9Bn on film in an afternoon)

I've been trying to find the legislation (sad bastard that I am), which says you have the right to request any footage or photograph, which has been taken by any governmental body; for free + any media costs. Apparently a few guys have managed to do it, but apparently the local council thinks it costs about £10 for a CD. Sounds more like parts + labour to me. Nevertheless I've failed on this front.

Quote from Becky Rose :

even with the mild news sensorship we have now

I'm not convinced we've truely got mild censorship tbh. Insane dumbing down, yes. Then again.. look at the coverage the BNP get. Perhaps we are living in the world of V for Vendetta (more compariable than 1984, given our current state); only we've got more survelliance.

Oh and talking of which, not only can the CCTV cameras speak to you (figuratively speaking), they've now starting to get microphones as I understand it.

Quote from Bob Smith :

At least the poor used to die in the plague or something.

I've read that 3 times now, and I still laugh. All I've got is the image of the end of the Shaun of the Dead, where all the "zombies" are doing menial jobs, and I have no idea why

Having grown up on, and around council estates, I've gotta say a lot of people aren't like that. Unfortunately theres always the "hardcore" subset of people

As my boss says, going to prison these days is a bit of a bonus in a lot of situations. You could be somewhere far worse;
* No taxes
* No mortage / other commitments
* Relatively safe
* Free housing
* Free food

Oh wait... we were talking about the welfare system.... damn they're so easy to confuse.

Quote from MAGGOT :

Oh... I thought you guys just had fines and a demerit points system. My bad. What do you get for a second offence? Britain still crack out the gallows pole?

The points system can have a big effect. If I had points on my licence, even just 3 (smallest number of points for breaking the speed limit), I wouldn't be considered for a number of jobs, including the one I have now. Your vehicle insurance will cost more, and in extreme cases insurance companies will refuse to quote you for given vehicles (e.g. high power cars/motorbikes).

There's more to it than just getting a number on a piece of paper.

Quote from Racer Y :

It's like what they say here, if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have them.

1. I was never in a situation where I would've needed a gun. And, more importantly, I don't even know _anyone_ who ever was in a situation where he would've needed a gun.
You on the other hand already needed your's twice. That could be, because your country in general is just unsafer - or because everyone has a gun.
Yes, there certainly are people who have guns here. Dealers, mafia, you name it. But when do I meet them? Never. But I do know that neither my neighbor, the wanna-be-gangsters in the street nor virtually anyone I meet has a gun.
Safe enough for me, I don't need a gun.
2. With the same reasoning like yours I could say "Let every country have nuclear bombs, <insert evil country> will have them anyway" or "Why ban heroin, the addicts will get it anyway?".
The whole point of banning things is that the average man won't have it, and people who still have it can safely be classified as what they are: criminals, drug addicts, whatever.

Quote from Christofire :

The points system can have a big effect. If I had points on my licence, even just 3 (smallest number of points for breaking the speed limit), I wouldn't be considered for a number of jobs, including the one I have now. Your vehicle insurance will cost more, and in extreme cases insurance companies will refuse to quote you for given vehicles (e.g. high power cars/motorbikes).

There's more to it than just getting a number on a piece of paper.

Yep, same as here. Although, most places won't decide your work status upon the number of de-merit points you have, Insurance takes a big hit for sure. Anyone from Ontario recall off-hand how many points till your license is revoked? I'm sure the number is far too high, also getting a license is far far too easy... especially considering how many horrible, horrible drivers there are here.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

I think this was generally considered to be covered under the DPA 1998, but has since been through the courts and it was decided that most CCTV images aren't considered personal data and therefore the people being snooped on don't have a right to view that data.

You're joking, right?!

Quote from TheDeppchef :

1. I was never in a situation where I would've needed a gun. And, more importantly, I don't even know _anyone_ who ever was in a situation where he would've needed a gun.
You on the other hand already needed your's twice. That could be, because your country in general is just unsafer - or because everyone has a gun.
Yes, there certainly are people who have guns here. Dealers, mafia, you name it. But when do I meet them? Never. But I do know that neither my neighbor, the wanna-be-gangsters in the street nor virtually anyone I meet has a gun.
Safe enough for me, I don't need a gun.
2. With the same reasoning like yours I could say "Let every country have nuclear bombs, <insert evil country> will have them anyway" or "Why ban heroin, the addicts will get it anyway?".
The whole point of banning things is that the average man won't have it, and people who still have it can safely be classified as what they are: criminals, drug addicts, whatever.

I really think Android hit the nail on the head with this subject.
Liberalizing gun laws in Europe really wouldn't be a good thing.
And I don't think you caught the hook I put in my post. Like the part of what soccer matches would be like.....

LOL that's the difference we have. My neighbor? he took three bullets last year during a robbery about 6 blocks from my house. The wannabe gangsters in my street wannabe making 6 digit incomes with 2 digit IQs. and virtually anyone I meet? LOL they "can safely be classified as what they are: criminals, drug addicts, whatever". (yeah that last part IS an exaggeration. I just thought it sounded funny )

Quote from Racer Y :

And I don't think you caught the hook I put in my post.

Guess we're even then.
My point was that things should be allowed or banned based on whether it makes sense to allow or forbid them, not based on "someone could do it anyway".
I didn't even say guns should be banned (although I think they should). I just pointed out that your argument WHY they should be allowed makes no sense at all.
I don't criticize you for having a gun either, you are probably better off with it. I merely wanted to make you think WHY you need one, when I clearly don't.
Obviously banning guns only makes sense, if you can enforce it - and it's really too late to do it in the US.

Edit: Oh, and when I said "nor virtually anyone I meet.." I really meant "Nobody I meet has a gun" and not "Everybody you meet has a gun"