I have been testing demos this weekend. I tested rFactor, GT Legends and netKarPro.

It has made me realise how good the FF and physics are in LFS. GT Legends was the best of the three IMO. The graphics were nice but what really made it for me was the sound. It was excellent.

rFactor I had problems with the FF. It seemed to work in reverse with some kind of wierd 'anti centering' pushing the wheel away from the centre instead of vice-versa. I checked all the settings but couldn't see anything so gave up on this pretty quickly.

NetKarPro just had no FF feel at all. Graphics weren't up to much either.

What we need is the sound and graphics of GTL and the physics of LFS and we'd have a great game.

Anyone played any other demos I should try?

You could do the GTR/GTR2/Race-demo-tour after you already checked GTL. Other content, same game.

I have the full version of GTL, and I'd say that the FFB is horrible. It feels remotely connected to what a car feels like, but on some cars it just completely fails, like the 911. Propably because of the weight distribution.
By the way I think that driving GTL is dangerous to your driving. In GTL it's a good strategy to pump the throttle to gain grip (the game thinks that there is weight transition and adds grip to the rear wheels).
It's a similar stupid thing as the diff in LFS. In LFS it's a good strategy to keep a few percent of throttle on to power-lock the diff, in real life you just decrease the possible lateral acceleration that way.

But the Nordschleife 1.0 of GTL is well done, which is why I have that game. I don't drive it in any powerful car though, because those are just too far off.

Vain

Quote from thisnameistaken :

I've tried nearly all the demos and still the only other sims I play are LFS and RBR.

That's my conclusion, too. Be it GTR, GTR2, GTL, rFactor, netKar, or whatever else, right now there's no real contender to our beloved two. I'd say netKar comes closest regarding driving physics and feel, but the rest of the sim is about as appealing as a pile of dog excrements.

No idea regarding N2003, because I have no interest in NASCAR whatsoever, and GPL is a big "?" too, as the demo was/is kinda buggy on my machine (crashes + weird speedup/slowdown all of a sudden - probably related to the dynamic CPU stepping of Cool 'n Quiet) and in the time it worked it didn't feel very impressive to me.

Let's see what the future brings - good ones seem to be DR, iRacing and maybe netKar if it ever gets above version 0.000001 before Kunos has a nervous breakdown again. Other than these, no idea...

odyssey by car...?

Quote from thisnameistaken :

I couldn't get the GT Legends demo to work - StarForce decided I was doing something naughty and rebooted my computer, and if I'd had an address for anybody who'd worked on StarForce I would've been round there with a hockey mask and a bat. Shame, because that game looked interesting.

Try again mate. My mate and I both had the same problem and it's to do with processors with 64-bit capability. There is a fix you can download. Go here to get the SFUPDATE tool - http://www.star-force.com/protection/users/ to downlaod it. Well worth a try this demo and I will buy the full game even with it's shortcomings.

What is RBR btw?

in rF you have to set FF to -100% or something you want but with "-"

Quote from ekze :

in rF you have to set FF to -100% or something you want but with "-"

aah - OK I'll try that tonight.

Quote from Gentlefoot :

What is RBR btw?

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Richard Burns Rally. Do yourself a favour, go here and spend a fiver on it. Shipping is free.

I would've said "burn the witch", but this is an acceptable answer, too

Must...resist...buying...

your better off if you dont bother with the isi sims at all they just feel off in every aspect

so the only sims of interest are:
gpl and nr2k3 with the gtp mod both of which a pretty good but you can tell their age in every second
rbr great sim but i just suck a rallying so i never really bothered
nkp solid physics and good ffb (minus the badly done effects like understeer) but god awefull sopport and coding
and finally dr which is every bit as good as rbr but feels a lot like its not there yet much like nkp and lfs s1 ... obviously thats forgiveable since its still in ealy alpha stage

Quote from thisnameistaken :

It's a fiver. I know you're Scottish but c'mon, it's a fiver!

Cheeky swine
It's not the money that's the issue here, it's the fact that I don't have time to play the games I already have

/slaps hand away from "Buy Now" button.

And back on topic.

If we're ignoring "pure" sims for the moment (and obviously nobody minds Starf*rce all that much) I still enjoy TOCA3 as an arcade job. Even with all the driving aids off and all the sim options on, it retains that arcade feel. Full damage modelling and a zillion different cars and styles to choose from.

Can anyone tell me whether it's worth me buying GTR2 without seeing the demo. If the graphics and sound are as good as GT Legends then I'll get a copy.

Why don't you simply try the demo?

For me, as I get my enjoyment purely from the realistic physics and FF, GTR2 would be a waste of money. But it's only like 20$, so it wouldn't be much wasted money...

Quote from Gentlefoot :

Can anyone tell me whether it's worth me buying GTR2 without seeing the demo. If the graphics and sound are as good as GT Legends then I'll get a copy.

I suggest you to buy the new WTCC RACE game.
http://www.race-game.org/

No, don't buy race. It's like all of the other ISI sims, but with any good bits extracted and thrown away.

If you HAVE to get a new sim, at least get GTR2, throw away the default slip curves, ignore the 'realistic replacements', and ask our Axus or Todd to make you some decent ones.

If you HAVE to get a new sim, and are prepared to gamble A LOT with your money, then nKP is still the closest driving experience to LFS. In a year or two (or more) of continued non-hard work by Stefano and his band of lazy beta-testers it could well be a half-decent simulator. As I say, it's a gamble, but right now it's no worse that GTR2 either on or offline.

Don't bother with rFactor - they but most of the game available for purchase, but forgot the physics engine. At the last minute the cleaning woman had to hack together one for it, and sell it as it was.

Does GTR2 use Starforce copy protection? I thought about getting it myself, but the thought of adding another SF app on my system fills me with hate

not in GTR2 - but GTR1 does!

Thank the gods for that. Maybe I'll look into getting a copy then

Quote from Vain :

You could do the GTR/GTR2/Race-demo-tour after you already checked GTL. Other content, same game.

I have the full version of GTL, and I'd say that the FFB is horrible. It feels remotely connected to what a car feels like, but on some cars it just completely fails, like the 911. Propably because of the weight distribution.
By the way I think that driving GTL is dangerous to your driving. In GTL it's a good strategy to pump the throttle to gain grip (the game thinks that there is weight transition and adds grip to the rear wheels).
It's a similar stupid thing as the diff in LFS. In LFS it's a good strategy to keep a few percent of throttle on to power-lock the diff, in real life you just decrease the possible lateral acceleration that way.

But the Nordschleife 1.0 of GTL is well done, which is why I have that game. I don't drive it in any powerful car though, because those are just too far off.

Vain

Vain, same thing for me, I bought GTL just so then when my friends come over, they don't get mad because LFS is too hard for them, and I really love the Nordschleife, but thats became the only reason I'll fire up GTL now.

Quote from AndroidXP :

Why don't you simply try the demo?

For me, as I get my enjoyment purely from the realistic physics and FF, GTR2 would be a waste of money. But it's only like 20$, so it wouldn't be much wasted money...

Tried trying the demo this weekend. Had trouble finding a download link other than premium-pay ones. Found two slow ones (20kbps) waited 4 hours and then it timed out. Hence I haven't tried the demo.

My question is this. Are the graphics and sound as good as GTL? I don't care too much about physics, I want another game like GTL for the fun factor.

Already tried rFactor and nkPro - see 1st post.

I'd say the graphics should be pretty equal, if not better in GTR2. And if you don't mind the physics, go for it. Like I said, it's not like ~18£ are much to cry over, so...

You say you had no FFB in nK? That's odd, as I actually like the FFB in that sim. It's not quite as good as LFS's overall, but it does have some nice aspects to it, and it's very useable. I suspect you've not fiddled enough it it - try increasing the FFB % in nK options.

I actually have to rethink something I said earlier about steering feel - i.e. it going all light and mushy with lots of understeer. I was adament that this doesn't happen in real life, and indeed on road cars and karts it's not something I've ever been able to recreate. But driving the F3 car at Brands and Lydden I noticed it happening on the two hairpins. Too much lock (trying to cope with the understeer), and it DOES go all light and fluffy all of a sudden. This is something that LFS doesn't do (and I thought that was correct) but something that nK does (which I now know to be correct, but only so far in racing cars, not road cars). I think the ISI sims have this as a canned effect, which of course no one could possibly enjoy prior to brain removal.

Quote from tristancliffe :

You say you had no FFB in nK? That's odd, as I actually like the FFB in that sim. It's not quite as good as LFS's overall, but it does have some nice aspects to it, and it's very useable. I suspect you've not fiddled enough it it - try increasing the FFB % in nK options.

I did have FF but not much feel. Not compared with LFS anyway. I'll give nK another go - got a bit hacked off with it cos it took me ages to work out how to start a race, then ages to work out how to start the car, then ages working out how to configure the controls. So I didn't try it for long. lol

Quote from thisnameistaken :

I also had problems with the GPL demo - mostly a repeating crash noise that won't go away. And like you I just can't seem to get into it, it feels a bit simplistic and it's hard to find a good line around Watkins Glen because the track doesn't seem detailed enough to pick reliable braking points and so on

Although I love GPL to bits, its probably not a 'pick it up and try' sort of thing - there are any number of graphics updates that improve the spartan originals and there are all kinds of tweaks and patches that need to be installed.

But with the original '67 cars, the '65 mod, and the winged '69s you get a lot in return for a little bit of faffing about.

And its the only sim I can run, that doesn't go into apoplexy with a full grid of twenty cars....

I can agree, LFS and RBR should be all you need. The best physics on the market between them (although RBR is naff on tarmac, there's very little of that in the game anyway).

I find RBR a lot harder to drive than LFS, but I suspect that is also due to the massive difference in wheel time with both games.