This prolly should go to Improvements Section but after 3rd consecutive win by BMW in ETCC/WTCC I just couldn't resist.

While devs established cooperation with BMW Motorsports and we have BF1 that would be great feature to have the one from WTCC also. Well it sounds like gimmegimmegimme moaning for real car but I have the reason - I think LFS (opposite to ISI games) is the only game that could implement properly new feature of dynamic camber (that is getting negative relatively to turn, btw. I couldnt google tech specs for that, anyone plz).

Of course there are many many pros and cons - it is great to have model of a real car, maybe not all the people it attracts (blink blink nawz dorifto), it is fun to have new car but the TBO class will need new balancing (to around 190bhp/ton).
And biggest problem is that opposite to F1 BMW touring prolly does not need extra promotion.

But, well, I thought it is idea to share...

If I understood right what you said, you want dynamic camber? We have that already, just press Shift+L and you'll see...
If that wasn't it, please explain what you meant

I have to agree, that just sounds like the caster setting. However, he's talking about the rear wheels, not the front.

So are you saying they get rear caster without having four wheel steering, or do they have four wheel steering also?

as i understand it, its more "So LFS has got a BMW licenced in it already, can we have another licened BMW? By the way its got dynamic camber which might be hard to implement"

But as far as i know the BF1 licence is from Sauber, not BMW, as BMW just supply the engine.

Quote from matt_green84 :

as i understand it, its more "So LFS has got a BMW licenced in it already, can we have another licened BMW? By the way its got dynamic camber which might be hard to implement"

But as far as i know the BF1 licence is from Sauber, not BMW, as BMW just supply the engine.

BMW owns sauber now.


the Sauber F1 is run by BMW Sauber and was put into LFS to request from their sponsors in order to do the Intel Racing Challenge thingy. therefore we cannot conclude that there is a real connection between the BMW Sauber F1 team and the LFS devs.

furthermore, the WTCC efforts are run by Belgian Team RBM (priaulx "Team UK car") and Schnitzer Motorsport (both müller's "BMW Team Germany" cars.)
thus there is hardly any connection between the F1 programme and the WTCC one, except that both use BMW cars...


apart from that however, i'd love to see something like a WTCC class in LFS. i think that would make for an extremely rewarding racing experience. something inbetween the GTR class and the TBO class, not quite as powerful as the GTRs, but with the same slick tyres and a bit more nimble, which would allow for very tight racing.

BMWs, like Porsches, have semi-trailing arm rear suspension (at least on the older ones). If I understand the geometry correctly, the wheel is toed out and cambered negatively as the suspension compresses.

Quote from vladimir :

apart from that however, i'd love to see something like a WTCC class in LFS. i think that would make for an extremely rewarding racing experience. something inbetween the GTR class and the TBO class, not quite as powerful as the GTRs, but with the same slick tyres and a bit more nimble, which would allow for very tight racing.

*cough* UFR, XFR *cough*

Althouth they need a RWD competitor... And a better differential model!

Quote from Forbin :

BMWs, like Porsches, have semi-trailing arm rear suspension (at least on the older ones). If I understand the geometry correctly, the wheel is toed out and cambered negatively as the suspension compresses.

thx Forbin for help with vocabulary.

In fact concept is like 40 years old but as I heard it is still used in E90. And still this IS an argument that LFS is the only online racing sim able to model that

Quote from bbman :

*cough* UFR, XFR *cough*

Althouth they need a RWD competitor... And a better differential model!

except that they need a tad more power, a little stickier tyres, a bit of downforce and they should be sedans.

Quote from vladimir :

except that they need a tad more power, a little stickier tyres, a bit of downforce and they should be sedans.

Read: BTCC or any other touring car series.

Quote from AndRand :

thx Forbin for help with vocabulary.

In fact concept is like 40 years old but as I heard it is still used in E90. And still this IS an argument that LFS is the only online racing sim able to model that

Ya, i don't rely on what i 'hear', took me 10 seconds to get actual facts on that one.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/sho ... _1230&hg=33&fg=30

That is in no way a 'trailing arm' suspension. Sure it has a 'trailing arm' link, but this is a modern multi-link suspension.

My old E30 on the other hand DOES have a trailing arm arangement at the rear. It's very similar to old 911s, for example, and
is the last model to use a basic trailing arm rear suspension.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/sho ... _0213&hg=33&fg=30


I thought he was talking about compliant bushings and not suspension geometry. Like the old 928, one of the first
to use this, many cars use bushings, flexible only under a certain load and angle, that allows the wheel to get more
toe-in (usually) as the outside tires get loaded. I believe it's also referred to as passive-steering.

Quote from vladimir :

except that they need a tad more power, a little stickier tyres, a bit of downforce and they should be sedans.

Nooooooooooooooooo there is no need for downforce, we have enough downforce cars at the moment

Serious note, the UFR and XFR do need some RWDs added to the class.

We also a car with MORE power and LESS grip... 1960F1 car would be great fun and would probably pull in much of the GPL community to LFS.

Wasn't the Sauber F1 deal made through Intel? if yes, Dell sponsors most of the WTCC BMW teams (Priaulx and the Müllers) and guess which company Dell is tied to the most

Quote from Fonnybone :

Ya, i don't rely on what i 'hear', took me 10 seconds to get actual facts on that one

I must admit I "heard" that on WTCC tv magazine. ok, I know E90 has five-arm multi link axle (with trailing arm) as shown in KW catalogue but why is rear camber going negative not according to load under accelerating (as it would with much simpler suspension) but to turn - as was described (in WTCC magazine) to get camber zero on straight (and accelerating) and negative during turn? :faint:

Quote from AndRand :

(...) but why is rear camber going negative not according to load under accelerating (as it would with much simpler suspension) but to turn - as was described (in WTCC magazine) to get camber zero on straight (and accelerating) and negative during turn? :faint:

Well, it's the basic principle behind unequal-lenght a-arms (F1 cars are a good example). The lower link is longer, so,
obviously, the top one is shorter and therefore moves around a smaller diameter. As the suspension moves up, the
shorter link pulls on the wheel 'sooner' giving negative camber. Most suspensions in LFS use either unequal-lenght a-arms
or McPhearson struts. There might still be that solid axle from the early days on the rear of the XFR, but i'm not sure.

Quote from Fonnybone :

There might still be that solid axle from the early days on the rear of the XFR, but i'm not sure.

it is the s1 suspension since its still the closest thing to a trailing arm the seemingly strictly lateral arm model supports