I have a problem with the new Logitech G25 wheel. It performs awsome apart from one big thing. The wheel keeps applying the opposite lock by itself and since I hate any artificial help in race simulators it drives me crazy. Does anyone know how to get rid of that annoyance? I use all effects settings on 100% both generic and LFS. I looks like LFS specific problem because with Richard Burns Rally it works ok. Thank you for any suggestions.

I'm not sure what you mean, but in the game try to set the FFB settings to inverted.

Perhaps you'll have to be a bit more specific about the problem.

Partially automatical countersteering is realistic. I like telling the story of my race driver's license course where I deliberately braked late into a corner at some 90km/h. Rear came around, I let go of the wheel to see what happens, the things spins around wildly in the direction of opposite lock, the rear comes back into place and woosh, I'm going back in a straight line. (i.e. not the turn, but where I tried it there was endless run-off, so I had enough space.)

So please be more specific so we see wether you are talking about real life physics or some problem with the force feedback.
Did you have a force feedback wheel before the G25? Did it behave differently?

Vain

Where do I invert FFB in LFS?
I have never experienced the car opposite locking itself in real life, I'm not talking it's not possible though. As for LFS, yes I have had FFB wheels before - red MOMO, and never experienced this effect. I believe it's a problem with FFB in the game. It looks like this, I am driving at some high speed and suddenly my tail begins to slide righwards, the wheel turns by itself to opposite lock, then the tail slides left and wheel opposite locks as well - by itself and sometimes it even catches the slide!!! you will not experience such behavior in real life I guess

Well, from your description it could be a problem or that could be correct. Make sure you have disabled all the extra effects in the Logitech control panel.

Centre spring, spring effect and damper effect should all be at zero.

Quote from jankes :

It looks like this, I am driving at some high speed and suddenly my tail begins to slide righwards, the wheel turns by itself to opposite lock, then the tail slides left and wheel opposite locks as well - by itself and sometimes it even catches the slide!!! you will not experience such behavior in real life I guess

Then tell me please how I could have percieved the steering wheel going for opposite lock all by itself, with my hands right in the air, and the car catching the slide all by itself, when it's actually not possible according to you.
It was a BMW E30, I'm waiting.

If you go off the throttle early enough (below 30° car heading/direction of travel angle for a front heavy saloon car), the car stabilizes itself automatically.

Vain

From my point of view il looks like some kind of steering help which applies opposite lock whenever the driver is in trouble which is unacceptable.

That's a car from the 1980s. It has only ABS and power steering.

I did a similar thing in a 1986 Porsche 944, which has neither ABS nor power steering, but it wasn't quite as beautiful as in the track-example above.

Vain

It doesn't matter from the point of view of my problem. The car can catch first slide, but when the car flips to the other side - I don't think so, and that's what I meant. Anyway like I said, it won't solve my problem. When I turn off the FFB in LFS the problem is gone. once the FFB is on the wheel steers the car almost by itself, in those dangerous situations of course.

Quote from jankes :

From my point of view il looks like some kind of steering help which applies opposite lock whenever the driver is in trouble which is unacceptable.

AFAIK, there's no such stabilising code in LFS for analogue steering devices - only when using keyboard.

See:

Quote from www.liveforspeed.net :

LFS S2 is a serious racing simulator. No arcade modes, no steering aids - YOU have to do the driving.

You obviuosly haven't lost the back and let go of the steering wheel when driving your road car. Just watch a drift video, they let go of the wheel for a moment as it wants to auto correct and is faster that turning it by hand even.

Just because another game doesn't do this doesn't mean it's not real or correct.

I know about LFS being serious simulator, that's why I play it and as I said I have never experienced such issue with previous wheel. Interesting that no G25 owner reported such problem, may be my configuration specific problem.

No I tihnk you misunderstand that it's supposed to happen. I feel it as well and it is accurate because it happens in real life as well. Easiest way is just to do a hand brakey in the car park with the wheel turned, you'll notice it turn the other way when the car starts to spin around.

Maybe the feeling is stronger now with the G25 that's why you feel it more? I know I turn the FF down and sometimes drive with it completely off so I don't have to fight the FF.

Quote from Davo :

You obviuosly haven't lost the back and let go of the steering wheel when driving your road car. Just watch a drift video, they let go of the wheel for a moment as it wants to auto correct and is faster that turning it by hand even.

Just because another game doesn't do this doesn't mean it's not real or correct.

Believe me I HAVE lost the back of my car many times, although I have never took part in drifting contest. Their cars are different, but still, I am NOT insisting that a car cannot correct by itself. It can, but only to some extent, this being only the first slide, once the car flips to the other side it will just spin.

No one seems to understand my problem. I am not trying to convince any one that self corection is not right but only to some extent. The way it looks here is like some kind of auto opposite lock was turned on.

Quote from jankes :

No one seems to understand my problem. I am not trying to convince any one that self corection is not right but only to some extent. The way it looks here is like some kind of auto opposite lock was turned on.

There is no such feature in LFS or in the G25. What the wheel is doing is coming directly from the physics simulation, and is as accurate as LFS's physics engine and the G25 motor's speed/torque allow.

Go watch any drift video if you want to see what the wheel does when the rear end comes out. Here's one I just googled. You can see him push the wheel in the desired direction, but almost all the countersteering comes from the car itself (the wheel turns much faster than the G25 can).

Quote from jankes :

No one seems to understand my problem. I am not trying to convince any one that self corection is not right but only to some extent. The way it looks here is like some kind of auto opposite lock was turned on.

Have you changed your options in Control panel like Bob told you?
Just put FF strenght to 80, 90 whatever, and everything else at "0" and turned off...

Boris Lozac - yes I have done that but to no avail.

Quote from jankes :

Boris Lozac - yes I have done that but to no avail.

No setting is going to take away that automatic countersteer, unless you turn the FF off, because that's what cars do.

Here's a better example. Watch the very first slide in particular. Note that he doesn't push the wheel, he just lets go of it and lets it countersteer automatically, then catches it at the desired angle. If you don't catch the wheel, it's just going to go all the way to the lock.

Quote from Eric Tetz :

There is no such feature in LFS or in the G25. What the wheel is doing is coming directly from the physics simulation, and is as accurate as LFS's physics engine and the G25 motor's speed/torque allow.

Go watch any drift video if you want to see what the wheel does when the rear end comes out. Here's one I just googled. You can see him push the wheel in the desired direction, but almost all the countersteering comes from the car itself (the wheel turns much faster than the G25 can).

I am aware that there is no such feature in LFS. So why were those effects absent when I was using red MOMO wheel? Besides, the wheel corects even the oversteer while exiting the corner, making user action almost usless. You won't tell me that real GTR car will correct th oversteer on corner exit.

Can you show us a video of your driving? Not in game video, but recorded so that both G25 and LFS are on the screen...
As everyone else said, that is real, and that's how it is in RL..
I thought that maybe you had Center spring ON or something like that, so it interfeers with LFS..

Quote from jankes :

I am aware that there is no such feature in LFS. So why were those effects absent when I was using red MOMO wheel? Besides, the wheel corects even the oversteer while exiting the corner, making user action almost usless. You won't tell me that real GTR car will correct th oversteer on corner exit.

The MOMO wheel is a lot slower, i.e. less realistic. The G25 is still nowhere near as fast as a real car, but it's much closer than the MOMO. What you are seeing is closer to the real thing, not further.

Yes, if you oversteer, if the rear end comes loose, the front wheels are going to be forced into a countersteer. That's just physics.

User action is useless? Try letting go of the wheel and see what happens.

Quote from Eric Tetz :

The MOMO wheel is a lot slower, i.e. less realistic. The G25 is still nowhere near as fast as a real car, but it's much closer than the MOMO. What you are seeing is closer to the real thing, not further.

Yes, if you oversteer, if the rear end comes loose, the front wheels are going to be forced into a countersteer. That's just physics.

User action is useless? Try letting go of the wheel and see what happens.

Heh, that's exactly what I am doing, letting go of the wheel But the car just recovers by itself. That's what's wrong. It corrects even the tiny slides. The wheel applies just the correct ammount of opposite lock to recover the car by itself, that's why I said it looks as if there's some kind of steering help on, but of course there's no such thing in LFS.

Quote from jankes :

Heh, that's exactly what I am doing, letting go of the wheel But the car just recovers but itself. That's what's wrong. It corrects even the tiny slides.

So, the rear end comes loose, the car begins to countersteer, you take your hands off the wheel and instead of the wheel going all the way to the lock, it automagically stops at the exact steering angle needed to get you through the current turn, given your current car, setup, balance, speed, slip angle, throttle/braking inputs, etc.? I don't see how that's possible. LFS doesn't have any kind of assisted steering option.

Maybe you're in spectator mode watching the AI drive? *lol*

Quote from jankes :

Heh, that's exactly what I am doing, letting go of the wheel But the car just recovers by itself. That's what's wrong. It corrects even the tiny slides. The wheel applies just the correct ammount of opposite lock to recover the car by itself, that's why I said it looks as if there's some kind of steering help on, but of course there's no such thing in LFS.

i personally think this is down to real life physics. ive had expericance if this when i was at velencia in a fomula BMW, i went round the firsat ned and the car oversteered. i thought i was going round but steering wheel actually turned by its self and corrected the slide. i was very miffed at the time, but if u think about it when the rear kicked out and your holding the steering whell firm where you want to go, the car oversteering and the wheel staying where u weant it rwesults in the wheel turning. i know it sounds confusing i think im getting to a point here