1st time full-motorcycle, 2nd time car (failed me for "observation" first time).
The car pass rate where I took my motorcycle test was only 30%! It's not easy to pass, but I still think the training is too basic, and too focused on teaching you to pass, not teaching you how to drive.

I think Tristan's suggestion that drivers should be taught on a skid-pan is totally valid as long as it's applied to real-world situation. Like the high-speed lane change on a wet road, or the swerve in avoidance of an obstacle. I also think there should be an emergency stop from a much higher speed (at least 50mph). Just so people realise what it will feel like and have some idea of what can go wrong.

The bike test is getting harder in 2008 I think, lots more manouvre tests, and a swerve. It's good.

The license system here goes like this. To have a license you got to have the theory lessons of course, 30-40 hours of driving with the instructor and slippery track practice, 1 or 2 hours maybe. The track is a area with few straights and corners and a sort of small skid pad where you can go round round and round. Corners and some of the straight bit and the skidpad is of course covered with plastic and made slippery with water. It's basicly about learning what to do if the back end steps out, how to recover a slide, and how to stop quickly and dodge objects (with and without ABS), the speed limit on the are is 60km/h, LFS helped me a lot there when the instructor tried to trick me with handbrake

After the lessons and such, you take the test. The theory test has 10 questions and 50 pictures, and then there is the driving test which takes about 30 minutes (I only had under 20 or so for some reason hahaa ). You get a license for 2 years and you have to take a second course in that 2 years time where you have another slippery track day with more advanced stuff and few theory and driving lessons I think.

But anyway... I passed my test on the first try, had 5 wrong in the pictures where 8 is allowed, silly mistakes and for some reason the examiner drove only under 20 minutes with me, maybe he saw I was good enough I dunno. I think you need to do a serious mistake to fail here, not to stop next to a car front of pedestrian crossing is a easy one if you are doing very slow and not to check your blind spot while changing lane is another common one I've heard. Both of these mistakes of course deserve a failed mark I think.

Quote :

I think Tristan's suggestion that drivers should be taught on a skid-pan is totally valid as long as it's applied to real-world situation. Like the high-speed lane change on a wet road, or the swerve in avoidance of an obstacle. I also think there should be an emergency stop from a much higher speed (at least 50mph). Just so people realise what it will feel like and have some idea of what can go wrong.

Quote :

Everytime I hear the police comment of "What will it take to stop these young drivers" "What will we have to do" etc... The answer is teach people how to control there car not how to work it. Something which could easily be introduced into the test or even as a secondary course which could reduce your insurance... For the money pass plus costs I'm sure you could do something cheaper at a track. Especially when it could be done in groups.

Amen to that. Blackout, the track experience sounds like a great idea too. People with track or kart experience tend to have faster reactions and understand how the car handles better than people who learn from scratch with an instructor.

Man, i passed my test completely stoned when i was 16. It would of been a perfect score too, if i hadnt hit a cone parallel parking because I didn't have it completely in gear. If only i took the test in an automatic :\

IMO the tests are too easy. So many people here in the states can't drive for crap. Here in the Seattle area people arent too bad, but they do panic when it rains, which seems odd considering its friggn Seattle. But when i lived in Phoenix, AZ, i noticed that you can't use your turn signal when changing lanes. Because if you do, the guy next to you will almost always slam on the accelerator and close the gap immediately.

TBH, if ya really think about it, its not really driving skill thats the problem. Its idioitic people, that lack common sense, that cause most accidents. Thats a whole different epidemic though.

Aren't the US tests just 'drive round the block for a bit then park'?

I think a rather gory picture session of what you get if you get it wrong as part of the theory test would get the message across to the stupid idiots who wreckon they are invincible would help far far more than any track day/skid pan for new drivers. They do this for new helicopter pilots and it soon makes them take it seriously.

Driving test will come up soon, pretty good results all round int he family, mum, dad, brother and sister done it 1st time, I passed my CBT Bike test but that wasn't really anything, drive around on the road and use your mirroers and indicaters.

Starting ot drive next month, as soon as i'm 17, hopefully wont fail it, the pressure is on me to keep the good score up.

Good luck on your second attempt though.

CBT isn't a "test" per say, its a days training, TBH, you can't really "fail" CBT in the sense you can a test, you can be told you aren't safe enough to do the on road part, but it's pretty bloody rare

I did not need 2nd try when got my truck license. Test was done in traffic hour middle of city (Oulu) so I did mostly sit and wait to get moving again in one intersection, then also parking test, but there is really not much of handling test.

They teach very little of it at driving school, some stupid slippery track where you drive something like 10 mins, quite easy, but still instructor managed to hit small building that was near track, real demonstration of shoulder lock

If just somewhere they would teach how to use that gray stuff on your head, that would be a lot as what I see on roads nowdays there is quite small percent of people using their brains :P

Quote from JTbo :

They teach very little of it at driving school, some stupid slippery track where you drive something like 10 mins, quite easy...

Things have changed then, I was on the track last spring and we did atleast 30 minutes per head, and sitted in the car when the other guy drove. There must be differences between tracks, schools and areas too. But yeah, it's not much, but better than nothing I guess. The basic rule they teach you is that when you start to slide floor the clutch and countersteer if it's really going loose. But what they should teach is not to drive so fast you need to correct, a good driver doesn't have to do use all the skills he has. Instead changing attitudes the police inserts speed cameras, hooray and people just sit on the brake and accelerate away when they pass it, they learn where the cameras are very quickly, brilliant! Grrrr! I don't drive over the speed limit, but it's distracting to check your speedo even more often when you are on area with cameras. Is there studies that would show that cameras distract drivers from driving?

Quote from Blackout :

Things have changed then, I was on the track last spring and we did atleast 30 minutes per head, and sitted in the car when the other guy drove. There must be differences between tracks, schools and areas too. But yeah, it's not much, but better than nothing I guess. The basic rule they teach you is that when you start to slide floor the clutch and countersteer if it's really going loose. But what they should teach is not to drive so fast you need to correct, a good driver doesn't have to do use all the skills he has. Instead changing attitudes the police inserts speed cameras, hooray and people just sit on the brake and accelerate away when they pass it, they learn where the cameras are very quickly, brilliant! Grrrr! I don't drive over the speed limit, but it's distracting to check your speedo even more often when you are on area with cameras. Is there studies that would show that cameras distract drivers from driving?

I don't know about studies, but I have had to lock my brakes once as car at front of me decided to make panic braking when he/she spotted camera in 10m ahead, luckily I keep my distance to other cars. My opinion is that cameras make more trouble than they fix, good income for goverment I guess, but what is other reason (if there is any) why they put them to roads?

I got my license at -95, I have driven over 1 million km after that so I have some kind of touch how things are on roads and I really can't understand what is so bad about exceeding some artificial speed limit, they should concentrate on correct situation speed and generally how people are driving, there is for example these drivers that are afraid to drive over 60kph, they should not drive at all!

Anyway, back then we did not got much of time on that slippery track, they told to push clutch, but I just used throttle, brake and steering. Also that oil on track was so slippery that I have never ever found so slippery situation on road, even driving on ice covered road with summer tires, not much use from that practise. That was actually reason why instructor hit that wall, well part of reason, he could been avoided that, but instead he paniced and used that oh so mighty shoulder lock

I don't race on roads and quite rarely I do drive overspeed either, only sometimes when overtaking trucks. Well nowdays even less as policy has changed and they don't look good even that anymore so I often don't overtake, just sitting back and relaxing, I think I have rushed enough on roads already.

I would say that this kind of practise would be good at driving schools Damn I miss those track days, need to get some money for next summer :P

A bit O/T



Also, Blackout, this avatar is funny, makes me laugh

Today, my driving lesson, there were some real morons around today!

Firstly, this person on the right is standing still. There was no give way to right, so I just had to drive on. And over here, when you stop while you are allowed to take way, you lose it. So in either case I was in my right to continue.. Suddenly he drives off right in front of me!

Then I had to practice my parking again, so I turned on my indicator, the cars behind me stop, but the third car behind me suddenly also turns on his indicator and just turns into the parking place... If that isn't the worst what could happen... When I drive off, I see him in my rear view mirror leaving that spot again!! illepall Traffic aggression was growing in my head..

Then I had to turn left on a busy street, so I stop, but on the other side there was a car that had to turn left too (it was a driving lesson car too), so I waited for him to pass, but because there was already a line behind me, he had to wait untill the car behind me made some room. So he turns, the car behind him accelerates again, but a car right in front of me didn't take off, she just stayed there, so I figured... Because of the line, she's letting me go first, just the moment when I hit my gas, she takes off too!

Even my driving instructor was puzzled with everything that happend

Lol @ Funnycat. That is a funny cat

Quote from Funnycat :

Also, Blackout, this avatar is funny, makes me laugh

What avatar? Yours or mine, you've lost me now?

i had my driving license test about 2 months ago. In CZ it goes like this:
first you have to spend about 1h on "driving sim" (not a sim at all, just a road projected in front of you, so ABSOLUTLY no physics - if they used LFS + G25, they would do MUCH better) and then you have 18 hours of driving practice with instructor. You CAN visit the theory lessons, but dont have to...and it really depends on the instructor what he teaches you there - the one i had usually talked 70% of time offtopic about his stories and 30% about the actual traffic rule etc. Then you can go and take your exam which consists of test (25 questions, some with pictures of traffic situations, signs, but also some justice/law questions which are imho useless), driving test (it was only about 15 minutes for me) and then the inspector asks you few questions about technical things of car (how often to change oil, where is the battery etc).
I passed it for first time (test 100%, about driving he didnt tell me anything).

IMO there should be some "extreme situations" theory and practice...coz crusing thru town at 30 kmh wont teach you much

Quote from Don :

i had my driving license test about 2 months ago. In CZ it goes like this:
first you have to spend about 1h on "driving sim" (not a sim at all, just a road projected in front of you, so ABSOLUTLY no physics - if they used LFS + G25, they would do MUCH better) and then you have 18 hours of driving practice with instructor. You CAN visit the theory lessons, but dont have to...and it really depends on the instructor what he teaches you there - the one i had usually talked 70% of time offtopic about his stories and 30% about the actual traffic rule etc. Then you can go and take your exam which consists of test (25 questions, some with pictures of traffic situations, signs, but also some justice/law questions which are imho useless), driving test (it was only about 15 minutes for me) and then the inspector asks you few questions about technical things of car (how often to change oil, where is the battery etc).
I passed it for first time (test 100%, about driving he didnt tell me anything).

IMO there should be some "extreme situations" theory and practice...coz crusing thru town at 30 kmh wont teach you much

Hmm, that is quite little they teach really you there, we have 20 hours theory lessons where you have to be and also there is quite lot of stuff to learn in them, everything is about traffic rules.
Then driving lessons are 30x25mins on city, highway and motorway. Well then there is 2 hours of dark time lessons and then there is also slippery track practising.
Cost is around 1200€ + those dark driving 70€ and slippery track around 250€.
Theory exams are usually 10 questions and 50 photos nowdays, driving test is 45mins and these add to cost 17+36€.
There is not much if anything technical stuff nowdays, which is stupid, imo. but that is how it has gone in other areas too.

Everything that has to be something to do with rules in this country has been made difficult, complicated and expensive

Speaking of drivers tests and licenses, hahah watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jOFf_KB3lI&NR
http://youtube.com/watch?v=owvO640ODwA

I did mine in five. I was either too cautious or just crazy :P
I did my theory in one