Quote from Chris758 :

It wouldn't be very realistic then though.

No in real life, they'd have their licence revoked before they killed someone, if their teamowner didn't beat them to a bloody pulp and dump them outside of town, first......but thats irrelevant.

Obviously a sim can only simulate reality. You will always have to compromise somewhere to create a realistic racing experience, rather than a carbon copy of reality, per se.

There is no series I know of ( nascar, maybe), that allows people to repeatedly take out cars without retribution. For a simulation, it's easier to inhibit such behavior up front.

Quote from banshee56 :

MX440?? I have a 9600XT laying around...you want it?

OK.

Buy an S2 license, and I'll think about it.

Wait...you could prolly buy a 9800 for the price of S2.

Anyway, I can see where some better graphics objects can add to the immersion, but after all the races I've done, I don't think that is the problem. I'd say I'm pretty well immersed. I need content that forces me to pay attention to it race after race, like engine overheating, brake fade and failure, aero damage, and real penalty systems like corner cutting drive throughs, and realistic damage where going over the chicane at Fern Bay Green in an FO8 liek we do instantly breaks the shocks.

Quote from Chris758 :

I think updating the graphics would be more important than the physics.

Grats, you win an award for that post.

Wont tell you, which one, though.

Quote from banshee56 :

I need content that forces me to pay attention to it race after race, like engine overheating, brake fade and failure, aero damage, and real penalty systems like corner cutting drive throughs, and realistic damage where going over the chicane at Fern Bay Green in an FO8 liek we do instantly breaks the shocks.

I agree 100%! I would really like to see a proper clutch model, engine stalling, brake fade, better damage model (you hit a wall your race is OVER), server-side controls to prevent shift-S and car resetting, less adjustable road cars, ballast, etc. Improved graphics and sounds would be very nice to have, but these other things would increase realism and immersion immeasurably. Combine these changes with league races, script systems (like the STCC tiered servers), etc and you've got the recipe for a real winner.

Quote from Cue-Ball :

... server-side controls to prevent shift-S and car resetting...

There is already an option line in the dedi-server config file to not allow car resetting. Has anyone tried it yet?

Quote from banshee56 :

There is already an option line in the dedi-server config file to not allow car resetting. Has anyone tried it yet?

The option is there but not yet working. It requires an incompatible patch before it will work. I personally would like to see options for auto clutch, auto blip, auto cut, etc. as well.

yea. i mean... who the hell would sit hours and hours in the pits and wait for his teammate to pit? :P

Quote from Biohazard :

yea. i mean... who the hell would sit hours and hours in the pits and wait for his teammate to pit? :P

I'd just like to sit for hours and hours on a nice grassy embankment and watch you drive past again and again Biohazard, and maybe, just maybe, once in a while you'd flash your lights to me, or toot your horn..........ahhh imagine that.

Quote from sinbad :

I'd just like to sit for hours and hours on a nice grassy embankment and watch you drive past again and again Biohazard, and maybe, just maybe, once in a while you'd flash your lights to me, or toot your horn..........ahhh imagine that.

that would give pick up racing a whole new meaning

Quote from Mike85 :

What if you could also get out of the car and freeroam on foot? L

Having read the numerous statements by Scawen on the topic over the years, it's very hard to imagine that LFS will be anything but a dedicated racing sim, with the focus remaining on realistic physics and the art of racing ( insert thunderous applause here ).

Quote from banshee56 :

Personally, I think the graphics are sufficient for what I am doing in the sim. The most I generally see is tarmac, grass, sand, and a few landmarks to judge breaking points by. Why do I care about high-res skies? I mean, I'm not looking for a hidden image of the devil in the cumulus while I'm trying to threshold brake a racing machine into a off-camber, increasing radius turn with 10 other drivers near me.

I would rather see things like balanced car classes, more server admin controls, better collision and tire physics, a couple more tracks/configs, rolling/false starts, etc. I've played this sim for 3+ years now. Give me stuff that keeps me wanting to race, and not gawk at the textures. Graphics can wait until S3, IMHO.

I agree with you but fortunately for us, graphics and game physics are done by different people so we can hope for both I am faily happy with the graphics as they are (except perhaps the GTR interiors) and to a certain extent they probably need DX9.0 lighting applied to them rather than being changed. Unfortunately this is a job for Scawen and not something I would put high on the list to do within S2. As all versions of LFS share graphics engine, physics engine etc we would still get any changes like this even if it was part of the S3 development.

Quote from Cue-Ball :

However; keep in mind that S2 is still in alpha right now. We can assume that it will be quite a while before it's in beta and then another long while before it's final, then a LONG while after that before we see S3.

I believe Scawen has said he doesn't view alpha and beta stages like most software developers. Given that LFS S2alpha has less bugs than most completed software I think we can see the truth in this. I also recall him saying the beta stage will be very short, basically long enough after the last patch is issued to make sure there are no small bugs left.

Maxim

Quote from MaximUK :

I believe Scawen has said he doesn't view alpha and beta stages like most software developers. Given that LFS S2alpha has less bugs than most completed software I think we can see the truth in this. I also recall him saying the beta stage will be very short, basically long enough after the last patch is issued to make sure there are no small bugs left.

Maxim

Actually I don't think Scawen thinks that different about alpha and beta stages. The amount of bugs or stability doesn't necessarily have to do with the alpha label. S2 has an alpha tag because not all planned features are in place. Once all features are in it will get a beta tag. Then it's a case of getting rid of known bugs. But like you said the beta stage of S2 will probably be short because it doesn't have a lot of bugs anyway.
So after S2 final, work on S3 will start, and that will be labeled as alpha again because not all S3 features will be in place.

Quote from Cue-Ball :

If that's true then can I assume that every surface carries the same weight? If so, this would account for the fact that the hot hatches seem very top heavy. Sometimes after going over an inside curb I swear that the engine must be mounted on the roof!

i felt that too, my first impression driving the xfr was was ther a phisics change

Quote from MaximUK :

Since making my ealrier post I have seen a thread where Scawen did say that Eric doesn't work full time on LFS. I guess depending on his other commitments at the moment this might suggest there isn't so much unseen work as I thought there might be. As AJP71 stated, Scawen also said Eric would be concentrating on S3 graphics, cars and tracks so I am not so sure we will see much for S2 anymore.

Well that's not true. Please - if you want to say that I've said things, and you are interpreting them very loosely, could you post a link to the post? Otherwise you are just spreading false information and attaching my name to it. That's how rumours start.

Eric is working on S2 things. He obviously will not work on S3 specific things until S2 is finished. The only thing I could have said about Eric not working full time is that for some time this year he was moving house.

Quote from Scawen :

Well that's not true. Please - if you want to say that I've said things, and you are interpreting them very loosely, could you post a link to the post? Otherwise you are just spreading false information and attaching my name to it. That's how rumours start.

Eric is working on S2 things. He obviously will not work on S3 specific things until S2 is finished. The only thing I could have said about Eric not working full time is that for some time this year he was moving house.

Happy New Year Scawen & Eric!

Give us S2 soon!

Quote from Cue-Ball :

If that's true then can I assume that every surface carries the same weight? If so, this would account for the fact that the hot hatches seem very top heavy. Sometimes after going over an inside curb I swear that the engine must be mounted on the roof!

The meshes aren't used in the mass calculation any more. However, they are used to create a physics collision box and also to determine a radius. So they can affect physics in small ways.

Any tiny change to the car could put replays out of sync. For example, if a driver's position was moved by one millimeter, because of an updated steering wheel or whatever, the replay would be out of sync.

Not all the car interiors are done and Eric wants to release them at once, not having half a car class updated while another car is not. And one thing leads to another, so if the XRR is updated, the XRT is updated, so then the XFG should be updated as well. I expect all the interiors will be released at once, in an incompatible patch.

Quote from Scawen :

I expect all the interiors will be released at once, in an incompatible patch.

This looks like the best way yes but I'm wondering why do they have to be in an incompatible patch?



[edit] nevermind, i'm stupid [/edit]

Quote from XRRoy :

This looks like the best way yes but I'm wondering why do they have to be in an incompatible patch?

Quote from Scawen :

Any tiny change to the car could put replays out of sync. For example, if a driver's position was moved by one millimeter, because of an updated steering wheel or whatever, the replay would be out of sync.

Thats why. It's not possible to be compatible.

Quote from Scawen :

Well that's not true. Please - if you want to say that I've said things, and you are interpreting them very loosely, could you post a link to the post? Otherwise you are just spreading false information and attaching my name to it. That's how rumours start.

Eric is working on S2 things. He obviously will not work on S3 specific things until S2 is finished. The only thing I could have said about Eric not working full time is that for some time this year he was moving house.

He must be referring to the post about Eric moving house (and the subsequent requests for "kitchen updates"), because that's the only time I've seen you mention him not working on LFS.

And could you clarify one thing for us (me)?

You say Eric will obviously not work on S3 specific things before S2 is final, so would that mean that the fruits of his labor ever since the BF1 introduction and probably everything that was rumored before that will all be released in one giant incompatible update? So if he's been working on new tracks/cars at all, that those are for S2, rather than S3? Not saying there are new tracks or cars, just that we might expect some rather nice updates from Eric's side of things in S2, instead of S3.

BTW, what are you doing here? You're supposed to be taking a break, m8

Quote from Scawen :

He obviously will not work on S3 specific things until S2 is finished.

Well that's not always been the case, the FO8 was created back before S1 was released, go karts have been created (we presume, there are kart tracks and kart car types) but never released, bits of Aston were in S1, etc. Not totally obvious IMO.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Well that's not always been the case, the FO8 was created back before S1 was released, go karts have been created (we presume, there are kart tracks and kart car types) but never released, bits of Aston were in S1, etc. Not totally obvious IMO.

Hence my question above, Bob.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Aw, you've ruined my favourite LFS conspiracy theory - that if you roll the XFG and bash the roof in a bit, it goes faster.

*develops more ridiculous supposition*

Meshes are used for collision box creation, though... If that box is used to calculate the amount of drag the car has in any way, then your conspiracy theory can continue to be used

I for one can't wait for the annoucnement of an incompatible patch. So many goodies for us all :cool:

Talking about graphical updates: iirc, the RB4, the MRT (maybe) and the LXes are still waiting for a complete overhaul like all the other S1-cars. So it shouldn't be only interiors for them, I guess.