It is often asked by people starting out, "what should I do? Try all the cars or choose one and stick to it?"

Well, if they decide on the latter choice, which is what I would recommend, they could do a lot worse than starting with the MRT. I wish I had.

I've been competing in the FOX recently. The season has ended and the Christmas MRT Cup has begun. I was unsure about these karts initially but now I've been driving it for a couple of weeks I've really begun to appreciate it. It really does force you into good habits. For this reason I think it is an ideal beginners car. I'm sure my FOX pace will have improved when I get back in it.

Driving the MRT teaches you every inch, bump, drain cover of a circuit. I'm noticing circuit features I never noticed in the FOX. MRT is THE car for learning circuits in.

I did a comparison of the FOX and the MRT which you can view here http://www.r4r.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=78.0

Thought I'd get some opinions from the rest of the community.

The MRT is a very unforgiving car. It does have it's merrits as you have detailed, but those are factors that are more appropriate to somebody who already knows the basics and wants to improve.

For a beginner i'd suggest XFG / FOX as these are forgiving cars.

OK having read your comments I kinda agree that the MRT may not be for the ABSOLUTE beginner and more suited to someone who has tried a few combos and got a feel for the game.

But what the MRT does is force you to think about your line, the circuit's characteristics (not just layout) and is a good vehicle to start learning about set ups. And becuase of it's low power you are on the throttle more between corners meaning exit speed it critical.

The MRT5, not good for noobs, but great for newish people to learn lots. Totally agree. However very sensitive to even apparently minor setup changes, which counts against it.

FXR!

The reason why I stay out from FOX servers is the people who aren't aware how agile and quick car it actually is. Close racing in such nimble car with inexperienced drivers have never provided any good racing.

FXR is slower, a lot easier to drive and because it is awd you will learn to drive in LFS pretty safely without being afraid of the throttle all the time. The downforce means that it is quite safe on higher speeds as well. Also you have the aston national servers running 24hours a day with people racing there. Just being friendly and asking nicely people will give you help and setups. I had many good races on GTR/AS3 servers when I used to drive there a lot. It is also a lot easier to move to other cars from FXR. Once you can drive the car for 5 laps or more without contantly overheating the tires you can move to the FZR which is a good choise when you have the basics mastered. With this car you can start fighting for the wins as long as you can control it. Best places to race are Blackwood, Aston national and Kyoto. Blackwood you already know, aston is easy to memorize and kyoto is very enjoyable once you have memorized it. The big GTRs are powerful sexy machines

After the FXR I'd probably start driving the TBO class cars. A lot less aero, closer racing = improves the closer racing racecraft skill which is essential to be able to race the FOX. If you can't keep close distances in a TBO you will be a walking tornado in FOX. With the STCC servers you have drivers to race with almost 24 hours a day. However, on STCC servers you need to earn your lisence to get your hands on the TBO cars. Practising the XFG/XRG cars will improve your racecraft skills but because they are very forgiving cars you may learn bad habbits from them. Just like with the big GTR: high speeds and lots of downforce means that the car is like on rails at higher speeds. When you move to cars with no downforce you will be surprized how big effect throttle control has on higher speeds when there is no downforce helping you.

The harder cars, especially the FZ50 and RA require you to be able to control the car with throttle. Without proper throttle inputs these cars are very hard and unforgivin to drive. The LX6 is a tad easier but still very hard car to start with.

I wouldn't suggest anyone to start with the MRT. It is just way too agile for its own good. Plus it can be a real pain in the ass to drive because it is snappy. RA is like godness of forgiveness compared to this car

I think for a new driver the more seat time he gets the better. LX4 might be good choise for first car but there is no one driving it online. After all, we want to race, not just drive

The main reason I wouldn't suggest the fast, heavy downforced GTRs to a beginner is not so much the handling or the car but more the fact that these big old bruisers can run over kerbs and bumps and be pretty much unaffected. You can think you know a track in these cars but it's not until you are in something lighter that you start to notice all the details of the crests and bumps. Then you find yourself having to learn the circuit again.

The South City circuits are perfect examples as they have draincovers and lumps and bumps all over the place. Drive them in the GTR and you can just nail it over the drain covers with full throttle and even a bit of lock on. Try this in the MRT and you'll be facing the wrong way in a second.

This is what I mean about good habits.

But your points were well made and I agree on the whole. Thanks for the excellent contribution Hyper.

the mrt can spin out from rumble strips if you arent carefull . the best car would be the fox and xfg probably.

Quote from Gabkicks :

the mrt can spin out from rumble strips if you arent carefull . the best car would be the fox and xfg probably.

That's my point... Any car set up with enough oversteer will do this. And only setups with enough oversteer are fast. That's why the MRT gets you into good habits. The good habit of not using the kerbs unless there is a real benefit to using them

Xfg, Fxr, Xrg.

I'd say the MRT in S1 was a great car for beginners, but the S2 MRT is a bit too twitchy and unstable for most beginners. I'd recommend the demo cars for total newbies, then the FOX (easiest car in LFS, but that will teach you bad habits). The MRT, as Mr Foot says, will teach you nuances of LFS and of handling/car control/smoothness/speed maintainance better than pretty much anything, and as such is a great car to learn once you've got used to LFS and basic driving.

For the firstimer I think it would be too demoralising.

Quote from Mike85 :

Only Aliens are fast with mouse.

Hello, I'm an alien.

If anything it is easier to drive RWD cars with a mouse. Or more accurately, with only 0% or 100% power down. With FWD you put the power down and the car just want's to go straight even with a gentle tap on the button. Wheels are loosing traction with this constant "jerking".

The only FWD car I can drive is the UFR, there the "tapping" technique works. The GTI and the FXO are just so annoyingly stable. But I haven't really raced these too alot since I hated them both after the first corner.

There's are guy in our team who drives KB anfd mouse and it always amazes me how quick he can drive. He seems to cope with everything from the BF1 to the UF1

And one more point for FXR. It is very drivable with mouse. And one really needs to drive over the curbs properly. Taking the wrong line or being too aggressive will get you on your roof in 4 seconds in FXR/XRR. FZR is more forgiving with curbs (surprise! )

I understand that with the big GTRs you are missing some nyances of the tracks but as I see it I think a softer, easier approach with easier car(s) is better and more motivative (spelling) than taking some non-aero RWD car. Imho, the FOX requires too much race craft skills from a newbie. When I was starting with LFS I tried the FOX, and even if it was easy to drive alone, in a pack of drivers it was pure madness. With FOX it just isn't enough if you avoid making mistakes, you need to watch for others mistakes as well. I had done hundreds of races in GPL before LFS (against the ai drivers though) and I had some serious problems of getting a clean race in FOX. All that late braking, high corner speeds and closer racing is imho too challenging if you are just getting into LFS racing.

Needless to say, I started with FXR.

No offence but begginers are mainly demo drivers and when the come quite good with the XFGTI or the turbo they get bored, and buy the S2.

I would say XFGTI, learn to drive, learn the lines to drive, ect.!

in my demo times a friend told me to drive the XFG, i only drove 5 laps with it and thaught, what is that shit. So i Jumped directly to the XRT and was happy

I agree with the above posts that after the demo cars, the FXR is a nice ride. It was about the only fast car I could control when I still used the keyboard, and I still really enjoy driving it. Shame there's no point using it on GTR servers. If you want to win.

I also think that as far as open-wheelers go, the FOX is a joy to handle. It's fast enough to make you feel the wind in your hair and the flies in your teeth, but it's also forgiving enough that if you push too hard on a corner it won't take you into a wall.

Funny thing is, I got my license 3 days ago and I started out with the BF1. Being a hardcore F1 fan, I kept trying ang trying to keep the insanely powerful car on the track. I managed to do pretty well, though, 0:59:59 on the BLGP and 0:37:98 on the South City Classic, although i did these on singleplayer and with a mouse, so it's not recorded on LFSW. MRT5 is a pretty spin-happy kar(t), so unless the new guys get a decent setup it's pretty difficult to drive it at first. I'd recommend the XRT for the new guys to get a feel of how a powerful RWD feels like without slicks. I've had difficulties controlling the XRR and FZR, although I'm using the easy race setups. Also, a question from me. Downforce helps to keep the car in traction at high speeds, right? So why not set it at the maximum? Someone please clarify this doubt
And why is the FXR not feasible on the GTR servers? Is it bcos of it's slower acceleration and lower top speed?

Quote from Alkanphel :

Also, a question from me. Downforce helps to keep the car in traction at high speeds, right? So why not set it at the maximum?

More downforce also means more drag. So on tracks with long straights, piling on the downforce will limit your top speed unnecessarily.

FXR, XFG moving on to FXO, RB4, XFR and FOX.

Oh ok... More DF = More traction, less top speed. Less DF = Less traction, higher top speed.

A complete beginner has a bit more on his mind than learning how to race in S2. First, he needs to learn the tracks. Not every little nuance of the tracks, but the corners themselves. You can spectate and see exactly who the new guys are. They slow down to 15 mph undecided if they need to turn right or left. Or they brake at 25 meters and drive straight through the corners.

For a beginner (usually from the demo as was said), they need to learn the track layout with a car they already know. This would be the GTi usually, or the XRT. Or, they can go to Blackwood which they already know, and learn the other cars before coming in and running havoc on the other combo's.