We're not asking you to agree. You can play the game however you would like. Some of us would just like to play the game the way we like without having to worry that someone playing an easier way is there to spoil it. I certainly don't want no-aids to be forced on everyone. I also don't want axis-clutch and auto-clutch off to be forced on everyone. However; *I* want to play that way. Some of the people I know want to play that way. We should be able to play that way and ensure that anyone else who wants to join is playing by our common rules. That is all.
We're not asking you to agree. You can play the game however you would like. Some of us would just like to play the game the way we like without having to worry that someone playing an easier way is there to spoil it. I certainly don't want no-aids to be forced on everyone. I also don't want axis-clutch and auto-clutch off to be forced on everyone. However; *I* want to play that way. Some of the people I know want to play that way. We should be able to play that way and ensure that anyone else who wants to join is playing by our common rules. That is all.
I only asumed you wanted to be treated to how you treated my initial post. If this is your attitude, I have no problems in you ignoring me.
But, again you've missed the point. By what you're staying; if LFS had a function that had auto-steer, that was as perfect at steering as throttle-blip on downshift is at heel-toeing. You wouldn't mind if people used it, providing you could 95% percent of the time, turn as good as them manually.
YET, by these standards, the guy using auto-steer would automatically be 5% better than you. Now do you see?
I understand it, but I think in this sentence you are confusing two very different things. Taking away the software driving aids seems quite legitimate to me. These are routines that take certain decisions away from the driver.
But changing gears the 'normal' way? When I first got a wheel (I'd been playing Racer with a mouse - the first sim I ever got involved with...), I was seconds off my previous times. WTF? I thought a wheel would make me faster!
Well, it did once I got used to the wheel. By a few tenths...
Now I can blitz those times. What happened? I wasn't very good in the first place: braking too early, not using all the track, usual mistakes... But it was me that got better. Nothing to do with the wheel. I have no doubt that were I to invest in full on motion simulator with all the gubbins, I'd be slower as I adapted to the equipment. But I'd be as quick as I am now within a few (long) sessions.
Any new leap in lap times would be down to the decisions that I make as a driver.
I totally disagree with you here. Doing things manually in this game is never as fast or easy as using the driving aids If you make ONE mistake it's guranteed to be slower. Using three pedals is more difficult than two. Period. If it weren't then modern F1 cars would still have three pedals and companies wouldn't be spending billions in R&D to develop clutchless manuals.
There is no risk or chance of mistake when using the driving aids. When not using them there is, at best, still the *chance* of making a mistake. I shouldn't have to drive 100% perfectly just to keep even with someone who is infallible thanks to the computer.
If me, Tristan, Eeekie, etc want to play on a server with this option enabled, what's the harm to the rest of you? Why are you (not you specificially, Kev. "you" as a group) so against us being able to play this way? How is our group playing together negatively impacting the rest of you?
Everybody is entitled to his Opinion, but its bad attitude when people start to assume we get ashamed if we got beaten by a keyboard driver, or we are "eliteists". :flamed:
Most of the People racing on Hardcore Mode Setted up Server would still be Racing alot on any other Server - just like now people jump from Server to Server and Combo to Combo.
No thanks I got a 116hp reardrive manual transmission car and I love it
I have also been to Race driving schools driving Formula 2000 cars but it was too expensive to keep on going. Sim Racing is more than a PC Game, its a Hobby. I dont use the PC for much except enjoying the digital recreation of Motorsport.An idealist fantasy? lol. There can never be equal terms for controllers and surroundings. We all know that.
But some important things of Simulating a Car could be set to equal if the Host wants to do that. "True" Racing only occurs on a true track. There should be the possibility in a Online Driving Simulation that you organise a Race without driving Aids wouldnt you say?
(thisnameistaken)
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by thisnameistaken
Also let's not forget they're obviously factored in because you can see on World Record laps if people were using throttle or braking aids.
The only way you can shift quicker with a manual clutch at the moment is to exploit the bug Scawen pointed out, which is you can shift first, then just flick the clutch on and off in the shortest of time and it will engage. This is to be changed.
The only way you can shift quicker with a manual clutch at the moment is to exploit the bug Scawen pointed out, which is you can shift first, then just flick the clutch on and off in the shortest of time and it will engage. This is to be changed.
Changing gears with a manual clutch in LFS takes a certain amount of skill and practice. Good timing and avoiding miss-shifts also requires practice and develops a certain type of skill.
These skills can only be utilised by a person who has certain equipment. As one of those people, I would welcome the challenge of pitting my skills against others who also have developed the same skills using similar equipment.
Fortunately for me I'm not the only one who has been practising with a shifter and three pedals, so that means I should be able to find some tough competition.
Fortunately for them I am keen to race them and see how good I can do with my manual shifting and clutching skills.
Unfortunately for some, they don't have the equipment to practice or develop these skills, it isn't physically possible and it isn't anyone's fault.
Unfortunately for many, there is currently no way of bringing together people with these skills so that they may finally put their practice to the test in a fair race.
This has nothing to do with elitism or cutting people out or being rich or poor or reducing people's options. It certainly isn't anything that anybody should be afraid of.
When LFS includes better features, I'll be ready and waiting to take up the challenge and I don't mind if there is one opponent or one thousand.
These skills can only be utilised by a person who has certain equipment. As one of those people, I would welcome the challenge of pitting my skills against others who also have developed the same skills using similar equipment.
Fortunately for me I'm not the only one who has been practising with a shifter and three pedals, so that means I should be able to find some tough competition.
Fortunately for them I am keen to race them and see how good I can do with my manual shifting and clutching skills.
Unfortunately for some, they don't have the equipment to practice or develop these skills, it isn't physically possible and it isn't anyone's fault.
Unfortunately for many, there is currently no way of bringing together people with these skills so that they may finally put their practice to the test in a fair race.
This has nothing to do with elitism or cutting people out or being rich or poor or reducing people's options. It certainly isn't anything that anybody should be afraid of.
When LFS includes better features, I'll be ready and waiting to take up the challenge and I don't mind if there is one opponent or one thousand.
It doesn't impact me, but I think I've already explained my position and the reasons for my disagreement.
I think the LFS community is a deeply insecure one in many ways. It is to be expected to some degree, since the software is evolving relatively slowly, yet the online presence is quite strong. Hence, problems like the 'wreckers' have been dealt with in an improvised fashion and, even though there are more formal methods in place now, its still something that leaves the community a little nervous. Witness the plethora of apologies in a race: its good to see such consideration, but real, self-assured competition would have no need of it.
This topic seems to me to be filled with similar anxiety. I can understand why you, as an interest group, would want to band together, but I don't understand why you need the software to sanction this allegiance you have. Surely its just easier to password the server, meet up, and race!
I think in my posts I have already stated other concerns of mine: I don't believe that the hardware a competitor uses to play LFS gives significant advantage (eg. I have a very slow computer that makes me tentative in turn 1 because of FPS drops, so... I adapt my racing strategy and do all right); I have issues with the notion that because something looks like a photo that means its realistic (the views thing really pushes my buttons
); and... oh, I'm sure its all in previous posts... forgotten why I'm justifying myself now 
I don't understand how you come to this conclusion. I'm certainly not faster doing upshifts with a manual clutch and H-shifter than I am using auto clutch and a sequential. I don't see how I even could be as fast or faster. Auto-clutch shifts almost instantaneously. I can't even move the stick that fast, much less push in the clutch, move the stick, then release the clutch.
None of us are scared to use the full manual controls. I've stated many times that I play full manual with all aids off already. I just would like to do so against other people who are doing the same.
Again, I'll say this one more time, I ALREADY play using clutch, H-shifter, and no aids. I believe at least one or two other people in this thread said the same. This should not preclude us from wanting to play solely against other people who also use the same controls if we choose to.
Er... Yes. Many times in this thread already.
It's all part of the progression towards the ultimate driving simulator, rather than a racing game, which has been done very well umpteen times in the past.
Throttle aids and braking aids aren't simulation.
Throttle aids and braking aids aren't simulation.
When people race in real life, it may not be a 'level' playing field, but everyone is at least using the same controls - wheel, pedals and gears. In a series it is more common than not that they use the same type too, so everyone has three pedals and an h-shift, or 3 pedals and a sequential shift, or semi-automatic or something... Occasionally you get someone is different, and it's usually noted quite quickly. Sometimes, if someone is deemed to have an unfair advantage, or doing something against the spirit of the rules, then that advantage will get banned. E.g. if a race series is only h-shifters, and someone comes along with a sequential and wins everything (or is a lot faster than they should be) then it'll either become the 'norm' very quickly or get regulated out.
In LFS we have the situation where everyone uses the fastest controller type most of the time - flat shifting autoclutch. Kev might say manual is faster, but I don't think it is, at least not consistently. You might be quicker 1 shift in ten, but I doubt it evens out. What some of us would like is that ability to choose that all races use the same handicap in some servers some of the time. I don't want to inflict it on anyone who doesn't want to know. In a lot of cases I revert to autoclutching/flatshifting etc for the speed/consistency. A lot of the time I'm quite happy to lose races because I choose to do everything myself. I'd quite like the option of not being at a disadvantage (shut it Kev) when the feeling suits me too.
When I taught my friends at uni to play LFS they were quicker within 3 laps without brake and throttle help, so I think the removal of those would affect about 6 people in total. But there is no denying that the guarantee of every gear change working is an advantage to auto-clutchers, and I'd like the OPTION of not racing against people with that advantage.
I think all we (I?) can do is keep repeating, using different words each time, how I want this option that would no way affect other people other than stop them joining a couple of servers and a couple of leagues - and they'd be serious leagues that did that anyway, so the players would be serious enough to have bought an extra pedal and an h-shifter anyway (although they might not have used the shifter for speed reasons if it wasn't enforced
).
In LFS we have the situation where everyone uses the fastest controller type most of the time - flat shifting autoclutch. Kev might say manual is faster, but I don't think it is, at least not consistently. You might be quicker 1 shift in ten, but I doubt it evens out. What some of us would like is that ability to choose that all races use the same handicap in some servers some of the time. I don't want to inflict it on anyone who doesn't want to know. In a lot of cases I revert to autoclutching/flatshifting etc for the speed/consistency. A lot of the time I'm quite happy to lose races because I choose to do everything myself. I'd quite like the option of not being at a disadvantage (shut it Kev) when the feeling suits me too.
When I taught my friends at uni to play LFS they were quicker within 3 laps without brake and throttle help, so I think the removal of those would affect about 6 people in total. But there is no denying that the guarantee of every gear change working is an advantage to auto-clutchers, and I'd like the OPTION of not racing against people with that advantage.
I think all we (I?) can do is keep repeating, using different words each time, how I want this option that would no way affect other people other than stop them joining a couple of servers and a couple of leagues - and they'd be serious leagues that did that anyway, so the players would be serious enough to have bought an extra pedal and an h-shifter anyway (although they might not have used the shifter for speed reasons if it wasn't enforced
).The only way to shift quicker with manual that I know of is to exploit the bug Scawen mentioned.
Also, I like playing against fully manual people because it's way more exciting. Every few races someone will miss a shift, or cock up a downshift in a twitchy car and it just adds to the excitement and sheer randomness of it all, like a real race.
I play with a friend of mine on my server, and we're both on a voice coms, and both go fully manual; and we're always laughing at each other when one of us cocks up the gearing. It makes races so much closer too, as when you're put under massive pressure, you're more likely to balls up a shift, so you can pressure people, swap positions more often, and have another skill to try and learn better than your manual peers.
It just adds one more degree of individuality and randomness to this racing simulator.
I might look into making my own insim program to turn my server into a "softy" server. I'm sure I read on STCC site that they limit use of aids as you progress through the ranks.
Also, I like playing against fully manual people because it's way more exciting. Every few races someone will miss a shift, or cock up a downshift in a twitchy car and it just adds to the excitement and sheer randomness of it all, like a real race.
I play with a friend of mine on my server, and we're both on a voice coms, and both go fully manual; and we're always laughing at each other when one of us cocks up the gearing. It makes races so much closer too, as when you're put under massive pressure, you're more likely to balls up a shift, so you can pressure people, swap positions more often, and have another skill to try and learn better than your manual peers.
It just adds one more degree of individuality and randomness to this racing simulator.
I might look into making my own insim program to turn my server into a "softy" server. I'm sure I read on STCC site that they limit use of aids as you progress through the ranks.
There's already an InSim app which can detect auto-blip, auto-cut, auto-shift, brake help, steering help, etc. But, as far as I know, InSim doesn't pass what type of shifter is being used or what type of clutch is being used. Without that information there's no way to make an InSim app which will do what we want. If you're interested in the tool that does the other stuff PM me and I can email it to you.
That would suit my needs fine. PMed!
Maybe it is the term "Hardcore mode" which makes people dislike the options suggested? I did not actually even think about it earlier but of course it is nothing HC if you are forced to use certain kind of controls and race procedures. In other words, the HC mode should be the closest thing to real life simulating all possible factors and disabilities. Whether it is ok to say that this, actually quite limited, virtual reality is hardcore is a question that can't be answered without making certain presumptions on the hardware and software available. With current PCs we are totally missing G-forces. But it is possible to buy or build something that creates them. But still you are watching and responding mainly on what you see on screen. One can buy "virtual glasses" and virtually sit inside a cockpit. What about sounds? 3d sounds with numerous different kind of sounds for different events is required to to finally develop a situation where the origin of the sound is what is getting our attention, not the sound itself. With this kind of equipment are we closer to real life, or is there still something missing?
Yes. The software needs to support the equipment we use. But even if the sim looked and sounded 100% right would it still feel 100% right? Of course not. A sim requires to be used to with proper kind of equipment and this requires that these controls have the correct and "real" functions. These functions make the clutch pedal to work like a real clutch pedals, paddles work as they do in real life and H-pattern shifters etc.. A good sim doesn't require that you buy or build all real life car controls in front of your PC, there are aids which allow us to drive with just 2 pedals or without shfiter.
But the sim isn't yet a race sim, it is just a driving sim. To race, battle positions and make the right tactical decisions we need correct enviroment. This environment needs to support the the real life factors which are essential to for a racing sim. False starts, engine damane, rain and red flags. The list isn't endless but it includes a lot more or less important features and options than at first glance it would seem.
All of these options and features come with limitations. One may not have 3 pedals, other can't race in rain because the FPS hit is unbearable. This is why a good sim offers options instead of rigid forms of HC modes and whatnots. People want to do what they want to do in that sim. Whether it was to simulate 24h races, crash racing or something else. Again, to suppport these different events, we need options. What is so different when an options is offered to to (theoretically) limit participants to use some special kind of hardware? Making a league for people using 3d sound only isn't really a good idea and offering such option is obviously just stupid. What about offering an option to "force" participants to use clutch pedals and shifters? It does not guarantee better racing, closer racing or cleaner racing. But it (theoretically) guarantees that everybody is using similar equipment. It theoretically guarantees that all people on that server have the chance of making similar errors. It goes without saying that driving with or without h-pattern shifters and clutch pedals makes 10000x bigger difference than with or without 3d sound. But is it fair to offer such options which are meant to divide people? Is it about dividing people into 2 groups, one has something, the other don't. Or is it about bringing together people with similar dedication and equipment?
Imho, HC mode does not offer anything interesting in itself. It just doesn't work in practise. What works is to give users the option to run the sim how they like it, within reason of course. Looking at LFS , it should offer as realistic experience as possible with the normal settings. This normal "mode" includes false starts, clutch supports and engine damages etc.. With options we could change the start to rolling starts with or without formation laps, disable midrace join, limit camera options and limit the use of driving aids and allow people in only with certain types of controllers. These are all just simple options for the server admins who want to set up their servers as they please.
Should one be punished because he/she is using "lesser" equipment? Should one be slower with paddles if the car wants H-pattern shifters? I say yes. It is not a question about money or skill, it is a question of seriousness towards the hobby, level of dedication. People who have either bought or built their own cockpits with real alike controls are dedicated with their hobby and want to use their hardware. In the end, should the use of aids be penalized instead of use of certain hardware?
Yes. The software needs to support the equipment we use. But even if the sim looked and sounded 100% right would it still feel 100% right? Of course not. A sim requires to be used to with proper kind of equipment and this requires that these controls have the correct and "real" functions. These functions make the clutch pedal to work like a real clutch pedals, paddles work as they do in real life and H-pattern shifters etc.. A good sim doesn't require that you buy or build all real life car controls in front of your PC, there are aids which allow us to drive with just 2 pedals or without shfiter.
But the sim isn't yet a race sim, it is just a driving sim. To race, battle positions and make the right tactical decisions we need correct enviroment. This environment needs to support the the real life factors which are essential to for a racing sim. False starts, engine damane, rain and red flags. The list isn't endless but it includes a lot more or less important features and options than at first glance it would seem.
All of these options and features come with limitations. One may not have 3 pedals, other can't race in rain because the FPS hit is unbearable. This is why a good sim offers options instead of rigid forms of HC modes and whatnots. People want to do what they want to do in that sim. Whether it was to simulate 24h races, crash racing or something else. Again, to suppport these different events, we need options. What is so different when an options is offered to to (theoretically) limit participants to use some special kind of hardware? Making a league for people using 3d sound only isn't really a good idea and offering such option is obviously just stupid. What about offering an option to "force" participants to use clutch pedals and shifters? It does not guarantee better racing, closer racing or cleaner racing. But it (theoretically) guarantees that everybody is using similar equipment. It theoretically guarantees that all people on that server have the chance of making similar errors. It goes without saying that driving with or without h-pattern shifters and clutch pedals makes 10000x bigger difference than with or without 3d sound. But is it fair to offer such options which are meant to divide people? Is it about dividing people into 2 groups, one has something, the other don't. Or is it about bringing together people with similar dedication and equipment?
Imho, HC mode does not offer anything interesting in itself. It just doesn't work in practise. What works is to give users the option to run the sim how they like it, within reason of course. Looking at LFS , it should offer as realistic experience as possible with the normal settings. This normal "mode" includes false starts, clutch supports and engine damages etc.. With options we could change the start to rolling starts with or without formation laps, disable midrace join, limit camera options and limit the use of driving aids and allow people in only with certain types of controllers. These are all just simple options for the server admins who want to set up their servers as they please.
Should one be punished because he/she is using "lesser" equipment? Should one be slower with paddles if the car wants H-pattern shifters? I say yes. It is not a question about money or skill, it is a question of seriousness towards the hobby, level of dedication. People who have either bought or built their own cockpits with real alike controls are dedicated with their hobby and want to use their hardware. In the end, should the use of aids be penalized instead of use of certain hardware?
I agree with you here. Aids should be slower than doing everything yourself manually. But I highly doubt you'll ever get most people to go for that since they will complain that they are now at an unfair disadvantage (balancing auto-anything to be similar to doing it manually is pretty much impossible). For this reason I think it's easier to just separate the two groups and allow them to run against similar opponents, should they choose to do so.
Or just being able to see who is doing what, as previously mentioned would more than satisfy me.
People are as good as they are but, with this I would congradulate someone who beat me fair and square while using 3 pedals and a gated shifter, if on that day I was just using the 2 pedals and "click-shift".
Or if it was extended further to show what controller they were using, I'd sincerely praise someone who beat me with a keyboard/mouse etc.
Maybe I'm just nosey
People are as good as they are but, with this I would congradulate someone who beat me fair and square while using 3 pedals and a gated shifter, if on that day I was just using the 2 pedals and "click-shift".
Or if it was extended further to show what controller they were using, I'd sincerely praise someone who beat me with a keyboard/mouse etc.
Maybe I'm just nosey
Rather than hoping people read what you were trying to say, say what you are you trying to say. If you make a post putting clutch pedals and button clutch in the same difiiculty bracket,
then you can expect some argument.
I don't think I misunderstood really did I?
From what you have written, I really don't get the impression that you are particularly familiar with LFS. Perhaps you should research further for yourself the effect and usefulness of these "aids" which you are so against, and the real differences between auto-clutch and button-clutch. Then try to understand, that simply increasing the number of things you have control over is not a way of making things more realistic.
A hardcore mode is not born out of simply assigning the clutch to any available input. In many ways (imo) a button clutch is much less realistic than an automated one, and throttle blip is no real advantage either. They're not perfectly matched downshifts at all.
Read what I said. I said they are equal in terms of timing. All 3 methods require the same amount of mental planning. All 3 methods make you think:
Clutch In
Shift Gear
Clutch Out
Rather than just:
Shift Gear
All 3 require the same timing of doing a clutch before a shift, then releasing it after. I was on about timing and mentally queueing up the jobs. I'm sorry I thought it was obvious from when I said:
Using throttle blip on downshift means you'll never lock the rear wheels up for a fraction of a second while downshifting into a corner which can happen with full manual setup if you have a lapse in concentration, or you're under alot of pressure from someone behind.
Clutch In
Shift Gear
Clutch Out
Rather than just:
Shift Gear
All 3 require the same timing of doing a clutch before a shift, then releasing it after. I was on about timing and mentally queueing up the jobs. I'm sorry I thought it was obvious from when I said:
Using throttle blip on downshift means you'll never lock the rear wheels up for a fraction of a second while downshifting into a corner which can happen with full manual setup if you have a lapse in concentration, or you're under alot of pressure from someone behind.
Button clutch is a neccessity as some people MAKE their own controllers or modify an unused button with a switch to make a 3rd pedal, as is a common practice with the logitech driving force
THANK YOU!!
That is the look of sensible thought. The same also applies to other aids. It should be noted that as far as i can tell the aids do not brake for you or accelerate for you, but instead back it off if youve given it too much.
I've got an idea for you!
1) Start Private Server
2)use combination of insim and new scripting system to create a program that one must be logged into to not be knocked off the private server. This program resets the neccisary options using the script commands now and again, and reports to a central server that the driver with X LFS world name is in fact running the program and should not be autokicked.
3) Leave the rest of us out of it
*)when you do this, let me know, if ive solved all the issues with my home made shifter i might just race with you occasionally
Yes that would acheive the required results, but would be a ball ache for everyone, and I for one wouldn't like to run a 3rd party exe to join a server, hence the request for it to be an integral option, in the requests section.
It's a request is all it is.
It's a request is all it is.
That would be a HUGE undertaking and probably would not accomplish our goal anyway. Even if it did, it certainly wouldn't be the most straight forward way to achieve results.
All that is needed is for InSim to report the type of clutch being used and the type of shifter being used, similar to the way it reports keyboard/mouse/wheel and auto-cut, auto-blip, etc. now. If Scawen would put this small thing into LFS the rest could easily be done on the server end using an InSim app. It would just be nice if all of these settings were able to be controlled by the server without the need for an external app. Scawen is already going to put in controls for Shift-S, car reset, etc. so I would think it could be done at the same time with relatively little effort.
My way doesnt need to report it, and forces things to be your way. And best of all, it can be done NOW without burdening the already much put upon Scawen. I'm sure if you talk to Dygear he might be interested ni such a project.
The bottom line on this one is pretty simple. Either settle for it ebing on your wishlist as it is now, or do something about it yourself using the tools youve got. If you don't have the tool you need, make it or get someone else to help you make it. Not having a crank handle for a bottle jack didnt stop me from working on my old truck, just meant i had to put in a little extra work to pound a piece of metal into the right shape to use as the handle i needed.
And i just realized i forgot to adress Sprint Car drive train in my last post, since it was asked about. They are direct drive, from the output shaft of the engine, to a live axle at the rear (thats right folks, no differential). This is the reason for rolling starts. The cars get push started, then form up. Theres a way to decouple the driveshaft so it can be pushed about or coast, but cannot be re-engaged from inside the car (make sure you dis engage this before shutting off the engine, if you like having control of your car)
and with that i will sign off its about 5 am local time and i just got off a 12 hour shift)
The bottom line on this one is pretty simple. Either settle for it ebing on your wishlist as it is now, or do something about it yourself using the tools youve got. If you don't have the tool you need, make it or get someone else to help you make it. Not having a crank handle for a bottle jack didnt stop me from working on my old truck, just meant i had to put in a little extra work to pound a piece of metal into the right shape to use as the handle i needed.
And i just realized i forgot to adress Sprint Car drive train in my last post, since it was asked about. They are direct drive, from the output shaft of the engine, to a live axle at the rear (thats right folks, no differential). This is the reason for rolling starts. The cars get push started, then form up. Theres a way to decouple the driveshaft so it can be pushed about or coast, but cannot be re-engaged from inside the car (make sure you dis engage this before shutting off the engine, if you like having control of your car)
and with that i will sign off its about 5 am local time and i just got off a 12 hour shift)
Yes, it is so very simple, as long as you do not consider that what you suggest
... will add a layer of exploitable code for which there is no solution.
... may cause bad experiences for a sizeable amount of users.
... could fulfill the previous points without actually being used much, and will certainly do so before being "overused".
Most of the userland/policy issues would be alot less apparent if a server running the restrictions was flagged as private, in which case the code makes no sense since you will achieve exactly the same by doing the small amount of organizing required for a semi-private server. Your suggestion will also reject someone who's built a clutch pedal that pushes a button, and admit someone who uses an xbox controller as a h-shifter.
A compromise on hardcore mode
(167 posts, started )
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