Hi Scawen, can u please make the tyres cool down bit quicker? I think with the speed of the cars going down a straight, AND the rotational speed of the tyres, they should cool down bit quicker than it is now.

Also, with the F9 feature, we only have dirt, sectional Force, and sectional temperature indicators. Can u please add a other feature for sectional tyre wear(amount of rubber left on the tyre)? Eg. put another set of numbers or coloured bars above the force indicators or something?

At the moment, we can overheat the tyres and loose grip, but it takes a while for them too cool down (too slow i think), and meanwhile we dont now how much rubber is left all the time. We can pop the tyres but wheather it's due to excessive air temp or actual rubber is worn through is unclear to me. Thanx.

These "sections", as you call them, get thinner as they wear down

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thanks mate. I didnt know that. The S2 manual I have didnt talk about this feature. Everyone please disregard my earlier suggestion!

Tyres still generate heat on a straight.

Quote from Gunn :

Tyres still generate heat on a straight.

True, although they generate a lot more in the corners. Once heated up they ought to cool off a bit down the straights.

Quote from jtw62074 :

Once heated up they ought to cool off a bit down the straights.

And they do. In LFS as well.

Quote from Batterypark :

And they do. In LFS as well.

Lemme rephrase that. "A bit more"

I am not sure about slicks, but doing a 10-15 burnout in a few cars that I have driven have not resulted in near-boiling-point-heated tires. They get hot, then they cool off rather fast.

Before trying to refute it, go and touch your cars' tires after a long burn out and tell me if it feels like, or is, 80-100*C.

Also, the hotter they get, the quicker they should cool down. Tires above 100*C being driven straight with minimal friction at 120mph will cool off more than a few degrees on a back straight.

I absolutely agree man!! Hence this post, I hope Scawen reads this and consider a change soon for patch V.

Do tyres really cool that fast? I've not seen hard data but I know rubber can hold a lot of heat (high specific heat capacity), I remember doing cool down tests on 500ml or so of boiling water at school. It takes a good few minutes before you'd want to put your hand in. Admittedly that's stationary, but that bit shouldn't be too difficult to get right (in my not not particularly knowledgable oppinion). So perhaps it's the cooling effect of moving air that is a bit weak?

We have to consider that we currently "only" have the thick rubber pads gaining and losing heat as a whole. I think in reality you'd have a much quicker temperature changing on the very outside of the tyre, but what we see is always the average temp of the whole rubber pad. Now, I have absolutely zero data or experience on this, but the overall heating behaviour seems pretty reasonable, even if you'd probably have different temperature readings IRL due to only measuring the surface temp.

I don't know too much about tires, but i would imagine that they all don't act the same. So to say that the tires should cool down faster because that is more akin to reality seems far fetched so to speak. What you should really ask for is the ability to fiddle with tire parameters
Compound hardness
sidewall stiffness
thread patterns
basically all relevant stuff that effect tire heat and life and grip.

i Imagine LFS tire algorithms arent so simple to the point where he can change a value (IE*TireCoolDownTime*) and get the resulting effect.
LFS tires act correct they heat up and cool down when they should. How great are those effects should be based on tire properties. maybe a better request would be; to be able to change realistic properties to get a desired effect.

Quote from AndroidXP :

We have to consider that we currently "only" have the thick rubber pads gaining and losing heat as a whole. I think in reality you'd have a much quicker temperature changing on the very outside of the tyre, but what we see is always the average temp of the whole rubber pad.

That's a good point. More modelling points are needed then, some going deeper into the tyre. Also atm the tyre blows once the thickness somewhere reaches zero (ignoring melting for a moment), but in reality a tyre would be useless once you've worn through the rubber to the metal/rubber combo underneath. Also won't tyre set themselves on fire eventually if you don't change them, or is that only if the tyres blow and the riding on the rims heats the rubber massively?

Quote from Bob Smith :

Do tyres really cool that fast? I've not seen hard data but I know rubber can hold a lot of heat (high specific heat capacity), I remember doing cool down tests on 500ml or so of boiling water at school. It takes a good few minutes before you'd want to put your hand in. Admittedly that's stationary, but that bit shouldn't be too difficult to get right (in my not not particularly knowledgable oppinion). So perhaps it's the cooling effect of moving air that is a bit weak?

Two points:

1. The specific heat of rubber tyres (between 1.2 and 1.7 J/K.g) is less than half that of water (about 4.1 J/K.g).

2. From what I can remember about the thermodynamics that I learnt at university, the effect of moving air on cooling something is VERY strong. It has to do with replacing the (warming up) air that surrounds the hot object with cool air; hence the fan inside computer cases.

My gut feeling is that the tyres do cool too slowly, but one would really need to generate a model to make sure.

Moving air will cool a hot area quickly as the enrgy from the hot area (tyre) moves to the cool area untill equilibrium is reached, as the air is moving over the tyre equilibrium would never be reached s othe heat would be 'drawn out' of the tyre quite rapidly.

I think tires in LFS don't cool down too slow at all. Rather too fast.

I was on a track day with an mx-5, 1.8l engine. The tires lasted for quite some time, but after some time they got really hot. Wich resulted in a lot less grip. So i drove the car to the pit and started to wait for them to cool down. And trust me... even after half an hour, they were still too hot to regain the lost grip...

Of course not every tire is the same. In my case they were good, but normal street tires. Nevertheless, i think (regarding my experience) that rubber needs quite some time to cool down, after it has become really hot.

That's exactly our point though, tyres take a long time to cool down while stationary. But when moving, particularly at higher speeds, the air cools the tyre immensly.

Quote from Bob Smith :

That's a good point. More modelling points are needed then, some going deeper into the tyre.

I think that is the key, there needs to be surface temp and then the body or wall temp. At the moment I think LFS is a compromise between the two .

I'd like to see the surface temp react much faster (i.e. heat and cool) while the body of rubber is about right as it is except I think it goes to high too easily at the moment.

That would also mean getting a flat spot would be easier which would fit real life experience. In the V8 Supercars one descent lockup and they have to pit to change tyres because the flatspot is so severe

I think you also have to consider that you have the cars body "around/in front" of the tires. Of course the tires will get some fresh air nevertheless, but i think that is overestimated (or underestimated by me ).

....and the brakes also generate a lot of heat which heats the wheels which heats the air inside the tyre which helps to maintain the temps. It's a complex issue.

Quote from Gunn :

....and the brakes also generate a lot of heat which heats the wheels which heats the air inside the tyre which helps to maintain the temps. It's a complex issue.

Yep I would like to see brake temps done and then the whole heat transfer and heating/cooling can be done in one hit. The heat of the brakes has a big impact as it heats the rims and hence the tires.

Quote from jibber :

I think you also have to consider that you have the cars body "around/in front" of the tires. Of course the tires will get some fresh air nevertheless, but i think that is overestimated (or underestimated by me ).

With the flow of air around the wheelarch I don't think that it'll make any difference. Some cars (e.g. the Trevor Sagaris) have big ugly holes in the wheelarches to let some of the excess air out! If you were air, a wheelarch isn't somewhere you'd choose to hide!

I'm not too sure, but I think one or two of the cars in LFS is an open-wheeler.

Edit: I think this issue is quite obvious because the only time you change an R2/R1 is because it's overheating. Who pits to change tires because they're too hot and not because they're worn out? "QUICK, BOYS! GET A SET OF COLD TIRES ON HERE!" Remember how much 2005 F1 tires cooled down during a quick pit stop? They said it was almost like putting on a new set of tires, temp wise. So, they were hard compounds (if that's really supposed to make that much of a difference), but still...

Edit 2: (P.S.) on a similar note, are super-hot tires really that much more slippery IRL? or do they just wear out a whole lot faster? has anyone had any experience with melting tires? It just seems to me that it would become more and more like glue the hotter it gets till it just gets shredded. At least moreso than in LFS. Do draggers worry about overheating their tires? or do they b/o in that rubber solvent anywhere near long enough?

Thinking about surface area in contact with the road and air - I think treaded tires would stay cooler in general to slicks.

Treaded tyres would heat up more slowly (less surafce area in contact with the road) and cool down faster (more surface area exposed to the air) than slicks, and thats not even considering compounds...

Quote from tristancliffe :

Some cars (e.g. the Trevor Sagaris) have big ugly holes in the wheelarches to let some of the excess air out! If you were air, a wheelarch isn't somewhere you'd choose to hide!

Nothing to do with the topic, but actually the vents in the Sagaris are closed and only there for looks in the production version, not sure why tho.