Agreed.

Even as a technological moron, I can see that, while this is being presented as a kind of 'social' option (we just want to race together), it is primarily a security issue (how can we make sure that we are who we think we are).

Actually though, I'm very impressed by Hyper's post. Maybe it is just the name which annoys me so much. It makes sense to me regarding my issue with the views: to suggest that the addition of purely decorative cockpit graphics makes for more intense competition is just ... Wrong.

I grant that for some it may help the pretence. But not me. Tristan has to some degree explained why. You can't see your mirrors in your F3? Well, I can't in my road car! This is true of all the cars and bikes I have ever owned (yep, I too am well aware of what the world looks like through a full face Arai). You have to consciously look - so the cockpit view is already failing the 'naturalistic purity test'. I can't see how leaving all that weirdly compromised cockpit detail in place is 'Hardcore'. And I can't see how taking it away is less "real" (all the views are compromised one way or another as a matter of necessity - its all simulation).

Whatever... If someone needs the Option ... .... But lets not kid anyone that its anymore than an expendable proscenium arch.

Ah, but I have the mirrors on the screen in LFS, yet I still have to look (move my eyes), and I have the natural peripheral vision to see general movement (someone diving down the inside) just like I'd get in real life. Granted it's not quite the same, but I (personally) am happy with the compromise. Cockpit view, 90° FOV and a custom camera (which is the default cockpit view, but moved forwards or backwards until I get the mirror(s) on the screen and a naturalish feeling. I couldn't race from any other view other than cockpit. It would just feel all wrong.

I am not telling anyone how but I have thought a way that - without removing come features completely- could make a mockery of a forced shifter and clutch axis.

If it's exploitable by a dumbass who knows nothing about programming (me), imagine what cheaters could come up with.

Quote from Cue-Ball :

I completely disagree. The G25 and similar three pedal setups ARE the way forward. Two pedal setups are old news. Proper three pedal setups are the controls of today.

I want to play against drivers using similar setups as my own and I should have the freedom to do so on a server that I run. You can feel free to not like it, but on my server I should be able to dictate the terms. My terms would be axis clutch required and h-shifter required. You don't like the terms? Nobody is forcing you to play with me. End of story.

this is going to be a lonely server...

Quote from duke_toaster :

I am not telling anyone how but I have thought a way that - without removing come features completely- could make a mockery of a forced shifter and clutch axis.

If it's exploitable by a dumbass who knows nothing about programming (me), imagine what cheaters could come up with.

You perhaps mean configuring other buttons as H-Gated Gears, or configuring outside programs like Logitech Profiler to do clutched Gearchanges for you, some people aiming to cheat should not destroy the idea to have a Server with H-Gate shifters and / or clutch Pedals shifters.

Quote from Fischfix :

this is going to be a lonely server...

So that Topic shouldnt bother you should it?

Perhaps the name Hardcore Mode is really the Problem to some, like Hyperactive said. Hardcore Mode implies a step over the default Simulation Mode. Maybe we should stop calling it Hardcore Mode, if thats the problem for some. Lets call it "driving-Aids-Free" Mode

Quote from George Kuyumji :

So that Topic shouldnt bother you should it?

Perhaps the name Hardcore Mode is really the Problem to some, like Hyperactive said. Hardcore Mode implies a step over the regular Simulation Mode. Maybe we should stop calling it Hardcore Mode, if thats the problem for some. Lets call it "driving-Aids-Free" Mode

Sequential gearboxes in cars that should have them (IRL, UF/XF/FX/ZR/FZR would have sequentials) isn't a driving aid.

Quote from duke_toaster :

Sequential gearboxes in cars that should have them (IRL, UF/XF/FX/ZR/FZR would have sequentials) isn't a driving aid.

It depends on what is supposed to be a Road Car in LFS. Dont think a UF ( Mini Cooper ) has F1 Paddle Shifting for example

Quote from George Kuyumji :

It depends on what is supposed to be a Road Car in LFS. Dont think a UF ( Mini Cooper ) has F1 Paddle Shifting for example

UF1 doesn't, but if UFR was real life, it would defiantly have a sequential stick (prolly not paddles).

Citroen have also made C2's with paddles, and there might be some more examples of non-supercars with paddles and/or sequential.

I agree with you duke_toaster. But GTR or Formula cars are a different matter - its about getting Rid off all driving Aids on a Server with the cars who represent Road Cars.

Hi there!

I've been reading this topic with interest (and amusement at certain points ) and have a question to all 3-pedal-users. Just out of interest: How many hours of driving did it aproximately take you guys to be up to same speed as with your previous 2-pedal-setup? Did any of you go directly from a wheel with, say, 270 or 200 degrees of rotation to the G25? And if yes, how long did it take you to adjust to the new setup (3 paddles plus extra rotation)?

Linsen

Is it just me or does it seem like people are taking for granted that LFS is already at a higher level then other 'games'. It seems nothing is ever good enough.
Anyways, it will never be real enough.. because its not real.

But if some people want special options in their races, why not.. there's more than enough servers to play on.. and more will come.
Have fun, and play fair!

Quote from EeekiE :

Using throttle blip on downshift means you'll never lock the rear wheels up for a fraction of a second while downshifting into a corner which can happen with full manual setup if you have a lapse in concentration, or you're under alot of pressure from someone behind.

Just somethin interesting.. i use a DFP and of course the sequential shifter for shifting, but i have no clutch. So to make it a little bit more difficult for myself i 'used to' turn off using throttle blips.. so when i changed gears i didnt just click, i actually click and hold the shifter in place which actually put the tranny in neutral and then i had to adjust the throttle before releasing the shifter and engaging gear. Not a real clutch, and obviously i dont have the slow grabbing of the clutch effect, but i have to adjust throttle in between gears which is also interesting.

Unfortunately i can no longer do this in patch V.. because that 'glitch' has been eliminated. Kind of a shame really, great glitch. I hope the devs put it back!!

Quote from Linsen :

Hi there!

I've been reading this topic with interest (and amusement at certain points ) and have a question to all 3-pedal-users. Just out of interest: How many hours of driving did it aproximately take you guys to be up to same speed as with your previous 2-pedal-setup? Did any of you go directly from a wheel with, say, 270 or 200 degrees of rotation to the G25? And if yes, how long did it take you to adjust to the new setup (3 paddles plus extra rotation)?

Linsen

I've been using three pedals and h-shifter for a few months now, but only the last two weeks have I been able to put in some good time. Even after those two weeks I'm not as fast. It's very easy in LFS to make a mis-shift, partly because of the way the clutch is handled (no dead area at the bottom). Also, because game shifters don't really have much feel and because they're a bit sloppy (the G25 shifter, at least) it's easier to make a mistake due to the lack of feel.

I went from the Wingman to the DFP, then to the G25. 900* rotation makes such a huge difference. I would never want to go back to a 200* wheel.

You have to mentally co-ordinate and time more processes to acheive the same results so if you're prone to making little mistakes, or lapses in concentration, it's harder; but because of that, it's also more fun and rewarding as it gets you right on edge.
It's also good for learning real world techniques.
I learned toe-heeling on LFS. Then one morning when I was driving to work and really tired and not really thinking I noticed I just toe-heel downshifted into a corner in my Mk2 Polo Not attempted it before in that car, and had no reason to but LFS was on the sub-concious mind I think. I now do it all the time in it.
I like to think of it as the XFG now

Quote from Cue-Ball :

I've been using three pedals and h-shifter for a few months now, but only the last two weeks have I been able to put in some good time. Even after those two weeks I'm not as fast. It's very easy in LFS to make a mis-shift, partly because of the way the clutch is handled (no dead area at the bottom). Also, because game shifters don't really have much feel and because they're a bit sloppy (the G25 shifter, at least) it's easier to make a mistake due to the lack of feel.

I went from the Wingman to the DFP, then to the G25. 900* rotation makes such a huge difference. I would never want to go back to a 200* wheel.

Thx for the answer!

The reason I was asking is, that I'm more of a casual driver. I don't put too many kilometers on the clock per week. Some weeks I don't get to race at all in others only for a couple of hours. I still like the idea of having a clutch, but if it takes too much time to adjust to, it might not be a very good solution for my situation - but a DFP would probably not be too hard to get used to? (I'm also using the Wingman Formula Force GP atm)

(Actually this doesn't belong in this thread, especially since it's in the improvement suggestions, so, maybe I should open a thread in the OT-forum. Sorry for bumping in )

To say sth On topic: I don't see anything wrong with what's being suggested here, provided it would be fairly easy and quick to implement. Doesn't take anything away from anybody imho, but would be a benefit to some.

Too bad not all the cars in the game have H-shifters.

Quote from Cue-Ball :

I completely disagree. The G25 and similar three pedal setups ARE the way forward. Two pedal setups are old news. Proper three pedal setups are the controls of today.

I want to play against drivers using similar setups as my own and I should have the freedom to do so on a server that I run. You can feel free to not like it, but on my server I should be able to dictate the terms. My terms would be axis clutch required and h-shifter required. You don't like the terms? Nobody is forcing you to play with me. End of story.

Something like a non-driving-aid server would be nice, but not really necessary. I always drive with the same setup as the car I'm driving, road car h-shifter and 720degrees, gtr sequential stick and 540 degrees. At first you'll be slower, but just give it time and you'll improve.
Right now with the fzr on as3 im less then a second away from the WR, so driving with less aids doesnt always have to be a disadvantage.