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i thought smx files were only the polys and didnt even include the driving durface let alon its parameters ?

It is, but you can deduce a lot from the vertice information. I guess though to some extent it might be a programmers mind reading too much information because 'I would achieve X like this, I wonder if Scawen did the same'. I might be reading too much into the information available,
but when I look at a mesh, I also ask 'why' the mesh is assembled like it is.

In any case I am worried about a potential exploit if all my thinking is correct, and dont know if the exploit is closed (99% of the time with Scawen it has already been thought about). So if I may only say there's more information that just what is to be seen, sometimes it stares you in the face, and other times it takes experience of the same programming challenges to see. This is a mix of both.

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Becky = Female ????

I don't know, i'm from the planet Arganon and we dont mate in the same way as Humans, it's all done by mail order. Sadly, on my planet we're all slow drivers - and we think of Humans as 'aliens'.

yea am gonna go with female...was wondering before "why "he" choosed "becky" as "his" name."

Yea, because a female... on a computer... on the internet... playing a game... that is about cars... and a simulation to top it off... NO WAY!

:slap: :rolleyes:

*OT dribble*

My aunt played lfs, and was faster than my uncle in the XFG around Blackwood. Both had never played a racing sim in their life, so it was independent testing.

Please continue with tyres discussion.

Quote from Becky Rose :

It is, but you can deduce a lot from the vertice information. I guess though to some extent it might be a programmers mind reading too much information because 'I would achieve X like this, I wonder if Scawen did the same'. I might be reading too much into the information available, but when I look at a mesh, I also ask 'why' the mesh is assembled like it is.

i read somewhere that lfs uses splines for the actual driving surface which might or might not be directly connected to the mesh but frankly ive got no idea if this information is even correct

Quote from Shotglass :

i read somewhere that lfs uses splines for the actual driving surface which might or might not be directly connected to the mesh but frankly ive got no idea if this information is even correct

I know that in other games, the visual surface is unrelated to the actual track surface used for the physics. For one thing, there's no need to compose the actual physics surface as a bunch of triangles / polygons for video rendering.

Someone earlier said that tyre temps in LFS act as one block of rubber instead of air + surface and sidewalls. This seems very likey imo as rubber does hold heat pretty well but when seperated by air inside and outside the tyre it should cool much faster. I am experienced with drifting in rl and when driving on brand new tyres, they heat up much faster then "bald" tyres on the rear because there is alot more rubber to substain heat and transfer it to the air inside the tyre (which expands and contracts depending on temperature) though I have never experienced a tyre explode due to it being too hot (too higher pressure) which is what happens in lfs, not because the rubber is worn away. In RL I have only experienced it pop due to delamination.

Tyres wear very fast when hot as someone also has mentioned, but in LFS I think tyres don't wear anywhere near enough under "drift" conditions due to the fact that they don't heat up fast enough (on the tread, not the inner air) which would explain why this is.

Edit: The tyres do pop due to wear and not heat (disregard previous statment) but, I still think the tyres heat up way too slow and cool too slow.

Off Topic:Who has ever had smoke trailing from their tyre when driving in a straight line? Not me... (when tyres are red hot this happens) If anyone would watch this video (mainly at 2:53) : http://youtube.com/watch?v=9W9OPNEhTrc You will notice that smoke is produced much faster then in LFS, and the tyres heat up much faster too as you can see.

Quote from Drift_junki3 :

I have never experienced a tyre explode due to it being too hot (too higher pressure) which is what happens in lfs, not because the rubber is worn away. In RL I have only experienced it pop due to delamination.

Tyres wear very fast when hot as someone also has mentioned, but in LFS I think tyres don't wear anywhere near enough under "drift" conditions due to the fact that they don't heat up fast enough (on the tread, not the inner air) which would explain why this is.

Edit: The tyres do pop due to wear and not heat (disregard previous statment) but, I still think the tyres heat up way too slow and cool too slow.

No, no, you were right... Bring those tires up to 200° and they will pop, no matter what...

Quote from Drift_junki3 :

Who has ever had smoke trailing from their tyre when driving in a straight line? Not me... (when tyres are red hot this happens) If anyone would watch this video (mainly at 2:53) : http://youtube.com/watch?v=9W9OPNEhTrc You will notice that smoke is produced much faster then in LFS, and the tyres heat up much faster too as you can see.

They heat up faster/smoke more because they are drifting in that video..

This happened in LeMans race lap 18. Tyre wasn't overheated much but it had some wear.You can see the thickness left on the rubber amount, those scrs taken on lap 17 (before the blow) and just after the blow(18).Silly me not to add a third frame showing the fresh condition of it..but according to this i could say it would be better if the wear amount was shown in some bigger indicator rather than a few pixels because if you don't have much experience you can't get the tyre is in bad condition.

Was it flat spotted (i.e. one segment had no tread)? What was the tyre temp of the inside edge?

Looks like a flat spot to me, is pretty common in long races when you forget to conserve tires.

I bet it was a flat spot... Locked you tires up at some point of the race? That's where you popped your tire...

Looks like the FZ50. That car is particularly notorious for locking the fronts.

I was in the same race at Aston Historic, and you most likely flatspotted the tyre in the approach of the 180° turn before the last chicane.
It's a tricky approach with the FZ5 because you have to set up the car for braking during the last left kink. If you don't notice you're locking a tyre the locked tyre will be dragged over the ground all the way until turn in point, 100-150 meters. In another league race I was in on that track someone blew his tyre after 8 approaches to that corner.

Vain

Quote from mpn89 :

An interesting thing about tyre temps is that LFS perhaps always displays the average reading or "pit reading" - not peaks, or it doesn't simulate peak temps? IRL tyre temps vary greatly while on track from and can go from 150 degrees f to 370 degrees f within seconds during a turn. Valkenburgh had some figures of tyres cooling at 50 degrees fahrenheit per second down high-speed straights from their peak temps after the corner. This is why you see tyres "shine" in corners and then go dull again on straights.

According to this, if tyres in LFS doesn't cool down on the straight by 40C*, they don't heat-up in corners as much, as they should. Otherwise, they would pop-up after few corners by gaining 20-40C on each.

Checked the replay again but couldn't see any flat spots.I didn't do a big lockup i was trying to be gentle to the tyres. The tyre indicator doesn't show any flatspots even seconds before the blow.I can't remember the heat of that section and it doesn't say it in replay but the red color goes back to the green in a straight so it shouldn't be that hot maybe. Combination of heat and wear amount might have caused this. i did some lockups but not big ones it doesn't seem to have deadspots even after the blow... Maybe it was a faulty tire.Is this sim that real??(wish it is)

I have one thing to point out, that may or may not mean anything here...

There is definitely a "tread surface" temperature that we are not shown in LFS, and the three tread bars must be average temperature of the block it represents. The phenomenon the above guy pointed out in LFS where tires smoke on straights, happens as most here know when the over heated porton of any given tire contacts the road (hence the puffs if you have a hot spot on a tire). If you warm the tires by doing a brakestand, they start to smoke long before the indicator begins to show an optimal temperature (green). This means that inside the sim, the portion of the tread in actual contact with the road is a "red" temperature, hot enough to smoke even if the indicator only shows that it's approaching "green". It's just not shown on the F9 display. Which makes sense, since something mathematically has to be driving up the temperature of the entire depth of the tread (similar to how the air eventually heats up to the temp of the tread).

So, my point that it's not likely due to a friction/heat calculation issue but rather how heat is transferred to and / or retained in the rest of the tire once the tread surface heats up.

If you mean you're locking up the wheels but watching the F9 indicators, remember they show the top of the tyre, not the section of the tyre on the ground which is heating up.

"Brakestand" is another term for a standing burnout where the car is held in place by the brakes.

Quote from Bob Smith :

If you mean you're locking up the wheels but watching the F9 indicators, remember they show the top of the tyre, not the section of the tyre on the ground which is heating up.

You talking to me?

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

You talking to me?

I think he was but misunderstood what you meant by "brakestand".

Ah.

Not sure what else to call that silly antic

I guess that all makes sense, but it doesn't explain why when I lock up the brakes I get a huge trail of smoke but don't when doing a standing burnout (brakestand, linelock, skid) as the heat generated would be relitively similar.