This poll is for the people who have expressed an interest in attending the 3rd LFS UK Gathering / Meeting / whatever, as detailed here. Please do not vote otherwise. Thank you.

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Hi again guys

I've just received an email from Adrian with a provisional timetable for the event, please give it a look over. It's based on 20 people staying 4 hours. I'm starting to think that limiting the event to 20 people might be a sensible although the nearly 30 interested people in the poll doesn't seem to reflect the discussion in the thread about the latest information I've been posting, so maybe we won't even get 20 people...

This is timetable 1, the poll is not for this old timetable

Quote :

Arrival

• 15 minutes driver registration (can be reduced if names supplied in advance)
  
• 10 minutes equipment briefing and event overview
  

GPL Activity

• 15 minutes - 1st Qualifying Session (Group 1)
  
• 15 minutes - 1st Qualifying Session (Group 2)
  
• 15 minutes - 2nd Qualifying Session (Group 1)
  
• 15 minutes - 2nd Qualifying Session (Group 2)
  
• 10 minutes - Race (Bottom 10 qualifiers)
  
• 10 minutes - Race (Top 10 qualifiers)
  

LFS Activity

• 5 minutes - LFS briefing
  

Car and track combo 1:

• 15 minutes - Qualifying Session (Group 1)
  
• 15 minutes - Qualifying Session (Group 2)
  
• 15 minutes - Race (Bottom 10 qualifiers)
  
• 15 minutes - Race (Top 10 qualifiers)
  

Car and track combo 2:

• 15 minutes - Qualifying Session (Group 1)
  
• 15 minutes - Qualifying Session (Group 2)
  
• 15 minutes - Race (Bottom 10 qualifiers)
  
• 15 minutes - Race (Top 10 qualifiers)
  

Close

• 10 minutes - Champagne and Trophy presentations
  

Also I've only received 5 emails from interested members as requested here. I'm not using this as a 100% confirmation, it just gives me a list of people interested and also means I can send you all an email when I create a new thread can make use of your input, such as this one. You'll all be BCC'd too so don't think 20 other people will get your email address - they won't.

I like it except about having to play GPL. I guess I will get the game and give it a try to see if I can relate anything from LFS into GPL, hopefully I could score a decent result in GPL =)

I would prefer to run completely LFS but I would be flexabile with this.

I think we could all supply names in advance, so perhaps we could cut down the registering of drivers, and equipment overview.

I'm sure most of are aware that you shouldn't slam your feet on the pedals, or wrench the steering wheel unduely, nor apply unnecessary force to the shifter mechanisms. I wouldn't imagine anyone stupid enough to try and eat or drink while attempting to win a race either...

Other than that it sounds good

Would it be possible to atleast be sure for LFS that we have at the very minimum, all of team inferno's setups available on each rig? I don't fancy my chances winning anything with RACE_S.

I would also quite like to have all the combo's we will be using set up in advance, so there's no quibbling about it, and I can get some practice in, or I'm just going to lose. Perhaps this can be done by democratic vote?

I hope these suggestions are useful.

edit:
I would be open to a just LFS session also.

977

After some serious consideration and looking at the times you have proposed Ben, I have come up with the following modifications. However, please note that I am just pointing these things out, I am not saying they are better because.... well let me explain.

Suggestion 1
My main change would be in the length of the qualifying sessions. One thing I think would help would be to have more shorter qualifying sessions.

The 15 minute sessions for GPL are as long as the race itself, so it might be better having 10 minute or even 5 minute qualifying stints.

The main problem with this, that I can see, is that this will involve people swapping over more and could lead to actually having less time and maybe even running out of time before the races are finished.

In the LFS sessions, we have 15 minutes of qualify and then 15 minutes race. If the qualify was dropped to the following:

Quote :

LFS Activity

• 5 minutes - LFS briefing

Car and track combo 1:

• 10 minutes - Qualifying Session (Group 1)
  
• 10 minutes - Qualifying Session (Group 2)
  
• 5 minutes - Qualifying Session (Group 1)
  
• 5 minutes - Qualifying Session (Group 2)
  
• 15 minutes - Race (Bottom 10 qualifiers)
  
• 15 minutes - Race (Top 10 qualifiers)

Car and track combo 2:

• 10 minutes - Qualifying Session (Group 1)
  
• 10 minutes - Qualifying Session (Group 2)
  
• 5 minutes - Qualifying Session (Group 1)
  
• 5 minutes - Qualifying Session (Group 2)
  
• 15 minutes - Race (Bottom 10 qualifiers)
  
• 15 minutes - Race (Top 10 qualifiers)

...then you get the chance to look at other peoples lines and techniques during qualifying and then get to put them into practice in your last 5 minute qualifying stint. This *might* give more excitement!

Like I say, it might also make it a logistical nightmare.

Suggestion 2
Finally, I personally think we should take 5 minutes from the GPL qualifying sessions and add it on to the LFS Race sessions.

So in summary, my updated version of events is as follows:

Quote :

Arrival

• 15 minutes driver registration (can be reduced if names supplied in advance)
  
• 10 minutes equipment briefing and event overview

GPL Activity

• 10 minutes - 1st Qualifying Session (Group 1)
  
• 10 minutes - 1st Qualifying Session (Group 2)
  
• 10 minutes - 2nd Qualifying Session (Group 1)
  
• 10 minutes - 2nd Qualifying Session (Group 2)
  
• 10 minutes - Race (Bottom 10 qualifiers)
  
• 10 minutes - Race (Top 10 qualifiers)

LFS Activity

• 5 minutes - LFS briefing

Car and track combo 1:

• 10 minutes - Qualifying Session (Group 1)
  
• 10 minutes - Qualifying Session (Group 2)
  
• 5 minutes - Qualifying Session (Group 1)
  
• 5 minutes - Qualifying Session (Group 2)
  
• 20 minutes - Race (Bottom 10 qualifiers)
  
• 20 minutes - Race (Top 10 qualifiers)

Car and track combo 2:

• 10 minutes - Qualifying Session (Group 1)
  
• 10 minutes - Qualifying Session (Group 2)
  
• 5 minutes - Qualifying Session (Group 1)
  
• 5 minutes - Qualifying Session (Group 2)
  
• 20 minutes - Race (Bottom 10 qualifiers)
  
• 20 minutes - Race (Top 10 qualifiers)

Close

• 10 minutes - Champagne and Trophy presentations

Perhaps Adrian could shed some light on how easy changeovers are and if they should be kept to a minimum. If they should, then only my final change (Suggestion 2) would be valid.

Thanks

Tim

If anyone attending has never driven GPL, it might be better to use either the 65's or the 69's. IMO, they're more pleasant to drive than the originals anyway (less in the way of grip anomalies...).

I personally would go with Tiger's suggestion #2...looks good to me

/me starts hunting for old copy of GPL

Tiger - if you take the 5 minutes away from the GPL qualifying sessions, shouldn't the LFS race sessions become 20 minutes each? Atm you've got 20 minutes of spare time in your timetable.

I'm not sure about the shorter qualifying sessions, it often takes a couple of laps to get tyres up to temperature / back into the flow. Depending what combo we choose, 5 minutes might not even be enough for 2 laps.

z3r0c00l - yep, the car and track combos will all be decided upon in due course. There'll be plenty of time to practise.

Setups are a good point, the centre usually runs with fixed setups for the general public, I'm fine with that for GPL (unless anyone knows better) but for LFS I have my concerns. From the photos it doesn't look like we will have keyboard or mouse access while racing. With the changing of drivers on machines I doubt we'll be able to have personalised setups however I see no reason why we couldn't use our own "fixed setups". An issue we can discuss more in depth later.

Names will of course be supplied in advance, I'm trying to build up a list for my own use but still only up to 6 emails. I know not everyone checks the forum as regularly as my sad self but it's been over 2 days since I first asked, I did expect them to come in a little quicker. It worries me really.

Its looking unlikely Ill be able to go, although Im still very interested if it becomes feasable. I like the current timetable proposal although the GPL practice sessions are at 15 minutes are already a bit on the short side IMO. GPL has a huge learning curve apart from unknown tracks it is much much harder to drive the car let alone race it, therefore Id suggestion if GPL was run it be run in 2 practice blocks (maybe 10 then 15) for everyone with no attempt at a race. If GPL was run Id also suggest against the 65 mod theyre easier once youve got used to them but actually require a different (and further detached from modern cars) than either 67 or 69. Having said that I dont really think GPL will neccesarily be a great success for those who havent driven it before.

(Sorry about the complete lack of punctuation FF is playing up)

Quote from Bob Smith :

Setups are a good point, the centre usually runs with fixed setups for the general public, I'm fine with that for GPL (unless anyone knows better) but for LFS I have my concerns. From the photos it doesn't look like we will have keyboard or mouse access while racing. With the changing of drivers on machines I doubt we'll be able to have personalised setups however I see no reason why we couldn't use our own "fixed setups". An issue we can discuss more in depth later.

How about running the Easy race patch U updated sets *hint* *hint*

Seriously though Id of thought pre arranged generic sets would be best possibly ones geared towards mild understeer if some people dont like tail happy sets. Personally I think having a choice of sets (other than pre agreed generic understeer and oversteer weighted sets) would just waste the little available time. Possibly a pre agreed shortlist of random combos?

I think a fixed setup would please most people and reduce driver change times to a minimum. As long as we have plenty of time before the event to practice with the setup and combo, there shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Perhaps we could trial 2 or 3 setups in the next few weeks, and have a poll to select the setup that we use during the event?

Driver changes in theory shouldn't take too long, they needn't take much longer than changing when karting. Perhaps the pair for the most professional change-over can get an award.

I'll see what I can manage on the easy race sets front but I was thinking of maybe creating two one-off sets for whichever two combos we choose, where everyone can input problems until we get a setup everyone can drive but isn't painful for the pros. I just won't tell Madman though, he can't drive my sets for shit.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Tiger - if you take the 5 minutes away from the GPL qualifying sessions, shouldn't the LFS race sessions become 20 minutes each? Atm you've got 20 minutes of spare time in your timetable.

I'm not sure about the shorter qualifying sessions, it often takes a couple of laps to get tyres up to temperature / back into the flow. Depending what combo we choose, 5 minutes might not even be enough for 2 laps.

Yes they should become 20 minutes! That is what was in my mind while I was writing it, but then I forgot to make the changes. Edited now.

Good point about the 5 minutes not being enough!

I didn't really want to say this because I wanted to give GPL a chance and not turn the event into a LFS only event, but I am beginning to think that without the GPL we would get more useful time. We are mostly LFS racers, some of us do play or have played GPL, but I would like to get better at LFS and use the time to practice what I have seen others do during the 4 hours and it feels like using GPL is wasting time which could be spent getting some benefit.

Tim

Whether the fact that some of us heretics haven't raced on GPL should affect the decision to use purely LFS or not, is upto the crowd imho Personally I don't mind, but that may cause dangerous circumstances for everyone else on the track.

Any word/comments on combos, specifically under LFS, as some of us would like to get practising Or did you have a free-for-all in mind Ben?

That's the next step, no point deciding combos now if we decide to scrap GPL and have a third LFS race. Best to pick all the combos at once so we can get a good spread.

I prefer an hour of GPL, IMO that is enough, the 1 hour 20 as originally proposed seems a bit much for an LFS meet.

I still like the idea of some GPL, just for variety and give us something a little different to talk about. Ultimately we should go with the majority. I think I should email a few of the people who posted in the main thread as being keen but have since disappeared.

Perhaps a quick poll to see if we want to keep GPL at all? A shame we can't have two polls per thread but I can always replace the current poll and start afresh.

Yo Bob,

Just trying to catch up with the forum developments after my 9 day trip abroad.

IMO i would scrap GPL from the list, unless the majority of people attending the meet would have some GPL experience. I mean the combination of GPL + Newb = track mayhem. GPL is quite a difficult sim to get use to if you have never played it before which could cause the races to be a bit messy.

I myself have played gpl a few years ago but not seriously enough to consider myself to be quick.

I would be pro for scrapping GPL and having justa Pure LFS meet.

mad

I agree totally =) Nobody has any real GPL experience and another LFS config would be fun =)

Hi,

Ultimately by hiring the venue by the hour you can have the event run as you like. You are the customer, we are here to please you. However, some things for you to consider based on what we know ...

1) At this point in our evolution with LFS, running anything other than LFS default race setups will take time to configure and reduce track time
2) Running non standard set-ups advantages those with more time to spend getting them right.
3) Running standard setups makes for a better level playing filed for all
4) We have made great strides in making the immersive experience of GPL accessible to a broad audience without compromising realism
5) The venue is primarily based on GPL today. You might be interested to see things we have done with it. Things that we have not finished doing for LFS at this time.
6) I agee that switching GPL to hot lapping only may be desirable
7) Your LFS experience and ability to practice in advance, means that less qualifying and more racing will be appropriate

I'm now going to try and keep out of this thread and wait to hear back from Bob...

Adrian Thomson (F1 Race Centre Manager)

Quote from apthomson :

1) At this point in our evolution with LFS, running anything other than LFS default race setups will take time to configure and reduce track time
2) Running non standard set-ups advantages those with more time to spend getting them right.
3) Running standard setups makes for a better level playing filed for all

Sure, the equal setups idea is good, it would be too much hassle for everyone to run their own setups. However the default sets are quite frankly pants, I suspect everyone going to the event would glady lose a couple of minutes of track time to ditch the default setups that LFS ships with. No point spending another 2 minutes on the track if it's another 2 minutes we're not enjoying ourselves to our fullest.

Since LFS remembers the last setup you used (IIRC - will double check) I can just mail you whatever sets we come up with prior to the event so whenever you give the system a last minute test you should be able to pre-select them at the point. Then we arrive we're ready to rock 'n' roll.

Quote from apthomson :

7) Your LFS experience and ability to practice in advance, means that less qualifying and more racing will be appropriate

Agreed, but we don't want races too long incase the field gets too spread apart. Best to keep it exciting and fun. Also it will still some take some time to familiarise ourselves with your equipment.

I wouldn't be too nervous about racing GPL. I take the point made about the 65s, but anyone who can put in consistent laps in the Sauber should be able to adapt to the 69 cars. Make the circuit somewhere like Kyalami (challenging, fast, but with a relatively small number of corners to remember) and I think even someone without any sim experience would be able to complete a race and get something from the event.

Quote from nihil :

I wouldn't be too nervous about racing GPL. I take the point made about the 65s, but anyone who can put in consistent laps in the Sauber should be able to adapt to the 69 cars. Make the circuit somewhere like Kyalami (challenging, fast, but with a relatively small number of corners to remember) and I think even someone without any sim experience would be able to complete a race and get something from the event.

I take your point, and I absolutely agree with it.

If this was an all day event where we could do the morning in GPL and then have some lunch while all the equipment is reconfigured for the afternoon's LFS Session, with "seat" time limited to the 2 hours each, then this would work beautifully.

However, we are limited to 4 hours at the venue, with each person getting 2 hours of "seat" time. Therefore, I believe we have to be realistic about how we use the time, and having a GPL and LFS session, to me, is not realistic.

Tim

The more specific question I want to ask is what does GPL offer us that LFS does not have in terms on the venue experience?

Viper93 - A good question. And I started to answer it in my head a number of times before realising that the answer lies in a long list of small details. The venue has grown to be what it is over the last 3-4 years. Continualy being tweaked with GPL in mind. In contrast we have been working with LFS for a much shorter time period and it is nowhere near as integrated as our GPL package- yet. We are working on it but it is not there yet.

A few illustrative examples of GPL integration

1) Automated lap time capture and and display with driver names on Race Control Monitor
2) Fully automated lap time to web site mechanisms
3) Printed circuit diagrams for visitor usage
4) Car setups tuned for beginnners and experienced drivers
5) Separate physical timing bars for GPL lap data
6) Automated multi car setup utilities to minimise gaps between races
7) 100's of GPL specific tweaks to optimise performance
8) etc

I'm not saying our LFS setup is poor but the GPL experience has a 3 year head start. That coupled with what we have done to minimise the common experience that GPL is too bl**dy hard

Happy to talk more when people are here ... but must get back to work now ...