So I'm planning a trip to the nordschleife late summer, and, I want to know the track as best I can before I get there.

I'm not interested in whether anyone thinks this will or wont help, so don't bother telling me, because I know it wont. But it sounds like fun. So, suggestions?

GPL is the one with the best physics, but the track is a little different now than it was in 1967, including the addition of very high curbs and the removal of the south loop to make room for the GP track.

Forza and GT4 probably have reasonably accurate representations of the modern track, but naturally the physics aren't nearly as good.

There are also videos on the net that show full laps of the ring in various vehicles. They will be much more useful in picking out landmarks than any game.

GT4's Nordschleife looks pretty good, may help you memorizing it. And you can get a pretty well-made add-on for GTR2 (teh evil)

for rFactor there's also Nordschleife "All Roads" version that includes the roads near the track: http://rfactorcentral.com/deta ... Nordschleife%20All%20Road

Quote from z3r0c00l :

So I'm planning a trip to the nordschleife late summer, and, I want to know the track as best I can before I get there.

I'm not interested in whether anyone thinks this will or wont help, so don't bother telling me, because I know it wont. But it sounds like fun. So, suggestions?

You didn't want advice, I give you mine anyway: Remember the Top Gear episode where Clarkson drove the Jag around the 'ring... There was one driver which he spoke to who said he drove the track in a video game, but even he was stumped how bumpy it was compared to the game... So memorizing it from a game can hurt you (quite literally)...

GT4 by far has the best 'ring IMO. Not exactly top notch physics, but its a blast to drive. IIRC it was mapped using GPS data.

The closest I've seen for PC is the "All Roads" version for rF. Its pretty good, but looks a bit wide in areas compared to onboard videos. Still a work in progress as well but its more than drivable.

Enthusia has the ring & pretty good driving physics - the best of any console game IMO, but its version of the track feels a bit flatter, and the graphics are more dull than GT4's. If you have a PS2 its only a fiver though.

Looking forward to trying out nordschleife in Forza in a couple of days, any other Xbox games have this track?

GT4 has the best one yeah. Forza's isn't that great, it feels flatter and the scenery feels innaccurate too.

rFactor and other games have some decent versions, but I still think the GT4 version is the best.

Quote from deggis :

for rFactor there's also Nordschleife "All Roads" version that includes the roads near the track: http://rfactorcentral.com/deta ... Nordschleife%20All%20Road

Yeah the rF version with a road car is about the only sim/game combo that will be of any use to you in learning the 'ring. If you're going to use it as a serious aid then don't forget that most road car mods in rF have far too much grip, the BMW M3 E46 and Caterham road car mods are the best ones to look at.

Quote from deggis :

for rFactor there's also Nordschleife "All Roads" version that includes the roads near the track: http://rfactorcentral.com/deta ... Nordschleife%20All%20Road

yeah that version is by far the best version. There is also a version for GTR2 that is very good if your that way inclined.

Anything thats out there currently for GTR2 is the old GPL version just updated a little, but still innaccurate to the current layout.

The newest rF version ("all roads" by Raceking) is completely scratch made. Although, the 24 hour layout is inaccurate; the cars do not go through the new section on the GP course, they cut through it instead of going around that fun hairpin.

What I miss from raceking's version is the tourist layout. It was more fun imho; the addition of the GP track ruins the course for me. It's two completely different tracks merged into one and I'm not a fan. Beats anything else, though

Only car mods for the rF version I've found worthwhile, was the BMW M3 (except for the poor sounds and the tendency to oversteer while changing down gear), and the VW Lupo one is pretty good, bit low powered but I've yet to come accross any other nice cars in rF.

I've had a lot of fun with the BMW in the 2003 ETCC mod. Can't attest to realism, because I don't know how an ETCC car should handle, but it's fun!

As most people have already said, GT4 is the best, but you should also try Tourist Trophy, you'll notice how bumpy it is on Tourist Trophy.

I learned it on GT4 before going there a couple of years ago. I had played it a lot on GPL but with the more accurate, present-day version on GT4, I was able to really get some of the lines down. I also spent a lot of time watching on board videos.

As for your doubt that it will help... it definitely will help in my opinion. You should have a reasonable idea of the line and a good idea of where the track goes when you get there. This means you can focus more on motorbikes and quick cars flying up in your mirrors, and on changing conditions on the track, etc.

Whatever you do though, take it easy when you get there. You should have an idea of the line, but the individual bumps aren't all accurate in GT4, and some of them will have a much bigger effect on your car in real life, the tarmac is a lot more slippery in some places than others, and in the morning, shaded areas may be frosty, etc. There is always the chance of coming round a corner to an accident as well (we saw one pretty much every lap).

If you're sensible though, you'll be fine! And knowing the track a bit makes it a lot more fun. We were driving a 1.8 litre Mercedes convertible rental (best they could give us...) and we went past 911s, Impreza STis, Escort Cosworths and Focus RSs quite often because we knew where we were going and a lot of people didn't...

Quote from Rtsbasic :

Only car mods for the rF version I've found worthwhile, was the BMW M3 (except for the poor sounds and the tendency to oversteer while changing down gear), and the VW Lupo one is pretty good, bit low powered but I've yet to come accross any other nice cars in rF.

Some good mods:

Bettle race, 200bhpish, fast for Bettles but not unrealistically so and scary at 120mph. Fun to drive plenty of oversteer.

60s GT don't expect much grip and the Cobra has no stopping ability but is ridiculously quick in a straight line. Top notch mod, Daytona coupe my favourite car, half way between Cobra/GTO.

Don't overlook the standard OW trainers they have the kind of character/feel also seen in the above two mods lacking from most rF mods.

FIA GT it is GTR2 so don't expect miracle physics, still jolly good graphics and plays a lot faster than GTR1 let alone 2 ever did on my system.

I'd suggest both the rTrainer and Bettles as suitable material for learning the 'ring in without being bored to death in a straight line.

F1 challenge with the mod F1 Seven that contains Nordschleife

My personal tip:
Don't "learn" it with a videogame. Use onboard-footage to memorize the corners. Drive it with some sim once or twice to see wether you remember everything well, but don't burn down 20 laps in any simulator, it'll hurt your perception because of the deficiencies of the game.
For onboard-footage: www.renn.tv

Vain

or here http://www.frankuhlig.de/index.php?name=Downloads

Quote from Vain :

My personal tip:
Don't "learn" it with a videogame. Use onboard-footage to memorize the corners. Drive it with some sim once or twice to see wether you remember everything well, but don't burn down 20 laps in any simulator, it'll hurt your perception because of the deficiencies of the game.
For onboard-footage: www.renn.tv

Vain

I think if it's not a very good representation of the track, this would definitely be true. But I learned the lines of the current day circuit on GT4, and did a lot of laps, comparing lines to those in videos. I found in GT4, my lines were very close to in the videos I've seen, and the lines I observed experienced drivers do when I visited.

I think the problems come when people who play GT4 go there and expect to match their video game laptimes There are some variations between the GT4 track and real life, but on the whole it's very close and good enough to learn reasonable lines to get around on your first go there.

Quote from Vain :

My personal tip:
Don't "learn" it with a videogame. Use onboard-footage to memorize the corners. Drive it with some sim once or twice to see wether you remember everything well, but don't burn down 20 laps in any simulator, it'll hurt your perception because of the deficiencies of the game.
For onboard-footage: www.renn.tv

Vain

If you drive a journey in your car you'll probably be able to do it again if someone else drives you won't have a clue. Watching vids can give you a good feel for what the 'ring is like but actually driving it will do you far better. Try looking for a copy of the rather excelent BMW drivers guide to the 'ring that's knocking around the place in a pdf file (I think legally).

Cheers, will give them a go once I've got my wheel set up in my flat.

Just seems with most rF mods, they look very pretty & occationally sound impressive, but what happens on screen doesn't translate well to what your feeling. Most mods act a bit funny when oversteering as well.

Quote from ajp71 :

Some good mods:

Bettle race, 200bhpish, fast for Bettles but not unrealistically so and scary at 120mph. Fun to drive plenty of oversteer.

60s GT don't expect much grip and the Cobra has no stopping ability but is ridiculously quick in a straight line. Top notch mod, Daytona coupe my favourite car, half way between Cobra/GTO.

Don't overlook the standard OW trainers they have the kind of character/feel also seen in the above two mods lacking from most rF mods.

FIA GT it is GTR2 so don't expect miracle physics, still jolly good graphics and plays a lot faster than GTR1 let alone 2 ever did on my system.

I'd suggest both the rTrainer and Bettles as suitable material for learning the 'ring in without being bored to death in a straight line.

Quote from Michael Denham :

and good enough to learn reasonable lines to get around on your first go there.

Exactly that's what I mean. You can digitally learn which line to drive. But you shouldn't learn where it's safe to brake or where you can accelerate. Real life will be different from that.

Vain

Quote from Rtsbasic :

Just seems with most rF mods, they look very pretty & occasionally sound impressive, but what happens on screen doesn't translate well to what your feeling. Most mods act a bit funny when oversteering as well.

Very true, the ISI engine isn't that bad in the end of the day, most of the tire/physics issues are down to people who don't have a clue about physics being the main content producers (I include SimBin in that ). Unfortunately those who spend time on physics tend to get their work cast a side on arguments that it's not pretty enough or that it's unrealistically hard to drive (those statements real piss me off as they're mostly made by people have absolutely no clue at all). Far too many mods end up with grip just magically added to make it behave more like people think it does in reality (worst examples F430 road mod and HRC Pikes Peak cars pull 3G illepall).

Unfortunately the community seem to be rather dippy when it comes to real world cars/physics compared to the LFS forum and get led easily by the odd arsehole who turns up claiming to be a Ferrari/Porsche racer so therefore he must be right when it comes to judging physics, funniest was when someone argued that Porsche engined Daytona Prototype was realistic because it handled like his 911, the mod was pretty realistically done and handled nothing like a 911

People also seem to think that a comment on the physics is an insult to everything else people put time into. For example people couldn't seem to understand that I was trying to be constructive when I pointed out that a Plymouth Baricuda shouldn't be pulling 2G

[/rant]

Bloody hell I just had a rant defending ISI

Quote from Vain :

Exactly that's what I mean. You can digitally learn which line to drive. But you shouldn't learn where it's safe to brake or where you can accelerate. Real life will be different from that.

Vain

Yeah, of course you need to understand the limits of using a game to learn a track....but as long as you just focus on learning the track and the lines, I don't see what's wrong with putting a lot of time in on a game like GT.

Quote from LFSn00b :

Imho GT4 has the best Nordschleife track.

*cringes*

I ..... think ... i have to agreee!!