Hi Everybody,
I think most of the physics in LFS is extremely good, but the damage modelling seems to be almost restricted to cosmetic damage. Even after a bad flip over you can usually drive on, and it takes a very hard crash to have more than steering and grip affected.

For comparison, IRL this happened to me last week: http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/ko ... 0the%20Front.JPG.jpg.html
This was not even really a crash, just a little curb contact at about 40km/h, but still the car is totalled *sigh* and I had to get it towed as it would not move on its own. (Oh, it was my GF driving and well below the speed limit, no illegal racing here, just a damn slippery road)

Well, what I'm saying is that LFS would be a lot more fun if you could not just spin out at every corner and then continue, but if you really had to take some care of your car, if you wanted to survive the race. As it is now, I think the game is still too Acarde-ish, and this takes away from the simulation character of the game.

PS: First post, please dont be too rude!

ello, welcome to the forumS!

the damage modeling in LFS is only the way it is because the current version of S2 is only an alpha!

the devs have loads of stuff they wanna do and damage is on the list, aswell as weather n stuff like that

PS shame about the car!

damit! sorry for your car, i hope your gf is well... btw. SPIKES FOR THE WIN

Hi,
yes I suppose that is part of the reason. But looking at how well (IMHO) the "cosmetic" damage modelling is done, and how the car can sustain serious damage if you hit it really hard, I have the feeling that the devs kept the damage "below realistic" on purpose. I think I once managed to completely wreck a wheel so that it would not steer at all anymore, but that was when I was hitting a concrete wall at 150km/h or so. IRL the same damage should occur at about 50km/h, so all the Devs have to do would be to change some numbers...

Well, I love the game as it is, I was just wondering if there was a specific reason for this apparent "shortcoming".

Quote from Fischfix :

damit! sorry for your car, i hope your gf is well... btw. SPIKES FOR THE WIN

We were lucky, nobody got hurt - even our dog on the back seat survived without any scratches!
But still, in this particular case I would have preferred the LFS type of damage modelling ;-)

Quote from Sky Gordon :

Well, I love the game as it is, I was just wondering if there was a specific reason for this apparent "shortcoming".

As said earlier, the biggest reason is that LFS is WIP. I have written something about LFS' damage model and I'm very eager to update it in near future

I hope you learned your lesson; never let your girlfriend drive your car.

As said, LFS is still a WIP; basically the damage model was introduced in an effort to curb T1 crashes. It didn't work too well it seems, though. T1 crashes are just as common and stupid as they've ever been.

Hopefully if radiator or other damage related to hitting another car from behind can be implemented It would make a big difference at t1 and in other situations.

hmmm. iv been damaged so that i cant drive anymore. but i think if the damage is goin to be changed, then so should the collision model.

shame about the crash. accidents arent good.

This is a really lazy way of walking your dog!

http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/ko ... 0German%20Parking.JPG.jpg

Would be kool to see a good damage model in LFS. Would make it feel even more realistic than it already does

I'd for now be happy with just a nice metal twisting, scrapping, screeching, glass shattering, bits falling sound effect when crashing. Instead of that thud!

For now the damage model is fine

Mad

Well as they always say good things come to those who wait. So lets just wait a while

Quote from tristancliffe :

This is a really lazy way of walking your dog!

same car? its got german numbern plate?

Quote from Sky Gordon :

But still, in this particular case I would have preferred the LFS type of damage modelling ;-)

The flight to the moon and continuous spinning for a minute?

Quote from [RCG]Boosted :

same car? its got german numbern plate?

sorry to interupt, but i assume this is just a "EU" numbers-plate, and no special german one, because it says "hsk-xxx" (guesses for helsinki)
.

regards

reminds me of hyper last avatar ^^

Quote from micha1980de :

sorry to interupt, but i assume this is just a "EU" numbers-plate, and no special german one, because it says "hsk-xxx" (guesses for helsinki)

its definately german ... got tüff plates and everything ... finnish ones look different judging by a quick google search

To the OP, we mostly all agree, the damage model could be better. But until forces are actually absorbed somehow in deformation, which doesn't seem to be in at all yet, we won't see much change in how damage is dealt. To me it seems there's some kind of threshold under which certain amount of damage doesn't happen, that's why small contacts usually don't do much damage, but do make your car rebound around as the forces are exchanged but they are not absorbed by body/frame deformation (that's what I guess from experience). Good example is when you go wide and lightly clip a sidewall like at the last turn at Fern Bay Club, if your rear catches the wall, it just bounces back out (usually followed by the front end hitting the wall too) and you're on your way mostly unscarred.

If the crash is bigger though, you get the damage, but you still bounce back almost as much as the small contact. This is different from what you'd see happening in RL, basicly, for the small and bigger crash, you'll get deformation absorbtion before bounce, but for small clips your body will suffer and rebound a bit like we do now, for bigger crashes, you'll have massive deformation, but less rebound than we see right now. Going head on after a straight in a tire wall, the car crumples until it hits the hard limit (Scawen has made some parts of the car completely static and unalterable) but the forces seem to still be completely applied to the harder core of the car without having been reduced in the other parts' deformation.

I guess we might see something better in the future. For S3, I dream of an aerodynamic model that considers each body panel of the cars as a wing exerting some kind of aerodynamic force/effect, and damage to each of those panels affecting the cars' handling. Even better would be the possibility to lose those panels following rubs, crashes, etc., like having a basic aerodynamic model of the car's frame, but with each panel covering and nullifying it until the frame is exposed. But I'm just dreaming here.

Anyway, if you want to see how quickly you can screw up your car, load up a track with ramps, and take two or three high speed jumps, landing hard on your front and you'll see the suspension dies pretty fast. Some cars, like open wheelers, get completely wrecked in about one jump. That kinda backs my idea of a threshold cause in a race, hitting curbs over and over doesn't seem to affect the suspension as fast as it should.

Like everyone else has said the damage was put in to stop deliberate wrecking and T1 crashes. But also it acts as another thingy to keep an eye on in long races, because excessive kurb hopping can damage your suspension.

How much damage you get depends on the car, the S1 cars seem to be able to take quite a few hits before it affects the handling. However in the GTRs or single seaters one brush with the wall can completely ruin your race. Small damage may not stop you racing but it can seriously affect your pace.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

Like everyone else has said the damage was put in to stop deliberate wrecking and T1 crashes.

Really? IMHO its the damage model that encourages wrecking - its great fun to watch the cars warp themselves into a wedge of cheese and then limp off down the road like the bastard offspring of a Volvo and a Smart car...

Quote from nihil :

Really? IMHO its the damage model that encourages wrecking - its great fun to watch the cars warp themselves into a wedge of cheese and then limp off down the road like the bastard offspring of a Volvo and a Smart car...

Not when your in the front being competitive. A tap against the wall could end your race.

I don't think anything really encourages wreckers - if they want to trash people, there's nothing you can do or say to stop them.

The bodywork damage system is currently flawed, there's no question about that. But I think the basics are right. Like Nard said up there, I think all that's missing is a frame which deforms much less than the body panels themselves but which can snap after excessive damage.
Obviously the car can't get folded inside out if there's a solid frame underneath restricting the panels movement. And even ignoring bits of bodywork falling off, more important than that would be wheels coming off. It's definitely silly having a concertina'd car with wheels which are no longer connected to the car

I'm sure they'll get to it. I think the guys probably know what they're doing

Quote from Dajmin :

The bodywork damage system is currently flawed, there's no question about that.

I prefer to see it as not yet finished rather than flawed.

Quote from al heeley :

I prefer to see it as not yet finished rather than flawed.

Excuse me, but is that a Tervueren? He looks young - ours is seven.