I'm with Ian to be honest, especially in the road cars. I don't need to feel my gearlever in real life to know what gear in (I went to school, so am blessed with short term memory greater than 15 nanoseconds). It'd look more real, and more professional without it.
Then I got a G25, and I still don't want it, whether I'm using paddles, sequential or h-shift mode. The only car that should have an indicator is the Sauber, and only if it had one in real life.
So what do you think the reason for having it in a racing car IRL is then? for laughs? it's there for a reason...
I can give you some personal examples. when i used to race the Alfa, it had a sequential gearbox and a gear indicator. i found many times you would head into a 4th gear corner there would be a shunt (or something) ahead so your doing 100MPH trying to avoid an accident while knocking down gears to slow down... how do you know what gear your in when you come out the far side? It's written infront of you.
Another example: you can be changing down from 6th to 2nd into a hairpin, you make 4 gear changes in about 3 - 4 seconds, sometimes if you dont push the lever hard enough it wont change down and you can very easily get mixed up in the heat of a battle, especially if someone is bumping you as well!
The above examples are because you use a sequential gearbox, nothing to do with it being a road car or race car. My DFP makes all the cars in LFS have sequential gearboxes as far as i'm concerned, so i do find the indicator handy, sometimes.
Now to your point that only the Sauber should have a gear selector...
The FOX is basically a Formula Renault or F3 whatever way you want to look at it so it should have one as these cars have them in real life.
The F08 is a F3000 car and they have them IRL too.
All the GTR cars would have them as well, just like they do in real life.
Also i was in a Golf GTi DSG the other day, which has paddles... guess what... it's a road car with a gear indicator!
my road car also has a semi-automatic mode and it has a gear indicator.
As i said above as far as i'm concerned all the cars in LFS are sequential, it may not actually be the case but thats the way the majority of people drive.
It's fine to add an option to turn it off if you dont want to use it but i do, and i'm sure others do too.
What about the Gear Change Indicator, the small Red light. The Gear Change light should only be in cars that have them like Formula cars or GTR cars (not sure about GTR tho), not in Road cars.
My mate's Scooby has a shift light (actually adjustable IIRC). Came as standard on his 2000 (I think) model.. but most of the street cars in LFS I doubt would have them, which again works for me as I have ears
It's the same as removing the presently unrealistic tire sound volume boost.
The cars in the sim need to feel and be driven like they would in reality. In reality you don't have eyes with a total resolution of <5Mpixels and refresh rate of <80fps, nor do you not have a sense of touch (seat of the pants), nor disabled inner-ear plumbing...
So you will always have to make compromises for those limitations of the computer interface or whatever medium you're playing the simulation through.
If I was taking my UF1 to the track daily, for a few hours at a time, I'd have without a doubt paid myself something like F9-type tire telemetry, and digital speedo, or whatever else instrumentation the track allowed, as I'd've seen fit.
Another example: the gear shift light.. it's odd, because you would naturally shift by ear and feel, in reality. But you wouldn't brake the laws of reality by installing one such shift light, so why not?
My point is, even though I drive shift-f, and would use an analog tach myself, there's nothing "unrealistic" about real instrument mods in real cars' cockpits.
The borderline is when it undoubtedly detracts from the character of the car. Like live brake bias or ARB adjustments on the UF1.
p.s. I think it would be very cool if we could manually set the tach's orientation, so that the redline is at 1 o'clock.
I feel it's just foolish to argue about something like this. These threads come up all the time and people argue to the death about "realism" and such. If the topic of this post is the way it should be, then we all should be forced to race with wrap around screen, 900 degree wheels (adjusted to correct rotation), clutch, the correct shifter per car, proper sound volume for all sounds, a force dynamics motion platform because that's the only way to simulate the g-forces, etc, etc. If you are going to say we absolutely need to eliminate something as basic and simple as a gear indicator because it is so unbelievably unrealistic to have it, then we must go all the way. Unless you are sitting on a $30,000 (or was it $15k, can't remember) motion platform with complete 360 degree view and all the proper controls for realism, then you just shouldn't be racing LFS. After all, if you want arcade stuff like sitting in an office chair at a computer desk, only a 17-20 inch view, sequential shifters when the car would have a gated shift, and only 240 degree steering when the cars would have more, then you should be playing arcade like NFS.
I find it very hard to hear which gear is in in some cars. So that's means that in some cars I need it. On some cars you have gear indicators in real life, in most you don't. Not sure about the RA for example. And if the FZ50 has paddles (in real life ) it should have them in LFS. Don't all cars that have paddles shifters have gear indicators? As for race cars to have it, defenately for the reasons stated above.
Imho, having an option for various things to turn on/off is a bit unrealistic. As I see it, it is all about would the car have it in real life. If the gear indicator needs to be optional; to be able to turn it on/off, it would be better to classify it as a driving aid as it is something that normally wouldn't be there (depending on the car).
ZOMG modification and customization to a user's preference, kill it now!!!
really, I'd rather have the option to turn these things on and off, and still have a nicely laid out dash than have them ripped out and have to make the same things in outguage. Like it was said before, it would really accomplish nothing.
Also it is note worthy that some manufacturers offer various option packages for their cars. The mercury cougar i had was an 87 model, with the full digital dash package installed. The blue max type cougar for that year is quite rare these days and some might not have even heard of it, but that doesnt mean that if there was an 87 cougar in LFS i shoul dhave to drive with the analogue guages, just because the elitists have something to gripe about.
Gear indicators can be bought and installed even for h-pattern cars. Shft lights, the same. some times even in the same package. Digital Speeo, very very realistic and you can buy one at your local performance center (relatively cheaply i might add).
The Gear indicator is usefull. Especially when new players try the game.
I think you are too self centered ian.H
Most people here appreciate the gear indicator, and considder it
not to be a girly aid, but a practical one.
Honestly, this whole thread has been a wasted effort.
On off feature might be nice ... though ....
That way, ian.H can use his super hearing and perfect memory
to drive the way he wants. 110% Focus!!
For the rest of us who don't care about being l33t, we can leave it on,
and have the comfort of checking every now and then.
You must have been driving all the wrong road cars ian.H
most __new__ cars have gear indicators in the dash.
Especially the ones with Automatic or Paddle gears.
All new Audi and VW with Auto gear or Flappy Paddles, dsg models have it.
All new Mercedes models with auto, semi auto, or paddle gears have it.
I can even remember my moms old Mercedes A160 from 1999, that had it too.
You'll even find it on certain Fords.... if you get into a shitty Daihatsu with automatic, you can bet yourself it has indicators in the dash.
Ferraris have Gear Indicators ... and why ? Because it's needed when driving sequensial, and it's comfortable when using automatic.
If we were to remove everything we don't need, then what would we have in the end ?
) it should have them in LFS. Don't all cars that have paddles shifters have gear indicators? As for race cars to have it, defenately for the reasons stated above.