To an exstent that is true many mods use the default tires but the idea is that people create there own tyres, the only problem with that is, that getting the real life data for many tyres is hard if not impossible
To an exstent that is true many mods use the default tires but the idea is that people create there own tyres, the only problem with that is, that getting the real life data for many tyres is hard if not impossible
I've got rFactor on my computer. With most of the decent mods and tracks (not all that many).
My two cents is:
rFactor needs (for various reasons) the infinite supply of content to keep me anywhere near interested, whilst LFS (for various reasons) keeps me interested and it doesn't need anything "extra" to do that.
Then again, I would never expect a game which has community mods to fall back on to have anywhere near the high overall standards of a game which is judged ENTIRELY on the standard of what you get when you download it.
My two cents is:
rFactor needs (for various reasons) the infinite supply of content to keep me anywhere near interested, whilst LFS (for various reasons) keeps me interested and it doesn't need anything "extra" to do that.
Then again, I would never expect a game which has community mods to fall back on to have anywhere near the high overall standards of a game which is judged ENTIRELY on the standard of what you get when you download it.
Yeah I was refering to GTR2, which had the high grip levels because people found the realistic levels in GTR1 to hard to cope with.
you probably had the ffb set to positive values while using a logitech wheel ... why they didnt invert the ffb behaviour within the exe to make the most popular brand of ffb wheel work properly out of the boy is beyond me
but either way to make logitech wheels work in rf you need to use negative ffb strength values
and the possibility to race online tbh which renders s1 licenses rather useless
by s2 allready
you seem to love the gamethe problem with this is that rf modders dont seem to bother trying to get good data for their mods which is very obvious if you look at the tyre files
we definately strongly dissagree on that one
first of all i dont think lfs tries to mimick real life physics ... on the contrary rf does have a go down the mimikry road whereas lfs always felt like it bases almost all it does on fomulas taken directly out of a physics handbook which automatically leads to the cars behaving correctly
and on modding ... id personally like to go bonkers with the model if modding ever becomes an option in lfs
but id like for scawen to release a little handbook on real life physics and which constraints you should use for lfs mods so you wont operate it out of its boundaries
The only thing seriously wrong with rFactor (or ISI sims for that matter) is that they don't trust their simulation when it comes to force feedback, as well as believing in the old myth of a tyre losing a lot of grip once over the optimum slip angle.
Sure, LFS isn't spot-on regarding tyre behaviour either, but at least it HAS something that believably resembles a tyre. While we are already concentrating on the effects of surface tyre temperature or the different behaviour caused by the shape (or lack) of tyre tread, anything ISI (at least in its default form) still struggles with the basics. Granted, you can apparently fix a lot of the shortcomings by ini tweaking and messing with slip curves, but as long as the creators of the mod base think drifting needs a mix of inhumane skill, a highly specialised setup, black magic and a miracle, the vast majority the mods based on it will simply suck physics wise.
Considering that - at least in my eyes - a sim stands and falls with its physics and FF, no amount of modding or graphics effects or "real" cars or "real" tracks are ever going to make rFactor worth looking at, as long as it keeps its crappy default behaviour.
:twocents:
Sure, LFS isn't spot-on regarding tyre behaviour either, but at least it HAS something that believably resembles a tyre. While we are already concentrating on the effects of surface tyre temperature or the different behaviour caused by the shape (or lack) of tyre tread, anything ISI (at least in its default form) still struggles with the basics. Granted, you can apparently fix a lot of the shortcomings by ini tweaking and messing with slip curves, but as long as the creators of the mod base think drifting needs a mix of inhumane skill, a highly specialised setup, black magic and a miracle, the vast majority the mods based on it will simply suck physics wise.
Considering that - at least in my eyes - a sim stands and falls with its physics and FF, no amount of modding or graphics effects or "real" cars or "real" tracks are ever going to make rFactor worth looking at, as long as it keeps its crappy default behaviour.
:twocents:
Few per cent of people at most. It has only a marginal impact on the development of LFS.
That alone is not enough, need to do more, but there are people that are trying to create universal tires for all to use, so something will be done to this issue, just takes bit time.
Strongly disagree here, LFS does somethings dynamically (ie tires) the rest I think atm is mostly done on spreadsheet style data, I'm sure if you wanted to you could turn LFS into a completely undrivable useless unrealistic sim, just look at the more extreme tweak/mechanik side effects. LFS certainly does not simulate or even artificially compensate for the strength of materials atm, that's why we have open topped Minis and road cars that handle like you'd expect a Group N car with a rollcage conveniently welded to the suspension pick ups.
Well you've bought two licenses for starters
(at least I think he meant license stages)Well, yes.. that being the point. Tweak isn't a mod for LFS in the sense that rF mods are mods for rF. Try going online with Tweak to see that point laboured, or upoad a hotlap created within spitting distance of Tweak to be sure.
LFS is still mid-dev but it's clear that the physical integrity of the environment is a very HIGH priority for the LFS devs, while the rF dev cycle is now over without the environment ever being made safe or consistent.. or realistic.
btw I was talking about building cars in a hypothetical final, moddable LFS. Not where we are in the cycle now.
Hmm, could be that he meant it that way, yes... If he meant current rF is "stage1" and costs about as much as LFS S2, then how much the final product will cost?
Completely same thing than someone here saying that "rFactor is only a mod for GTR" or something like that... it's rFactor forum, not the General Racing Sim Debait forum. Even that I'm LFS fan(boyish) too I must say that LFS community is probably the most two-faced community of all racing sim communities.
Who is saying that? rFactor is made by ISI, GTR2 is made by SimBin...
illepallthat much rather shows that lfs does quite a few things with formulas rather than with tables
every formula especially has a range of valid inputs if you dont keep within those it will go haywire
talbes however will just max or min out with no side effects
true but then again i dont know of any sim other than ror that even attempts to simulate body flex
GTR 1 and 2 / GTL are using ISI's Core 1.0 Physic's Engine. Rfactor is a 2.0 version of the ISI engine which is abit different.
But GTR 1/2 and GTL are just using there Core engine. They have there own custom things in there that Rfactor can not do. Live track system for one for the Simbin products.
When they purchase the Code from ISI there is more then just a mod created. I guess that would make anything using the Quake engine a mod from there physics when they sell it. They purchase the code so they can modify it as they need it.
But GTR 1/2 and GTL are just using there Core engine. They have there own custom things in there that Rfactor can not do. Live track system for one for the Simbin products.
When they purchase the Code from ISI there is more then just a mod created. I guess that would make anything using the Quake engine a mod from there physics when they sell it. They purchase the code so they can modify it as they need it.
Hmmm... I don't think you can be talking about LFS here, surely. Everything I know about LFS is the opposite to your statement. Tyres are just the tip of the iceberg. Watch some LFS replays in slo-mo. Definitely NOT reading data from tables. Watch a replay from something else (other than RBR, which I also believe in), and I don't think you can truly maintain this stance. Just my 2p.
I second SamH in this instance. What attracted me to LFS was his natural feeling, both when spectating and driving. I don't claim I'm an expert in racing or cars, by the way, so it's just a humble opinion. Or better, the feeling I get (when I look to the West 
).
).The physics are identical (you can copy them across to rF) and AFAIK that's what matters.
I think nothing truly dynamic happens in the engine department atm, I think a lot of what happens is either pre-calculated or never changes short of the odd bit of engine damage which means the end result is just as bad as the ISI system, of course if LFS is calculating the same thing all the time then it would certainly show more potential than using predefined values. Currently I think all the gearbox modeling is either done on spreadsheet style inputs and a lot isn't modeled yet.
I do think that there are many things where there is just no use to waste cpu power for calculating, but you can get same effect with tables, RBR for example was based very much to tables, for example everything that had to something with engine was in tables, that big, accurate and heavy simulation was done before packing game and game shipped with tables.
Now with tables we can have enough or too little resolution, often what we see is too little, but getting enough resolution is heavy, solution is interpolating with simple and light piece of code.
LFS would run perhaps 1fps with most powerful computer there is, if it would simulate everything accurately, so either simulations are very very simple or it uses tables, I think that there are some tables and very simple simulation interpolating values, but I think often wrong
Umm.. nK PRO? Granted, it'll probably lag out and crash before you get to see it, but it does have body flex.
Fair enough.. and actually I have found one extremely OTT fanboi for rF.. that'd be Mr Ferrari27.. it's actually really amusing to see him reply to just about _every_ negative post batting so profusely for ISI, it's pitiful
I hope all goes well with the Clio.. looks like a pretty good start and if done right, will produce some great close racing
Regards,
Ian
yeah, its actually hilarious reading his posts. he once point blank refused that rfactor was laggy occasionally (the cars driving off then teleporting back). everybody ever playing rfactor online has seen it, and he refused point blank to admit it exists, and then continued to say that LFS cars lagged all over the place.
He once said though that he had played lfs for a very short amount of time, so what gives him a right to argue that lfs is shit is beyond me.
whats really sad about rfactor is the amount of potential it has. i love driving a f1 car around montreal, then swapping to a clio and running it round the nurburgring. I for one dont really care if suspension reacts differently than real life. as ive never driven a formula 1 car at 200mph round the karussel, i dont know how it should feel, and to me it feels pretty ****ing good in rfactor. But its ruined by all the half assed mods, and the compatibility issues online. Plus, all the fanboys that refuse to believe that it isnt the best sim ever made, ever, put me off a bit.
lol.. I've seen it a couple of times (was on an older version) but I very rarely drove online with rF.
I do think the netcode is very good, I'd stick my neck out and say that rF and LFS are on par with each other in that respect (especially considering that you can have 40+ car grids as smooth as 3 car grids in rF which we haven't been able to test in LFS (yet?)) but I have seen where cars have pretty much stopped, then dragged themselves to the new position and continued.. quite scary when it happens through the esses round the back of Mills Long
At the end of the day, both have their merits and problems, my gripe is now that it was posted publicly that the AI was being worked hard on by Mike and whoever else helps with it, but from the reactions I see, it's no better than before the patch with no more free updates to fix it (don't get me wrong, just as I paid for S1 and S2, I'm not against paying for newer versions, but I won't pay for bug fixes) means offline play (which is all I do with rF) is all but useless.
We live and learn... no rF2 for me. Once bitten..................
Regards,
Ian
I do think the netcode is very good, I'd stick my neck out and say that rF and LFS are on par with each other in that respect (especially considering that you can have 40+ car grids as smooth as 3 car grids in rF which we haven't been able to test in LFS (yet?)) but I have seen where cars have pretty much stopped, then dragged themselves to the new position and continued.. quite scary when it happens through the esses round the back of Mills Long
At the end of the day, both have their merits and problems, my gripe is now that it was posted publicly that the AI was being worked hard on by Mike and whoever else helps with it, but from the reactions I see, it's no better than before the patch with no more free updates to fix it (don't get me wrong, just as I paid for S1 and S2, I'm not against paying for newer versions, but I won't pay for bug fixes) means offline play (which is all I do with rF) is all but useless.
We live and learn... no rF2 for me. Once bitten..................
Regards,
Ian
Warping cars is much more about the connection stability of individual users and the location of the game host - and I'm sure it can happen in rF just as it can in LFS. The point being.. there's no point in DENYING that it ever happens
Fortunately, I can't say I've ever seen anyone try to claim that warping in LFS doesn't happen. I'd feel a smidge bad having a go at someone for his blind LFS faith. Reality has to step in somewhere tho, even for the most devoted fanboys
Fortunately, I can't say I've ever seen anyone try to claim that warping in LFS doesn't happen. I'd feel a smidge bad having a go at someone for his blind LFS faith. Reality has to step in somewhere tho, even for the most devoted fanboys
In my view rFactor is much more alive then LFS just because of how moddable rFactor is and the large mod community rFactor has. Ok, surely much of the tracks and cars are fastmade converts from earlier ISI games, but there is some really great tracks and cars too and more is coming.
I havent touched LFS for over a year now because there is no new content, just a few minor updates that doesnt do much. It`s still in alpha mode and still no tools for modders. So for me LFS is pretty much dead, i dont want to rerun the same old fantasy tracks that i hardly like anyway.
I havent touched LFS for over a year now because there is no new content, just a few minor updates that doesnt do much. It`s still in alpha mode and still no tools for modders. So for me LFS is pretty much dead, i dont want to rerun the same old fantasy tracks that i hardly like anyway.
True.. that was pretty much why I bought it. My curiosity was sparked when I played F1C for a bit just before rF was released and pretty much saw rF as an "unlimited" platform (of course there's limitations, but meaning if I learnt how to model and sort some kind of physics out for a car and learnt how to build a track, the possibilities for me (even just for personal use) were pretty endless.
I didn't grab many tracks or mods tbh for the reason you mention, most were half-cocked conversions from games years ago. I'm a quality over quantity man personally. The LFS cars I can take from my brazil scenes and have drivable (with fake (for the specific car) / borrowed physics) within 20 mins.. doesn't make for a good mod though. The XRT I did off and on (ok, plenty of off) I'd spent tweaking for a year. Maybe that's a little too long, heh.. but it was a great car to drive IMO.
One mod that will be worth checking out will be the '67 GP mod that Bob and a few others are working on at Team Players. His attention to detail is great IMO and I love classic cars. Unfortunately my HDD crashed before I had a chance to test the beta version he sent me but with the reference material that's been submitted by GPL lovers and the research being done, it should be a top mod.. likewise VLM's LeMans. Monsum (their track modeler) gave me some great tips and the screenshots of their track look outstanding
Fanbois bug me whatever they're a fanatic about.. there's just no need for it IMO.. it's not like they had any input in any of it, so why be so protective over things? It's a mentality I fail to be able to grasp (thankfully?).
Also agree with Sam.. especially if something is blatant, denying it just makes you look a fool.. whatever it is
I don't like windoze but very much like Unix. It's years better than windoze, but it don't make it perfect.
Regards,
Ian
Development of rFactor is Over
(90 posts, started )
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