Hi,
Why is locked diff faster and better in entry than clutch pack? It is a LFS physical bug or what?
I think in older patches worked better.

EDIT: Mainly on FWD cars, on RWD works good.

thx for answers.

Locked diff gives you more equal power to the wheel, at least thats what i know, and clutched, gives more power the the wheel with the most grip.
so in a straight line the Locked diff gives you more power, but when cornering the clutch packed is best, unless you want to drift or something
if im wrong please correct me.

Quote from Alien_CZ :

Hi,
Why is locked diff faster and better in entry than clutch pack? It is a LFS physical bug or what?
I think in older patches worked better.

EDIT: Mainly on FWD cars, on RWD works good.

thx for answers.

The diffs in lfs aren't simulated correctly and the bug in lfs makes lcoked diffs quicker.

My old man used to race a mini at several speedways (often on hard dry clay with rubber laid down so not unlike asphalt), and used to win regularly against much more powerful cars.

He told me that the modifications he had done were: weld the diff (so locked diff) rear antisway bar and increased camber by modifying the suspension. So somewhat similar to the fast setups in LFS

He used to win simply because he was able to keep the power down longer and get on it earlier than his RWD competitors, again alot like LFS is now In more wet conditions on the track the RWD cars gave him alot tougher competition but on a drying track he was unstopable even with what seemed like large unfair handicaps

Quote from mortenmorfar :

Locked diff gives you more equal power to the wheel, at least thats what i know, and clutched, gives more power the the wheel with the most grip.
so in a straight line the Locked diff gives you more power, but when cornering the clutch packed is best, unless you want to drift or something
if im wrong please correct me.

Locked diff does mean that both wheels get the full power available but has the disadvantage of both wheels always having the same speed in a turn, cutchpack diff allows a large percentage of locking but still allows the wheels to spin at different speeds (depending on how it is set) an additional advantage of a clutch pack diff is you can set seperately how much locking you have under braking, acceleration and coasting.

The main problem in LFS with the clutch pack seems to be the lack of preload and the abilitly to adjust it.

Even with perfect diff modelling I'm not convinced that it would be faster than a locked diff in a FWD car when driving at the limit of traction, simply because it is more prdictable and therefore you can be more consitent

Quote from mortenmorfar :

... gives more power the the wheel with the most grip.

That should be 'gives more power to the wheel with less grip. Torsen and Quaife differentials are those what gives more power to tire that has more grip.

And yes, there is no adjustable preload in LFS currently wich is important with clutch pack diff, I think that it is not locked any time at all in LFS, but always having slip going on as much as % is set, but I'm not sure, it can be that there is predefined preload, rather difficult to test in game.

Locker diff would be rather interesting to have too, damn that thing is nasty if not used to it, that is on/off type and it really locks immediately, nice for drifting, annoying when parking.

Locked diffs seem to be faster round corners than anything else in LFS - stamp on the power as you enter the corner and the car rotates as if its stuck on a pin.

Takes some getting used to though - I'm still in the process of sorting out set ups in LFS and was trying a locked diff at Kyoto National last night. I'm still finding too much rotation in the car on powering out of the corner, but once I get used to it, I'm pretty sure you're right - it'll be much faster than the clutch pack I'm using now.

I generally find clutch packs best in rwd's, with power side locking from 20-50% in high power cars and more in the low power things. Brake side locking depends on the track, anywhere from 40-80% usually.
Locked difs require too much compromise in the set imho. They understeer on entry at low speed and oversteer at high speed - generally the opposite of what I'd want. I see no improvement in corner exit speed with a locker - you have to reduce throttle instead of keeping it open and bleeding off any excess power through the inside wheel.

Even in the fwd's I've been moving to clutch pack lately - I find a locker provides too much variation in turning between power off and power on. Power off and they understeer like mad, power on and they oversteer like mad. Pretty much the opposite of 'normal' fwd behaviour. 80% power side on the clutch pack means I can pump the rear tyres up, set the suspension and steering up so I have fast, controllable turn in without throttle, and getting on the throttle just tightens the line a little bit, rather than madly wagging the tail as with a locker.

The ultimate diff would be an active diff or E-diff (such as Ferrari's version), but that's another story.

Locked diffs are currently fastest in LFS because of the loads on the driveshafts are currently not simulated, IRL they'd snap on a powerful car with grip and because of incomplete LSD modeling.

FWD cars with grippy tires on tarmac are a complete no no, though as was said earlier on clay with crap tires in a mini they may work. Locked diffs can be used in RWD cars on tarmac but for various reasons they are only chosen in cars with rock hard tires and low power (Legend cars) or for crap/dirty tarmac (stock cars) the only driver I'm aware of any merit to chose locked diffs was Mark Donohue.

Personly i find near 0 use for locked or open diffs, either visc or lsd are the way to go although i only driver BF1/FOX/FV8 ...

to answer your question yes the the locked diff is better on breaking and entry becasue the drive wheels must rotate at the same speed so the car breaks better nad is generaly more stable on entry ats after you will get problems like said above in power out and nuetrel roll...

Quote from greygoose0076 :

i generally only use the locked diff option, but have noticed that the "Locked Diff" dosent really mean locked.
sometimes when braking, one of the rear wheels will lock up, and the other one wont. or in a fwd car one front wheel will lock up but the other one wont.

wtf man.

how much torque is "locked" anyway.

Umm, there are other factors that affect the lock up of tires, you know?

the point he was making was that if the diff is locked then both driven wheels must always rotate, or not, at the same speed as effectivley there is no diff present. if you think of the rear axle on say the XRT as being solid with no diff, then it becomes obvious that each wheel must always rotate at same speed. a low tech example would be on a scalextric car, if you pick one up and hold the rear tyres you cannot turn one without turning the other and if you hold one still the other will not turn (unless they have diffs fitted these days ? or the tyres slip on the wheels)

Quote from tinvek :

the point he was making was that if the diff is locked then both driven wheels must always rotate, or not, at the same speed as effectivley there is no diff present. if you think of the rear axle on say the XRT as being solid with no diff, then it becomes obvious that each wheel must always rotate at same speed. a low tech example would be on a scalextric car, if you pick one up and hold the rear tyres you cannot turn one without turning the other and if you hold one still the other will not turn (unless they have diffs fitted these days ? or the tyres slip on the wheels)

Of course, stupid me :doh: One should never work and post at same time..

Quote from greygoose0076 :

i generally only use the locked diff option, but have noticed that the "Locked Diff" dosent really mean locked.
sometimes when braking, one of the rear wheels will lock up, and the other one wont. or in a fwd car one front wheel will lock up but the other one wont.

wtf man.

how much torque is "locked" anyway.

err, got a replay? 'Locked' isn't torque dependent, it's locked. If LFS behaved as you described it would be rather broken...

Locked of course means the wheels always spin the same speed. Take for example the MRT. Imagine the axle just had a sprocket on it and no differential. That's a locked diff.

Quote from greygoose0076 :

yeah, but i tend to use locked diff for the majority of my racing, and a lot of the time, one of the rear wheels will lock up and the other one wont.

Impossible. Can you prove it with a replay please?

Quote from greygoose0076 :

either that or one of the front wheels locks up on a 4wd car.

theoretically, or in your LFS version? if so, show us a replay of the 4wd locking up as welll...

Single-player replays can be saved by just hitting Replay in the Esc menu, or the 1 key (I think). For multi-player replays, hit 2.

Maybe he's using soft suspension and one tyre blocks and the other dont because the other is in air not touching the track
(of course the other blocks too, but dont leave skidmarks because it isnt touching the tarmac)

Quote from greygoose0076 :

either that or one of the front wheels locks up on a 4wd car.

Since when did the demo include 4wd cars?

:bananadea

Quote from greygoose0076 :

well when i got another version all the sudden i had all the cars
.
i started off with some version, i think p, then i got v, then i went to p for mechaniK and got all the cars somehow, now i'm at q for Tweak. i didnt really mean to somehow beat the system, but it happened i guess...

thats why i said i have p sortof.

The only way you can "get all the cars somehow" without paying is if you're looking for a way around the system. The flaming BANana is an indication that you should be banned for that.

Quote from greygoose0076 :

also, banning people for not appearing to be what they are is messed up.
whats to stop somebody from joining the forum on a computer that doesnt have LFS because their personal machine running LFS is internet challenged. then it would appear that they were demo users even if they had a liscense...
just a flaw in the system if you ask me.

If you buy S2, your forum account is automatically updated to reflect this. Unlocking does not affect your forum status. It's the act of paying that does.

I've also heard that the cracked versions have a nice little surprise (virus). Have fun with that.