Full realistic damage is a great goal. But on a related note ... Is there any way for server admins to disable damage in S2? Most of the time it is a good thing but there are scenarios where I would like to be able to run races with it turned off.

Is there a simple on/off option that I have just not found in S2?

Adrian

no, and i will say on behalf of the community that majority voted no (and i also believe the devs also said no on request to make a button) it just... wouldn't seem right, LFS is meant to be more global in the sense that everyone is "treated" the same way, rather than getting unrealistic options

The damage system is a place holder feature. Suspension damage was included in S2 to help limit wall riding in South City. The devs felt that having the suspension become damaged without some visual body damage was just not working so they put the start of the damage model in place. The current system was never intended to be a final feature. As S2 is about the cars I imagin that before S2 is considered Final we will see a more fully realised damage model along with other improvements to the cars them selves and the physics surounding them.

Being able to turn off the damage will never happen, just as turnin goff fuel use and tire wear will never happen. Simulator = Simulation of Reality, you can't turn off damage in the real world. Some consessions are sill made though as in the restarts, reset, you don't die in a crash etc...

Quote from Gimpster :

Being able to turn off the damage will never happen, just as turnin goff fuel use and tire wear will never happen. Simulator = Simulation of Reality, you can't turn off damage in the real world. Some consessions are sill made though as in the restarts, reset, you don't die in a crash etc...

'Never' is a sweeping statement. You will find few more commited to purity of simulation than me. But one of the benefits of a simulator over reality is the ability to do things that the real world does not allow ... as and when it suits your purpose. Not dying when you crash is a good example. Another example is that commercial flight simulators allow pilots to magically appear from nowhere on the final approach to an airport rather than having to fly to the approach point first. This is useful and I would argue that the ability to have a server option to disable some or all aspects of damage in LFS will be of occasional use too.

Adrian

Quote from apthomson :

'Never' is a sweeping statement.

You can be sure that the word "never" is very appropriate in this case. What would be the benefit of turning off damage? Inviting wreckers? I dont see why anyone would want to do this.

Turning off dmagage and car clipping would be an awesome way to stop wreckers. It would also ruin the racing, but could be good for noobs.

It wouldn't be good for noobs, as they'd never learn the fact that contact is bad. Make them crash and realise that doing so isn't going to make them win, and they'll soon learn to drive.

I hate pandering to the inabilities of people - want to drive, learn to frikken drive!

I used the term "Never" because the Devs have stated in the past that the ability to disable Damage, Tire Wear, Fuel Use and other similar features would "Never" be included in LFS. They have no plans to include the option and its thrie decision.

I have heard both arguments time and time again and I will be the first to admit that I learn far faster when forced to drive without diving assists and reality limiting features. Back with F1 2k2 my friends and I were all running about the same skill level, I was a little slower though and not as proficent. So I made the choice to disable all the driving aids and in a matter of two weeks I was out driving then every race.

You may think that driving aids and the ability to disable damage, etc. will alows new members of the comunity to ease in to LFS but the hard cold fact is you learn far faster with all the reality in place.

Quote from Gimpster :

I used the term "Never" because the Devs have stated in the past that the ability to disable Damage, Tire Wear, Fuel Use and other similar features would "Never" be included in LFS. They have no plans to include the option and its thrie decision.

I have heard both arguments time and time again and I will be the first to admit that I learn far faster when forced to drive without diving assists and reality limiting features. Back with F1 2k2 my friends and I were all running about the same skill level, I was a little slower though and not as proficent. So I made the choice to disable all the driving aids and in a matter of two weeks I was out driving then every race.

You may think that driving aids and the ability to disable damage, etc. will alows new members of the comunity to ease in to LFS but the hard cold fact is you learn far faster with all the reality in place.

And they will drive better for it =)

One of the biggest reasons I am against having a HC mode (including all those controller requiremements, special damage modes and advanced other event related options) is the way I see it LFS should always offer the most usable option as a default while offering the more advanced options as additional options. When looking at damage, it should not be whether damage is on or off. Not whether if it is reduced to some odd number or some parts of it left out. What it imho should be is options whether to carry damage to next race, for example. Same with tires. No option should not be given to disable tire heating/flat spotting. The option should be to force drivers/teams to use same tires in more than one event, or limit tire choise to one tire type etc..

Creating a HC mode with artificial limits (real time repair times, more advanced damage, more advanced control support) will only create barriers between people and make it a lot harder to move from non-HC servers to HC servers. And it would be dowbright arcade mode to have the interesting realism stuff out by choise. I would simply ditch the whole HC way of thinking and instead give the user the options for different approaches for different kind of race starting systems, tire/part choise and controller limitations/requirements etc.

LFS should offer these (I have confidence that LFS will probably offer these at some stage) different options to make the sim more realistic, not just harder or easier. For normal racing on random server, starting from the start grid with gear in neutral is a good realistic and usable basic default option but for leagues (and other seeking for more realistic experience) there should be an option to have the car in pit box the engine turned off. To start the race you need to start the engine and make your way to the starting grid (like in nk pro). And other option would be to have a warmup lap.

These options need some "sub-features". Server admin needs the commands to end/restart the race if someone stalls the car on the grid. Not restarting the whole "event" but just redo the start. Feature to change and check grid positions etc.. Or offer the possibility for these features through insim/outsim etc..

Hyperactive, when did this turn in to a HardCore mode comversation? I am all for leaving in the options that help make up for the interface issues faced by people who do not have the luzury of a G25. I don't have a G25. Think like auto clutch, auto cut/blip, automatic trans, traction control and anti-lock brakes need to be there for people using less then optimal control interfaces.

Thinks like damage, tire wear, fuel usage, etc. having the option to be disabled does not increase the accessability to anyone. The just turn this Sim in to an arcade game with compromised physics/reality. I am all for the options but some just do not have a place here I think. If there is a hardcore mode down the road I am sure the people that have the hardware to race underthose restrictions will do so, the rest of us will still have the option to race on other servers. I would like to see the systems more polished though before I am forced to use then. The simulation of transmission and clutches still needs a lot of work. nKPro has the best trans/clutch simulation I have used.

Quote from Gimpster :

Hyperactive, when did this turn in to a HardCore mode comversation?

I was just trying to make the point that turning off damage, tire wear etc. would have the same effect, but reversed, as with HC mode. Basically you already said it quite well:

"You may think that driving aids and the ability to disable damage, etc. will alows new members of the comunity to ease in to LFS but the hard cold fact is you learn far faster with all the reality in place."

I just added the HC mode in it

My ideal is for the driving sim (LFS or any) to feature as many realistic features as it can. But with the server admin having the options to control which are used on any one occasion.

I have an unusual perspective in that I look at it not only through my own personal eyes but also those of someone running a race centre. The Race Centre is absolutely about striving to offer maximum realism in all areas. But customer flows and requirements mean that tailorability is often required.

Just one example: A group of corporate visitors coming for just 30 minutes driving each. If they lose down force with a damaged front wing every time they have a bump they will not get much opportunity to enjoy the delights of the physics model. Also, if they have to reset to the pits every time someone bumps into them then they may not get a single decent lap.

I'm all for maximum realism especially in car handling. But the options for handling damage need to be thought about a little more. What damage is active? How are you aware of it? What do you have to do to get it mended? How much does that penalise you?

Having no option to disable any damage, ever is restricting and currently counts against LFS when under evaluation for a financially viable race centre.

Like I said, I'm coming from a bit of a different perspective. But hopefullly that goes some way to explaining why I as a fan of ultra realism would argue for options to disable function.

Adrian

i think if we finally got a damage model that affects aerodynamics, lot of drivers have to change their driving style