Here is where I think the opposite. Once you are able to come close to WR times, you are already good at racing, can race any line around the track, know the optimum line, and optimum braking points. This is where tweaks in the setup mean something and where the 0.1 second improvements from those tweaks pay off.
Here is where I think the opposite. Once you are able to come close to WR times, you are already good at racing, can race any line around the track, know the optimum line, and optimum braking points. This is where tweaks in the setup mean something and where the 0.1 second improvements from those tweaks pay off.
That's obvious really, if your skill is excellent then that is going to be losing you very little time compared to the WR (assuming WR is perfect), setups won't evolve with you unless you make them. 
So they're bound to be the weak point when you're at that sort of pace.
So they're bound to be the weak point when you're at that sort of pace.You miss the point, if someone can't get close to the WR time, with the same WR set, then it's not the set, it's the racer
Still could be the set too - part of the job of a setup is to get the car in the optimum condition for the lap, but part of it is to allow the driver to get the most out of the car (to make it suit a driving style). Just because you are using a WR set doesn't mean you can get the most out of the car as the WR holder.
But if you can't get within a percent or two of WR with the WR setup then it's 100% driver.
But if you can't get within a percent or two of WR with the WR setup then it's 100% driver.
There is no definative percentage of skill and set up.
An example
WR holder racing with race s set ups and a complete newbie on the WR set up. Now i would bet that the WR holder would be faster which would put it at Wr holder 100% skill 0% set up and the newbie at 0% skill and 100% set up. You could draw from this the conclusion that skill has a higher percantage in times than set up.
Personally though i think its completely down to each person individually, set ups may be equal as everyone has WR but then skill levels (and natural ability) defines how fast you go.
An example
WR holder racing with race s set ups and a complete newbie on the WR set up. Now i would bet that the WR holder would be faster which would put it at Wr holder 100% skill 0% set up and the newbie at 0% skill and 100% set up. You could draw from this the conclusion that skill has a higher percantage in times than set up.
Personally though i think its completely down to each person individually, set ups may be equal as everyone has WR but then skill levels (and natural ability) defines how fast you go.
Sorry, I didn't miss the point, you just missed the typing, hehehee
."And if you can get within 101% of the WR with the WR set then its you thats the defining factor, not the set
"Change that to "you can't" and I'll definitely agree, as Tristan has stated the same.
Just a little confusion there
.As proof, I believe I am within 1% of the WR at Westhill in the FZR. I can't find anywhere that I may drastically improve my driving for better time (maybe the final corner), but with 1 click tweaks in the set, I'm able to shave tenths off my time as I perfect it to fit precisely how I want it to drive the track. Yet, even after 1700 laps at Aston National, I'm not close to WR (1:43.x my time) and I am fully aware of where I need improvement (final chicane framerate is the major one, I'm very slow there).
It's the same as most areas of life 
90% persperation and 10% luck...
A better set to a good driver can mean small incrmental improvements in lap times. But perhaps the more significant factor is a set finely tuned to a particular driver can improve his consistency on a given track/combo more than the increase in lap speed
A good driver is always reaching for more so it's hard to definitively say if a new set itself causes the improvement or that the challenge of learning and adapting to a new set enables you to improve your skill
it's an unrelenting circle 
90% persperation and 10% luck...A better set to a good driver can mean small incrmental improvements in lap times. But perhaps the more significant factor is a set finely tuned to a particular driver can improve his consistency on a given track/combo more than the increase in lap speed
A good driver is always reaching for more so it's hard to definitively say if a new set itself causes the improvement or that the challenge of learning and adapting to a new set enables you to improve your skill
it's an unrelenting circle Thats the other thing, many setups that are fast over 1 lap are totally useless for anything over 10 laps. Often I only tweak setups to improve endurance and consistency, that often means making them more balanced and slightly slower.
Thats why if you look at my qualifying stats they are a bit crap, because I stick to the good old motto 'fast is good, consistent is better'
Thats why if you look at my qualifying stats they are a bit crap, because I stick to the good old motto 'fast is good, consistent is better'
This is why I love LFS! Faster people sharing setups with others to better those who need it. I like the idea of getting whooped up because of talent not because your car is faster or your setup is better. *COUGH* STCC FXO RB4 *COUGHPHOOEY*
Try telling that to bawbag
I think that the worse driver you are the more you'll need to rely on having a good set that lets you concentrate on finding the right line not on keeping the damn thing facing the right way (I consider myself a very bad driver ). Once I've got the hang of a combo I then find that sets make a lot less of a difference.
I don't think you can really compare the importance of sets/skill in this way because you need them both to work together to become quick and one set will not be the quickest for everybody.
). Once I've got the hang of a combo I then find that sets make a lot less of a difference.I don't think you can really compare the importance of sets/skill in this way because you need them both to work together to become quick and one set will not be the quickest for everybody.
My PB using my own modified setup for AS Cadet Rev/XRT was 58.56, got sent a better setup on STCC and got a 58.44 and was consistently faster than before.
Basically at a push I could probably go as fast with my old set, but the one I got sent made it much easier to get good lap times. So sets can make a difference, I would say I am at least 10% better than before using the new set.
Basically at a push I could probably go as fast with my old set, but the one I got sent made it much easier to get good lap times. So sets can make a difference, I would say I am at least 10% better than before using the new set.
I did a little test, which probably says a lot or nothing at all, depending on your point of view. Personnally, I'm not trying to make a statement here, just wanted to find out, how good/bad the race_s-setup might be.
I took the XFG out on bl1 (a combo which I have not driven in a very long time. PB is 1:34.10 but that was in may 2006) and dled Duck's current wr-setup (a setup I'd never used before). I messed around for a few laps and then did 10 consecutive laps. My laptimes kept getting better with the very best being 1:34.40 on lap 7. All the laps afterwards were in the 1:34.xx range.
Then I took the race_s setup, messed around a little and did 15 consecutive laps. The very best was 1:35.79 on lap 9. From lap 5 to lap 15 I managed to get all sort of times from high 1:35s to high 1:37s -- consistency was non-existant.
So, whatever that means.
Note: I never do my own setups, because I have no idea what to do, but I can get within 103% of the wr-time within around 20 laps in the easier cars, which could point to the conclusion that I'm okay at adjusting to setups.
I took the XFG out on bl1 (a combo which I have not driven in a very long time. PB is 1:34.10 but that was in may 2006) and dled Duck's current wr-setup (a setup I'd never used before). I messed around for a few laps and then did 10 consecutive laps. My laptimes kept getting better with the very best being 1:34.40 on lap 7. All the laps afterwards were in the 1:34.xx range.
Then I took the race_s setup, messed around a little and did 15 consecutive laps. The very best was 1:35.79 on lap 9. From lap 5 to lap 15 I managed to get all sort of times from high 1:35s to high 1:37s -- consistency was non-existant.
So, whatever that means
.Note: I never do my own setups, because I have no idea what to do, but I can get within 103% of the wr-time within around 20 laps in the easier cars, which could point to the conclusion that I'm okay at adjusting to setups.
Thats why theres some merit to fixed setup Leagues ,in reality nothing much would change the fast guys will always be fast but who doesnt like an even playing field?
Yes i realise we all have wr sets at our disposal so its sort of even now, but it would be interesting .
Yes i realise we all have wr sets at our disposal so its sort of even now, but it would be interesting .
I don't have much to add except there is a large luck component in hotlapping and a small luck component in long races when doing race pace.
I think a good measure of driver skill is the variance in laptimes over a long race. Someone who puts in very fast times (but not the fastest) that are very consistent is likely a better driver with a worse setup than a driver who does the fastest lap but has very unconsistent laps. To be consistent you need reference points for everything, very similar controller movement, and a good feel for how the car changes as it burns off fuel and wears down tires. Consistency also builds trust from the racers next to you, leading to close and clean racing.
Now too much consistency is also bad because you're not still trying to improve, so you should still be improving your bad corners during a long race. And a consistent driver better be running among the fastest, or they just aren't trying hard enough.
I think a good measure of driver skill is the variance in laptimes over a long race. Someone who puts in very fast times (but not the fastest) that are very consistent is likely a better driver with a worse setup than a driver who does the fastest lap but has very unconsistent laps. To be consistent you need reference points for everything, very similar controller movement, and a good feel for how the car changes as it burns off fuel and wears down tires. Consistency also builds trust from the racers next to you, leading to close and clean racing.
Now too much consistency is also bad because you're not still trying to improve, so you should still be improving your bad corners during a long race. And a consistent driver better be running among the fastest, or they just aren't trying hard enough.
all good points
when i race and regularly find myself2-3 seconds off pace- i know 1 secon or 1.5 seconds is me not knowing the track.
couple that with a bad set...
when some one (lap time leader) lends me his set, with my line I come to 1 second of time...
so what does that say, my sets a crap
and my driving is not too off- just the 1second is the hardest to make up, in real life as well...i get it at times but in a few races forget it
and why do people try to pass IN the chicane at BL or FB?
use your head jerks
illepall
when i race and regularly find myself2-3 seconds off pace- i know 1 secon or 1.5 seconds is me not knowing the track.
couple that with a bad set...
when some one (lap time leader) lends me his set, with my line I come to 1 second of time...
so what does that say, my sets a crap
and my driving is not too off- just the 1second is the hardest to make up, in real life as well...i get it at times but in a few races forget it
and why do people try to pass IN the chicane at BL or FB?
use your head jerks
illepall1
2
Ability(80%) + Setup(20%) = Laptime(?)
(40 posts, started )
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