Slicks or semi-slicks would be most welcome to me for all of the cars. If I was going to race a road car I would never leave home with road normals.

I don't drive any of the road cars in LFS any more, I don't see the point. The race cars give me better racing, more enjoyment and allow me to push harder.
Part of the appeal of LFS is obviously borne by the road cars and so different people get different joy from it. The addition of some sort of race tyre, at least a semi-slick for road cars and especially the LX models, would get me driving them again. But if that never happens I don't mind because there are several other cars to keep me happy. A race version of the LX4 or 6 would be great fun and a challenge I think.

There is a problem concerning the slicks and roadcars. If the slicks were available to the normal cars, no one would use the road tyres anymore. What's the point. Unless as a serverside option. But plain road tyres are little extreme concervative if you ask me.

Quote from Hyperactive :

There is a problem concerning the slicks and roadcars. If the slicks were available to the normal cars, no one would use the road tyres anymore. What's the point. Unless as a serverside option. But plain road tyres are little extreme concervative if you ask me.

That's something a server setting could be able to decide.

I think that road tires only are okay for the bare bones cars such as UF1, XFG and XRG.

RB4, FXO and XRT are also okay on road tires.

But the higher-end road cars such as LX4,LX6,RAC,FZ5 should IMO have a slick option added to them because they are close to being race cars in terms of performance and real-life comparison.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

I still think that if you made it a server option most people would want the slicks (the "easy" tyres), so server admins would enable the slicks, and you'd never see the road tyres again.

If this is what the buyers of LFS S2 want, then why not give it to them? I don't think slicks are "easy" tires, unless the road supers are improperly implemented, or they are deliberatly implemented to be less stable. With slicks, braking distances are shorter, requiring more driver accuracy for braking points.

But having the both tyre types, roadies and race ones, available would mean that we had two cars instead of one. As the tyres change the handling of the car so dramatically, no one would want to use road tires after slicks, because roadies are not so fast, are more unexpectable and generally slide more. Or most...

But I really don't want pure racing slicks to some cars. The cars RacingSimFan listed there with their tyre choices is OK to me, but I don't want pure racing slicks in any other than the actual racing cars the LFS has got (XFR, UFR, GTRs...). But the LX4,LX6,RAC and FZ5 should have some kind of "almost racing tyres" because they are used for racing in LFS and in real life they wouldn't race using normal road tyres. I think in real life racing series the tyres are strctly controlled, and only certain type of tyreset(s) is/are allowed.

But this isn't really going anywhere unless we know what kind of racing and what kind of cars the LFS cars are meant to simulate. If the LX4,LX6,RAC and FZ5 were trying to simulate normal highpowered cars on track the current system with normal road tyres is OK. But if they were trying to simulate racing leagues where these types of cars are used, they fail imho, because of the concervative tyre choices that are currently available.

Just my :twocents:

Quote from Hyperactive :

I have one problem with this roadcar/racecar separation. Let's take the LXs for example. When there is series where these cars are used, they use racing tires (don't they in most cases?). But not all LX type real cars are made for racing, they are just a selfmade or a different type of a car, usually sporty ones. And these of course use road tyres. You can compare them with hotrods, the principles have something common. (flamesuit needed )

So what I'm saying is that some of the roadcars (the LXs, and sportcars in general) get much more track time than the others (GTi, GTT) in real life. Even the GTi are generally present in any trackday events, most of these cars never visit track. And when they get some tracktime, they change slicks or some other racing tyres.

Because we in LFS don't just cruise around and check the chicks, it would be more realistic if the LX4 had some kind of racing tyres. As it seems imho more like a racing car than the LX6. Hell, I would even make the LX4 a true selfmade racecar and leave the LX6 alone. Though the LX4 needed some more power, to be a racecar... But can the LFS handle these cars? Are they in real life so hard to drive? Even the F08 is way easier than the LX6...

Is there a car/s in LFS that compete in same class as the LX4 currently?

You're guessing at information on which you are basing your arguments. If you do a little research you will find that in Caterham classes, the official series' (in the UK this is), only the top cars with 260 bhp run slick/cut-slick tyres. The others all use road-tyres, from 100bhp beginner classes in which the tyres are intended to last all season, through to 200bhp Challenge classes in expensive cars, where the tyre is an all-weather road-tyre designed specifically for the car.

So no, it wouldn't be ANY more realistic for these current LX4 and 6 cars to be running racing-slicks, in fact, there's a great argument for it being less realistic, particularly when the cars are not modelled on racing variants of the 7.

Damn, didn't check that. So the tiresets used in LFS are realistic then and I have nothing to complain Thanks for info.

Quote from sinbad :

Caterham classes - only the top cars with 260 bhp run slick/cut-slick tyres. The others all use road-tyres, from 100bhp beginner classes in which the tyres are intended to last all season, through to 200bhp

This is ignoring the fact that a significant portion of Caterham racing is in 2 liter class, not Caterham specific, and most of these are done with slicks.

Caterham specific classe were changed in 2005 (no superlight R500 classes). I don't see a class for their R500 superlight anymore. As posted most of these classes are oriented towards the lower powered cars, and generally allow the CR500 tires. Note that Caterham describes this tire as an all weather racing tire, not as a road tire.

I suspect that most European club racing by Caterham owners doesn't involve the Catheham UK sponsored racing, more more of the equivalent of the SCCA in the USA.

I can guarantee that all the lap record runs by Caterhams at Nordschleife were done using slicks.

In SCCA racing. almost all classes allow DOT racing tires, or slicks. You can scan this document to see what is allowed:


2005GeneralCompetitionRules.pdf

Even though most racing classes for modified road cars (and even stock road cars) allow at least DOT racing tires, if not slicks, LFS doesn't include either.

Errrm how do we know what kind of tires are modelled in LFS?

Quote from Tweaker :

Errrm how do we know what kind of tires are modelled in LFS?

Road Supers on the LX6 produce a sustained (versus temporary peak) max cornering force of about 1.15g's. In LFS, the road supers are more unstable than the slicks, I assume that this is LFS's idea of how a radial based street tire behaves.

Slicks on the LX6 (via slick mod) prodcuce about 1.4g's of cornering force, a tad less than real racing slicks, but close enough. They are more stable than the road supers, and my assumption is this is LFS's ides of how bias ply racing slicks react.

Those slicks you tested on the LX6 were R2s or R1s?

Quote from Breizh :

Those slicks you tested on the LX6 were R2s or R1s?

I've tried both.

Quote from JeffR :

I've tried both.

And which gave 1.4gs? There should be nearly 0.1g difference between R1s and R2s (from the testing I did a while back).

Quote from JeffR :

This is ignoring the fact that a significant portion of Caterham racing is in 2 liter class, not Caterham specific, and most of these are done with slicks.

Caterham specific classe were changed in 2005 (no superlight R500 classes). I don't see a class for their R500 superlight anymore. As posted most of these classes are oriented towards the lower powered cars, and generally allow the CR500 tires. Note that Caterham describes this tire as an all weather racing tire, not as a road tire.

I suspect that most European club racing by Caterham owners doesn't involve the Catheham UK sponsored racing, more more of the equivalent of the SCCA in the USA.

I can guarantee that all the lap record runs by Caterhams at Nordschleife were done using slicks.

In SCCA racing. almost all classes allow DOT racing tires, or slicks. You can scan this document to see what is allowed:


2005GeneralCompetitionRules.pdf

Even though most racing classes for modified road cars (and even stock road cars) allow at least DOT racing tires, if not slicks, LFS doesn't include either.

OK, fair enough. I've given examples explaining why road-tyres for the LX cars in LFS isn't wrong, you've given examples of what you think should be different and why.
IMO this discussion can go no further without some kind of comment from a developer. (What their intentions are for future, and/or these, LX cars, what made them implement the current LX cars in the way that they are, why the current road-cars are really in a grey area between road-and-race and if there are reasons for that, etc).

PS: (And not that it's in the least bit relevant, but I doubt the Caterham R500 lap of 7:56 at the Nordschleife was done on slicks. I haven't been able to find proof, but production and road car records are done on road-legal tyres, even the new lap-record holding Radical SR8 was using road-tyres, they claimed they could have taken 30 seconds off their 6:55 laptime if they had used slicks).

There's nothing wrong with off-the-shelf street tires on these cars per se, but if the real-life equivalvents of the LX's have an option for slicks or at least race-designed All Weather tires, so should the LX's in the game, IMO.

Did anyone bother reading this?!

"AVON CR500 - The ultimate tyre and the only road legal tyre developed
specifically for the Seven, this is standard fitment to the Superlight range
and the control tyre in the SuperGrad and Roadsport B race series. "

Doesn't sound like the standard 'street' tire to me. It also explains those
racing images with cars wearing AVON CR500s. I spot some YOKOHAMA
A032R also...

"YOKOHAMA A032R - A popular tyre in club racing (...) This 'supersoft'
compound directional tyre is ideal for dry road and track use. Tyre life is
usually about 5k miles."

All info from this link :
http://www.caterham.co.uk/aftersales/upgrades/mar03.htm

The line between slick and street tire is very thin apparently.

Quote from Fonnybone :

Did anyone bother reading this?!

"AVON CR500 - The ultimate tyre and the only road legal tyre developed
specifically for the Seven, this is standard fitment to the Superlight range
and the control tyre in the SuperGrad and Roadsport B race series. "

Taken from this link :
http://www.caterham.co.uk/aftersales/upgrades/mar03.htm

Doesn't sound like the standard 'street' tire to me. It also explains those
racing images with cars obviously wearing AVON CR500s.

Of course it's been read, did you read this thread?
The CR500 is quite a long way from being a slick, and is the standard fitment to the road-cars as well as the cars in those series'. The question is whether the "road-super" tyre is of similar performance, and since cars in LFS running the road-supers develop what is considered to be a very high amount of grip in cornering, I think we can assume that the road-super does compare much more closely with very high performance road tyres, than with budget or "standard street" tyres.

Quote from Fonnybone :

Tyre life is
usually about 5k miles."

The line between slick and street tire is very thin apparently.

No it isn't 032Rs will last a couple of seasons, a set of starter slicks (nothing like as soft as R1 or R2) will just last a season, although they'll be past their best after about 6 heat cycles (3 practices and races). Road tires are not effected by each heat cycle in the same way that racing tires are, not all road legal tires are considered 'road tires' anyway, the MSA publishes a list of accepted road tires in the Blue book.

Although the Avon CR500 is specified for most of the "Caterham" classes run by Catrerham themselves, most club racing classes with tire restrictions use the Avon ACB10, a racing compound tire, or they use slicks if there aren't any tire restrictions. As previously posted, most USA SCCA racing classes, that have tire restrictions, just require a DOT approved tire, which translates into a racing compound tire with treads, like the Avon ACB10. Many classes in the SCCA have no tire restrictions other than the tire must have a proper speed rating, so slicks are used in these classes. Note that the ACB10 is the "Roadsport A control tire".

Regarding the Caterham runs at Nordschleife, I wasn't referring to the offical production car class runs, just the lap record runs made by some club racers. I don't know what official orginization defines what a production class car is, or what such a car can run with on the Nordschleife. My guess is a racing compound tire with treads if there are tire restirctions.

A Caterham "production car" is a tough call, since you can order one with "Avon Caterham Slicks". Edit: sine production class is supposed to be street legal, then the Avon ACB10 was probably used. These are stickier tires than the CR500's or LFS's road supers.

LFS doesn't have the equivalent of a racing compound DOT (street legal) tire.

Quote from sinbad :

Even the new lap-record holding Radical SR8 was using road-tyres, they claimed they could have taken 30 seconds off their 6:55 laptime if they had used slicks).

True, but Dunlop Direnzas are a lot stickier than "road supers". Apparently this run was done on a Radical with the SVA option. Note that the only tires specified for Radicals are slicks. For street tires, you're on your own.

http://www.cgimotorsports.com/radical_info.html

Note that Dunlop Direnza are probably the softest "street legal" compound tire you can get, from this link in reference to Berkins, another Lotus 7 replica maker. I don't know if the Direnza 02G is what the Radicals use, since the downforce puts more of a load on the tire than a 1200 lb Lotus 7 replica does.

http://www.prbaustralia.com.au/Newsletter%20APRMAY05.PDF

Yokohama A032—good all-rounder, good road mileage and competent track tyre

Toyo R888—as for Yoko A032, but better value for money, but squarer profile may touch front guards

Avon CR500—premium soft road tyre, rain pattern, expensive

Dunlop Direnza 02G—excellent soft road tyre, excellent for supersprints but get too hot after continuous laps

Avon ACB10—probably the fastest road-legal tyre, crossply, very soft, expensive

Regarding the SR8 record run, if that car could really run 30 seconds faster with slicks, then why not an attempt with an all race SR8 to break the all time record of 6:11 set by Stefan Bellof back in 1983 with his Group C Porsche 956 during practice?

Heheh the more and more JeffR says 'road supers' it really makes me want the name changed in the game, lol!

This weekend we had the "GTP Weekend" event at the race track I work at and guess what raced here

LX6-R or what?

Quote from Tweaker :

Would much rather like to see the LX4 a race car instead in my opinion.



The LX4's shape looks FAR better for a track/race version. The LX6 looks too much like a heavy behemoth and for any car in the LX category, I think it needs to look lightweight and perform like a lightweight. Pumping up the LX6 would create some problems I think...

Quote from Tweaker :

And here are a few examples of what I mean by a 'LX4 Track Day car'

http://www.seriouswheels.com/p ... Suzuki-Track-1280x960.jpg
http://www.caterham.co.uk/press/hires/Tracksport2.jpg
http://www.carpages.co.uk/cate ... aterham_cars_14_07_05.jpg
http://www.vfsvideos.co.uk/750caterham.jpg

Even better:
Caterham CSR260 Race ---- http://www.caterham.co.uk/press/auto-hires/47.jpg
http://www.auto-rennsport-page ... der/cat/04/2/CAT04_18.JPG
See More here

Don't say this isn't cool

That is epic. I love the Caterham CSR260 Race. If that got done I'd...I'd...Drive it all the time. It would go extra well with the skin that I recently requested.

why the bumb?

Quote from teppo.jr :

why the bumb?

maybe someone finally used the search function these days

Anyways, thanks to the bump, I saw this thread. It could be cool for S3, if LX8/LXR is brought into the game. I still know people who are a bit pissed for it not being included in favor of the UF1.