The online racing simulator
Cheating != Proof of concept
1
(45 posts, closed, started )
#1 - arno
Cheating != Proof of concept
Hello,

It seemed obvious for me that people were gonna understand that it was a PoC and not a cheating attempt...but no one understood.

What is a PoC ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_of_concept
You should read it carefully.

The Stig.
#2 - Jakg
...erm, how is it obvious? you went around cheating!
You can do a POC on a locally hosted server and submit the information to the devs without ever using an exploit online.
#4 - joen
Ah, you did it for the benefit of LFS? How noble.
Tell me, why didn't you just contact the devs directly, inviting them on a private server to show your proof of concept? Tell me, why instead you had to go on public races and taking wins?

I hope you get your licensed disabled buddy.
My 2 cents:
You were caught on several servers (with several MPRs as proof) cheating. Proofs of Concept are created in sandboxed environments. i.e. you would run your own LFS server, and test your "PoC" on that. What you did was quite the opposite. Because of that, you deserve any punishments you recieve.

Also, have you sent any replays to the Devs of this? If not, I suggest you go and apologise now.
#6 - th84
Why did you have to do it on several server's? Not only cheating, but wrecking and bragging about cheating.

Quote from joen :I hope you get your licensed disabled buddy.

+1
#7 - arno
Quote from Becky Rose :You can do a POC on a locally hosted server and submit the information to the devs without ever using an exploit online.

LFS is cheatable : it was just the PoC.
There is nothing to send to devs : it cannot be prevented with a small fix.

For this last reason, inviting devs to a private server is just useless.
#8 - Jakg
a replay would have done it, using it online against other people got you banned from a LOT of servers, and (i hope) gets your license gone
Quote from arno :LFS is cheatable : it was just the PoC.
There is nothing to send to devs : it cannot be prevented with a small fix.

What do you not understand about the words "locally hosted server"? You did not need to (and should not have) taken this onto public servers.
There are several things you could send the devs: 1. Instructions to reproduce what you did. 2. Replays of you performing said cheating. And 3. Your apologies for taking it onto public servers.
I don't think anybody is going to be interested in your excuses. I don't see any reason why we should tolerate cheats in LFS, so I sincerely hope they take your license.
#11 - Jakg
i find it sad you only did 352 miles, and most of those are at super high speed
#12 - joen
Quote from arno :LFS is cheatable

Duh. any game is.

Quote :
There is nothing to send to devs

an mpr maybe? Or the cheat itself.

Quote :
it cannot be prevented with a small fix.

Who said it has to be a small fix? Whatever it takes should be done.
Besides, if you're so convinced sending an mpr to the devs won't lead to a fix, why bother getting your proof of concept anyway? A proof of concept usually is meant to get something fixed. Besides purposely ruining people's races ofcourse. If you did this just because of a proof of concept, you could have done this on a private server. But you didn't. Therefore you suck.

Quote :
For this last reason, inviting devs to a private server is just useless.

It's you that's useless. You're not fooling anyone with your reasons.
If you're going to be an ass, at least admit you're going to be an ass. Don't insult the community's intelligence by trying to convince them you did it for other reasons.

At least just directly answer this question:
why did you take it on a public server?
Quote :
LFS is cheatable : it was just the PoC.

Of course it is. It's impossible to make something truly secure, although LFS is pretty damned good and cheats are usually patched out pretty darn fast - and Scawen does some stuff most people dont know - like most mods are version specific so Scawen literally disabled an entire version. The online updater sorts a lot of that out too.

I dont actually know what you did, but to me - as a veteran developer myself - a POC isn't something you use. Personally I made two POC's last year, not cheats for LFS though! I think I probably could cheat in LFS if I wanted too, I do understand what is involved.

So it is with some sincerity I say, using a cheat is not the same as proving a concept.
Quote from arno :LFS is cheatable : it was just the PoC.
There is nothing to send to devs : it cannot be prevented with a small fix.

For this last reason, inviting devs to a private server is just useless.

There is nothing wrong in trying. It would have been best just to keep your info about cheat between you and the devs and of course try to give the devs the information you had.
But since you didn't do that you are either stupid or stupid and a cheater.
Bah you have some nerve coming here lecturing semantics!

I'm sure if you invented a new way to rob banks and then actually robbing more then one bank the police and the bank manager would thank you for "proving your concept".
#16 - SamH
Quote from joen :Ah, you did it for the benefit of LFS? How noble.

Actually, I don't think he's even remotely suggesting that he's doing it for the benefit of LFS. He's cheating, and he's refusing to provide the method to the devs. He says there's "no point".

@ arno, meet my ban file. Ban file, meet arno. I think you guys are going to be lifelong friends. I'll never be able to allow you on our servers without watching your every movement like a hawk, and I'm not interested in committing the time to doing that. Trust is gone.
You should read more carefully what you quote:

In both computer security and encryption, proof of concept refers to a demonstration that in principle shows how a system may be protected or compromised, without the necessity of building a complete working vehicle for that purpose.

Going online with a cheat should be considered "building a complete working vehicle"... somehow apt.
#18 - arno
My PoC didnt have any bad consequences for you people, unlike a bank robbing...
#19 - joen
Quote from SamH :Actually, I don't think he's even remotely suggesting that he's doing it for the benefit of LFS.

I was being sarcastic Sam
#20 - Jakg
Quote from arno :My PoC didnt have any bad consequences for you people, unlike a bank robbing...

so hacking is alright?

and its hardly a PoC, thats a REALLY bad excuse
#21 - arno
Quote from Albieg :You should read more carefully what you quote:

In both computer security and encryption, proof of concept refers to a demonstration that in principle shows how a system may be protected or compromised, without the necessity of building a complete working vehicle for that purpose.

Going online with a cheat should be considered "building a complete working vehicle"... somehow apt.

So it is an advanced PoC
Not this again...

Last time a cheat was on the go they used it until they were caught and tried to bul**hit their way out of it like you are. Funny how you've never appeared on this forum until you were caught cheating, eh? Guess you've been banned from a lot of servers, you deserve it .

Nothing stopped you from testing it locally and sending the cheat and information to the devs. An honest person with no intent of cheating would do just that.

Must feel great getting that first win after 3 years of playing LFS
#23 - Jakg
No its not, its a bad excuse - if you really cared you would do this on a PRIVATE server and then send the replay to the devs - calling it a proof of concept wouldn't explain why you did it SEVERAL times
Quote from arno :Hello,

It seemed obvious for me that people were gonna understand that it was a PoC and not a cheating attempt...but no one understood.

The Stig.

I hope you will never see something with more than one wheel on your screen again.
Even if the devs dont remove your license for a while, so you think about your bahaviour, you will not be able to race anymore anyway, as everyone will ban you.
#25 - joen
Quote from arno :My PoC didnt have any bad consequences for you people, unlike a bank robbing...

Pfff......just answer the questions smartass.

If any other than my own bank got robbed, it wouldn't have any bad consequences for me personally. Does that mean I should think "ah well, no harm done"? You have some twisted logic inside your head.
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Cheating != Proof of concept
(45 posts, closed, started )
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