whats the point of driving an lx4 on an lrf server ?

i dont get that driving aid thing.
i have to use autocut? why is that?

Quote from Shotglass :

whats the point of driving an lx4 on an lrf server ?

LX4 can be more than competitive against a moderatly poorly driven LX6,RAC or FZ5.

LX4 can even be a match against a well driven LX6,RAC or FZ5 on the smaller tracks.

i was actually beating an FZ5 with an LX4 on the server, it can be done

Thanks for providing some support for us LX nuts, Becky. Gonna give the server a try as soon as my internet is back in order. Bloody telkom.

Quote from Jakg :

i was actually beating an FZ5 with an LX4 on the server, it can be done

There you go, if Jak can do it, anyone can

oh thanks!

Although tbh im horribly slow in RWD cars, although i think the FZ5 driver was too

Well, on that track yesterday (SO sprint 2) LX4 actually has faster WR than the FZ50 and it's very close to RA too. So keeping those two behind there wasn't that super, keeping the LX6s behind was a bit more challenging and possible if they didn't start front of you

Anyway, my license status rocketed from silver to gold pretty easily as I could drive the LX4, good server

Something strange happened yesterday on the LRF server while I was trying to drive the RA. First I had all the driving aids off (as usual) and the server didn't allow me to drive the RA without the throttle cut, so I enabled it and all was fine. Then, after the next race, I remembered that in RA you shouldn't need the throttle cut so I turned it off and the server was fine with it, until the next race started and I was put to spectate because I didn't have the throttle cut on...

So, do I need the throttle cut in RA or not?

The server told you that you needed it, and wouldnt let you join. If you try to change it once in the car it will kick you at the start of the race, if you do it during the race it will ban you for 24 hours at the end of the race. It really does mean what it says .

i'd still like to know why. i'd understand that you dont allow driving aids, but why force one?

Because it is an inverse aid. Engine damage modelling isn't complete in LFS - realistically you should be manually cutting the throttle but because engine damage in LFS is so forgiving everyone flat shifts instead. This isn't realistic, you should be shedding gears by doing it. To counter this the aid is forced on so that you have to flatshift. When LFS damage modelling is complete the aid will be forced off and then you'll have to cut your own throttle.

uhm... i didnt drive that much in s2 yet, but in s1 flatshifting would have caused much damage to the xrt engine. it isnt like that anymore?

Quote from Da Hoe :

uhm... i didnt drive that much in s2 yet, but in s1 flatshifting would have caused much damage to the xrt engine. it isnt like that anymore?

Nope,engine damage in most cars is all but gone in the latest versions

i still dont get it. i thought this license system was made to ensure the quality of the races on the servers. at least that was said.

has this changed? it seems like the lx6-bait is just used to get racers play more on the stcc servers. on the contrary i WOULD race much more if i am allowed to use that car.

handling a lx6 in a lrf race is much easier than a fz5.

p.s.:
i think ill try to get the points with rx races. the fz5 is awesome there

ok, leave the damage then. in s1 lifting properly resulted in better lap times than flatshifting, in the cars which allowed that (mrt), cause the gear was "back in" faster like that. so you could allow lifting on the lrf server again as it's advantage for those who lift "real" . and dont tell me now that it isnt like that anymore either. that automatic lifting really kills much of the fun for me (and not that i'm a "do it realistic or leave it" guy, i normally use autoblip but would practice to drive without to have nice races on the lrf server, as i'd understand a "no aids" rule).

edit: just got a lesson in irc that i'm talking bs about the "lifting is faster" stuff... so just ignore me. for me it always was like that though

Quote from Becky Rose :

The server told you that you needed it, and wouldnt let you join. If you try to change it once in the car it will kick you at the start of the race, if you do it during the race it will ban you for 24 hours at the end of the race. It really does mean what it says .

My bad english...

What I meant to say is that I drove at least one race with the throttle cut off and the server put me spectate in the start of the next race. This made me think about is it really forced in RA. And because of this :

Quote from Becky Rose :

Maybe I should allow RAC to drive without throttle cut on upshift in order to help balance it with the FZ5 a little?

So just to make sure, the RA "needs" the throttle upshift cut?

EDIT: ok

Ah I see. Let me check the config, because I did allow one aid on the RAC until I get around to banning traction control (not sure if it's even possible yet tbh, havent got around to it).

Throttle cut is forced on for the RAC, throttle blip is allowed temporarily until the TC is switched off the FZ5.

Bear in mind last night I was still applying all these settings and sorting out a few teathing problems with the new car selections - so that might be why you slipped through.

Quote from danowat :

There you go, if Jak can do it, anyone can

Quote from Jakg :

oh thanks!

Although tbh im horribly slow in RWD cars...

:ices_rofl

Thats basically what he said.

Quote from Becky Rose :

Ah I see. Let me check the config, because I did allow one aid on the RAC until I get around to banning traction control (not sure if it's even possible yet tbh, havent got around to it).

Throttle cut is forced on for the RAC, throttle blip is allowed temporarily until the TC is switched off the FZ5.

Bear in mind last night I was still applying all these settings and sorting out a few teathing problems with the new car selections - so that might be why you slipped through.

Maybe you can allow TC and/or Throttle Blip on the FZ and allow not to use throttle cut on the RA. Especially with a clutch pedal and a shifter throttle cut feels tottally wrong, and I personally don't to be forced to use driving "aids". I know this doesn't affect me (yet), but when it finally will, I would be forced to drive for my taste way too heavy FZ

Flatshifting is totally unrealistic, when LFS sorts out engine damage we'll force the aid off on STCC, until drivers have to manually come off the throttle for fear of damage or diff slip and so on the aid will come off the throttle for them. Just one more step away from arcade games.

Quote from Becky Rose :

Flatshifting is totally unrealistic, when LFS sorts out engine damage we'll force the aid off on STCC, until drivers have to manually come off the throttle for fear of damage or diff slip and so on the aid will come off the throttle for them. Just one more step away from arcade games.

This last post has just made the penny drop. :doh: When you flat shift using a clutch and shifter, you don't do it very often! The noise is horrendous. Also the very real chance of missing a shift while your foot is on the boards doesn't bear thinking about. I'm never likely to go on your server because of the 'leveling up' stuff, but a good move on your part I'd say.

The purpose isn't really to 'level' up or have 'mmorg' style races, but to provide a clean racing environment for good racers. This is why the system is so biased towards the quick drivers. When people looks at the STCC system as 'leveling' or akin to an MMO it implies that even slow people will eventually get through. They shouldn't though, it really is biased toward the faster drivers - and then the admins and reporting system is there to keep it clean.

Quote from Becky Rose :

Just one more step away from arcade games.

Not in my opinion. Being forced to have a driving aid on is a step to arcarde games (almost every arcarde game uses forced throttle-cuts). I understand your point well, that you want to ban flatshifting, but you actually can do it in real life. You won't because it increases wear&tear of almost everything under the hood. But the engine damage we currently get for it should be ok, remember, cars have rev-limiters
The thing which is not fine is the gearbox damage, mostly because it's not even there yet.
With forcing driving aids on, you don't increase realism, you in fact decrease it. Have you tried driving with a clutch&shifter with throttle cut on yet? It feels so wrong. Plus throttle cut ruins the one benefit of having a manual clutch: The ability to shift faster than the autoclutch people.
Could you at least detect via InSim, if a client uses manual clutch or a shifter, so you could disable forced throttle cut for them, as those players tend not to flatshift anyway?

It already does detect for a manual clutch Herki. The only people forced to have the aid on are those using auto-clutch. It even tells you this when trying to race without it.

Quote :

Not in my opinion. Being forced to have a driving aid on is a step to arcarde games

This isn't a driving aid that is forced on, forcing people to use it is in actual fact disabling a driving aid advantage. It's a backwards aid, at least until we get better damage modelling.