As in title, I think it's overused in LFS. Every self-made, WR, or even standard (!) setups have clutch pack in default. If available. But only UF1 hasn't it.

IMO some cars should be restricted to only viscotic clutch or open diff.
In my feelings simple LSD feels more realistic. Floor gas at corner exit and inner wheel is spinning, then a little punch and everything is ok. With clutch pack there is lack of 'roadie car feeling'. And even in GTRs I change diff to visco, because it is easier for me (mouse) at feels better.

And I don't understand RB4 center diff really. There's percentage slider front/rear, and LSD or open.
How can you operate the torque with open diff?
I will understand clutch pack in center diff, OR just front/rear wheel drive with only visco in center diff.
It doesn't make sense for me now.

IR clutch pack is used only in: Honda Legend, Alfa 147 GT*, Lancer EVO, Subaru Impreza, tuned Mini Cooper 4x4, Enzo.

350Z, BMW M3 and others have visqo or open diff so... what you think?

Clutch pack is not overused. More like locked diff is overused. It maybe true that clutch pack lsd is too advanced for road cars, but what i have seen is that almost all road car wr setups use locked diff due to some physcs flaw.

Yea, like geeman said, it's the locked diff which is abused. I hope we are having upgraded differential model in the next patch.

Oh locked diff... it is another case, so please forget it in this thread.

I'm using viscous diff as it is better for racing, maybe some acceleration ability is lost, but it wins in ability of control and steering in.

Maybe some other would be better to hotlapping, but I make my sets for 40 lap stints and I'm not making setup for hotlapping separately. Also I prefer stable setup that has ability to go smoothly over the limit and back, there are situations in racing where you need to go past what car is able to or then crash, I like losing bit time and not to crash option however

Quote from geeman1 :

Clutch pack is not overused. More like locked diff is overused. It maybe true that clutch pack lsd is too advanced for road cars,

some good ""old"" cars use LSD... exemple : Alfa Romeo 75 V6 has 25%clutch pack LSD.

Torsen Diff are too advanced for "normal" road cars. .. but there is no Torsen Diff in LFS ( Torsen Diff are LSD ).

About viscous, Viscous is mostly use for central diff, i dont have knowledge of car using viscous diff for front or rear transmission.
Exemple , IIRC : Subaru WRX use LSD for rear ( 40% i think ), Viscous for central, and Open for Front.

cheers,

I couldn't agree more about the feeling of the Viscous diff.

I usually get taunted by team mates or called a noob for using it(!), but it feels far better than any other differential IMO.

Yes it isn't as fast, but as was said above, I would rather enjoy and be consistent in my driving than be continually fighting an unpredictable or snappy setup.

What setting do you usually use for Viscous? In my experience I usually have it set to 17-20Nm (the maximum). Do these values stand up in reality? The reason I ask is because I use the viscous diff on many of the smaller & lighter cars, i.e. LX4, XRG and XRT. However, I often feel that the maximum stiffness offered by 20Nm is not enough for the larger cars, i.e. FZ5 and LX6. Would it be more realistic for the Viscous Diff to go all the way up to 30Nm or higher for instance?

For XRG I have set it now to 14, depends a bit from track of course, as it really is just tight corners where you have to accelerate fast where you need tight settings.

I don't race much else than XRG actually now as our league runs with demo cars and turbo has big disadvantage as required to make more pit stops.


However have been happy with setting 14 to turbo too.

Quote from mrbogeyman :

What setting do you usually use for Viscous?

Doesn't the viscous diff basically turn in to a Locked diff you yank up the locking? I usually use the clutch pack because it's easier to comprehend. I do use quite high locking on that too, because in lfs it's seems most benefical since low locking makes the car rather unstable.

Quote from geeman1 :

Doesn't the viscous diff basically turn in to a Locked diff you yank up the locking? I usually use the clutch pack because it's easier to comprehend. I do use quite high locking on that too, because in lfs it's seems most benefical since low locking makes the car rather unstable.

Speed difference causes viscous coupling to lock, but it is not perfect lock, you can adjust how much it transfers power to non spinning side with that setting that I have 14Nm/rad. Skyline GT-R for example has this kind of differential at front.

With clutch pack you have 100% lock until certain amount of torque is exceeded and then it allows lower grip side wheel to spin certain % faster than other. Percent you set is how much power is transferred to side with more grip.

Torsen is different completely, it does not slip and there is no adjustments, you it works like open diff but just opposite, as where open diff gives power to wheel that has less grip, Torsen gives power to wheel that has more grip.

Then there is Haldex, electronically controlled locking % but I don't know if these have ever used in front or rear differentials.

Hopefully there is not too many errors now, typed in a rush.

Wikipedia differentials

Why are locked diffs overused? Isn't it quite normal for race cars to used locked diffs?

Quote from kernelpanic :

Isn't it quite normal for race cars to used locked diffs?

Not really, no. That vast majority don't.

Quote from MagicFr :

i dont have knowledge of car using viscous diff for front or rear transmission.

350z has rear viscous diff. Also Panda 4x4 is front wheel drive with viscous in the centre and open diffs in front and rear.

I think some people may expecting open diff or viscous behaviour of car, then thinking LFS has some physics issues with oversteering

edit
@kernelpanic: guess why drifters use locked diff

Quote from pasibrzuch :

@kernelpanic: guess why drifters use locked diff

I thought drifters use LSDs, atleast in real life. I have only watched bits of the Drift Bible which preferred LSD over viscous diff.
Locked diff is mostly used on drag racing in real life, since it offers best speed off the line and there is no turns. Other than that race cars probably use some form of limited slip setups.

Quote from geeman1 :

I thought drifters use LSDs, atleast in real life. I have only watched bits of the Drift Bible which preferred LSD over viscous diff.
Locked diff is mostly used on drag racing in real life, since it offers best speed off the line and there is no turns. Other than that race cars probably use some form of limited slip setups.

Locked diff is much better as there is nothing variable, so it is much easier to control slides. Welded diff is just fine for drifting. Also Clutch pack wears rather quick while viscous is unpredictable bit like open diff that is very bad for drifting, some say even dangerous.

how do you achieve a front/rear torque split anyway ?

Quote from MagicFr :

some good ""old"" cars use LSD... exemple : Alfa Romeo 75 V6 has 25%clutch pack LSD.

Torsen Diff are too advanced for "normal" road cars. .. but there is no Torsen Diff in LFS ( Torsen Diff are LSD ).

About viscous, Viscous is mostly use for central diff, i dont have knowledge of car using viscous diff for front or rear transmission.
Exemple , IIRC : Subaru WRX use LSD for rear ( 40% i think ), Viscous for central, and Open for Front.

cheers,

'89-'93 Miata Open Diff (Optional VLSD)
'94-'96 Miata Open Diff (Optional Torsen LSD)

Mustange GT Torsen LSD

Torsens are more common in street cars then Clutch Pack, Viscus I don't see too much and wear out fast.

Quote from Shotglass :

how do you achieve a front/rear torque split anyway ?

i too have wondered that

Quote from Shotglass :

how do you achieve a front/rear torque split anyway ?

You have two axles, one to front other to rear, between them you have kind of LSD unit, that is basic principle and I know there is much more into it, but I think that this simple example is just fine for our purpose :P

Quote from kernelpanic :

Why are locked diffs overused? Isn't it quite normal for race cars to used locked diffs?

Often people say they are when this discussion comes up but they normally can't be proved or are talking about oval/banger/dirt racing. The only documented RL case of using a locked diff in circuit racing is that of Mark Donohue, but then again the 917/30 was trying to put 1100bhp down on crap road surfaces with hard endurance tires, so it really doesn't apply to LFS/current racing. Yes locked diffs are possible but for what ever reason 99.9% of racing teams have never touched them.

With locked diff you will get less grip when turning as inner wheel spins too fast, tire wear is higher and such things. It is good for off roading, drag racing and drifting. In theory Torsen is best for track, but I believe there is some downsides of it that I have not heard (one I know is that it requires some grip to work).

Most of the fast drivers in the FZR GTR cars on conedodgers dont use a locked diff to be honest

Quote from geeman1 :

I thought drifters use LSDs, atleast in real life.

Correct. Most use LSDs.

Quote from Shotglass :

how do you achieve a front/rear torque split anyway ?

By using front and rear differentials with unequal final drive ratios. I guess it should work.
The torque split would be constant only with open differentials. For LSD it changes depending on the circumstances.