Basically at the moment my system is this:

AMD AthlonXP Thunderbird 2600+
1GB of PC2700
40 GB HDD
MSI (ATi) Radeon 9550SE 128MB

Runs LFS in 1280x1024 at upto 40 fps (no AA etc etc) but grids get me down to 20 fps ish - just about playable.

However have some money to spend on a new rig and would like comments on below recommendation by a UK computer builder..

Amd Am2 3800
2 x 512ddr2
Foxconn Motherboard
X-Blade case + 450watts PSU
160GB SataII 7200.9 HD.
And
A 8800gts 320mb graphics card.


Anyone able to let me know if this is good/suitable/overkill (i have no idea i'm not technical) and what sort of fps it would give or any weakspots etc etc.


Any help gladly accepted as i don't want to spend £400-500 quid on something that is not right for the job etc etc.

Cheers,

Dru.

I'm pretty sure that Intel Core 2 Duos are the way forwards at the moment processor wise.

Not 100% though, anyone else got some more geeky info ?

Geek to the rescue!

8800 + AMD = Bottleneck, how much ya got to spend? a Core 2 Duo system could be grabbed for about £200 (i mean Memory, CPU and ram), and then £200 on an 8800GTS 320 MB, the rest would be alright althogh i'd probably get a beefier PSU

Quote from Jakg :

Geek to the rescue!

8800 + AMD = Bottleneck, how much ya got to spend? a Core 2 Duo system could be grabbed for about £200 (i mean Memory, CPU and ram), and then £200 on an 8800GTS 320 MB, the rest would be alright althogh i'd probably get a beefier PSU

I've got £500 to spend (all in inc VAT etc etc)

I've got the operating system/monitor etc etc so effective looking for a complete base unit...

I've always been lead to beleive that intel is better for media and AMD for gaming - is this not true??

so anyways, what can i get for my money thats gonna be able to run LFS and things like half-life 2 engine etc etc but is also future proof (as much as you can get) for a soon to be pennyless student

well AMD used to be better when the P4 was on the market, but the new Core 2 Duo is THE processor to get - for comparison, a C2D does double the amount of work per GHz than a P4, and an AMD does 1.5x times what a P4 does, if that makes any sense - either way, Core 2 Duo is the best bet atm

right ok - so to a non technical person......

Duo Core 6300 or 6400 is there much difference and what 'ingame will the results be'

should i go for a 320mb 8800GTS or should i get a decent 256mB cart like a geforce 256mB or something??

is 1024 RAM good enuff?

Cheers,

Dru.

1024 is enough for XP, but 2 GB would be better

go for the 8800, it really is the best, you get DX10, although if you plan running at high resolutions (1600*1200) then the 640 MB version would be better


E6300/6400? up to you if you have the money

so the E6300 is more than enuff for know and the mobo it goes on will be able to accept the better chips if money becomes availalbt to upgrade further right?

yup, BUT an "E6320" is coming soon with more L2 cache (so it will be faster), so expect the price of the E6300 to go down.

Even if Intel were to drop the socket now, then you would still be able to upgrade to an E6700 and get more performance

excellent - any ideas about time to launch. no point buying it noe if the price will come down next month etc etc..

in march ATi will release a new graphics card, the "R600" which will be the new fastest, and have 2 other models (for mid-range and just crap cards), and nVidia will release an 8600 at the same time, this may affect the price of the 8800

i guess its always a thing about - tomorrow it will be cheaper, but tommorrow there will always be newer better models out.....


it's an ongoing cycle isn't it.


Optical Drives\DVD Writers SAMSUNG DVD+/-RW 18x6x18x8 DUAL LAYER BLACK Cooling Fans SPEEZE - Heatsink/Fan - Silent
CPU\Intel Core 2 Duo INTEL CORE 2 DUO E6400 1066FSB SKT775 Memory\DDR2 1GB DDR2 PC-5400 667 MHZ
Hard Drives\SATA 250 GB SATA HDD UDMA 300 7200 8MB
Graphics Cards INTERGRATED 3D VIDEO
Motherboards\SKT 775 ASUS SKT-775 P5VD2-MX S/V/L M-ATX 1066 Computer Cases XBLADE - Black - 450W PSU
Operating Systems NOT INCLUDED Anti Virus NOT INCLUDED
Sound Cards ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL 5.1 SOUND
USB Ports 10 X USB 2.0 PORTS
Networking FAST 10/100 LAN (BROADBAND READY)

Thats £335 including VAT - just have to sort out a decent graphics card, any ideas??

If you must have a DX10 card, the 8800 is the only real choice (don't know prices) but I can heartily recommend my 7900GS Extreme as a quality DX9 card (was only about £130 too).

LFS runs around 150FPS (down to maybe 80 or 85 full grid) and the HL2 benchmark was well into the 100s as well. I also get good rates in BF2, Oblivion and STALKER with the detail up full (or almost in Oblivion's case). I use an AMD CPU, because nobody mentioned Intel being the better option before I bought mine

ah ok so the original spec listed WILL work and work to a good standard, but there is a 'bottleneck' that is holding back various parts...

so therefore i have a choice to either go dx10 with a 8800gts 320mb or go with a dx9 Geforce 7900gs or gt

can someone tell me the differences of dx9 and dx10 - to me will it really make a difference..

By the end of this i hope to have a good spec machine plus also a basic understanding of what everyone is talking about

cheers,

Dru.

Doesn't a DX10 card need Windows Vista to work in dx10 mode or so? For an XP user the biggest difference is the increased processing power but the dx10 effects are only working in Vista, in XP it is "just" a dx9 card, right?

Quote from Hyperactive :

Doesn't a DX10 card need Windows Vista to work in dx10 mode or so? For an XP user the biggest difference is the increased processing power but the dx10 effects are only working in Vista, in XP it is "just" a dx9 card, right?

Yes. Also, it'll be a little while before there are a load of DX10 games about.

But, for the price the 8800 is a steal. Far faster than the high end DX9 cards and not really that much more £££.

Quote from Bean0 :

Yes. Also, it'll be a little while before there are a load of DX10 games about.

But, for the price the 8800 is a steal. Far faster than the high end DX9 cards and not really that much more £££.

you mean the 8800gts 320 is a steal compared to the top 256mb cards or the 640??

It's probably worth your while having a read through the Graphics Card section of Overclockers forums.

Here's a quote of interest though

Quote :

DEFINATELY go for the single 8800 GTS
the amount you will spend on a pair of 7900 GTs is simply not worth it for previous gen hardware.
I would strongly advise ANYONE against buying a new DX9 card now, let alone 2.
With the 8600 range due out soon, and the cheaper 340 MB 8800 GTS, there is simply no excuse for buying DX9 hardware now...
Anyway a single 8800 GTS can do stuff that 7900 cards can't do, even in SLI - like HDR + AA together.
It also has a much better image quality overall.

Also you can always overclock the GTS - it can be overclocked to 8800 GTX levels, and then it will definately be much faster than a pair of 7900 GTs.
Really even at stock speeds it is easily as fast as a pair of 7900 GTs, and for less money!

excellent - that settles it - i'll get the 8800 gts graphics card and will try and get best mobo/chip combo to run it for the money...

dual core 2 6300 or amd am2 4200 - which one tho....

Quote from Dru :

i guess its always a thing about - tomorrow it will be cheaper, but tommorrow there will always be newer better models out.....


it's an ongoing cycle isn't it.


Optical Drives\DVD Writers SAMSUNG DVD+/-RW 18x6x18x8 DUAL LAYER BLACK Cooling Fans SPEEZE - Heatsink/Fan - Silent
CPU\Intel Core 2 Duo INTEL CORE 2 DUO E6400 1066FSB SKT775 Memory\DDR2 1GB DDR2 PC-5400 667 MHZ
Hard Drives\SATA 250 GB SATA HDD UDMA 300 7200 8MB
Graphics Cards INTERGRATED 3D VIDEO
Motherboards\SKT 775 ASUS SKT-775 P5VD2-MX S/V/L M-ATX 1066 Computer Cases XBLADE - Black - 450W PSU
Operating Systems NOT INCLUDED Anti Virus NOT INCLUDED
Sound Cards ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL 5.1 SOUND
USB Ports 10 X USB 2.0 PORTS
Networking FAST 10/100 LAN (BROADBAND READY)

Thats £335 including VAT - just have to sort out a decent graphics card, any ideas??

to be honest I wouldn'T go with that motherboard as it only supports up to 533 mhz ddr2 memory and it is VIA chipset based. I guess it is very cheap, but if you want a decent MB with potential to overclock you should go with the ASUS P5B series. it is up to you to decide how much fits into your budget, but depending on your needs you'll be better off with any model out of the P5B series. the basic p5b model is quite cheap as well and performance wise it is right up there with the more expensive models, however it is missing out on the accessory side and like less SATA ports? no firewire and so on, just check out the specifications on the ASUS homepage for the various boards and see what you need.

Also buying 800mhz ddr2 memory would be wiser, as the price is not that much higher and again you have more potential for OC or future upgrades and you can run CPU and memory in asynchronous
(spelling? word exists? )mode, which can give you a fair bit of performance boost if you use it at 800 mhz instead of 667.

about the videocards. from the Nvidia side I would only recommend the new 8800 series as the cards before didn't have a good AA/AF quality, therefore the ATI cards produced a better (sharper - for me) image quality when AA and AF were used. If you want a decent DX9 card, you could select from the ATI cards as well, the x1900 XT with 256 MB is an excellent choice, but the x1950pro would also rock and is cheaper.

edit: definitely the e6300 instead of the x2 4200 AMD. Also try to squeeze in 2x1gb-s of memory, or 2x512mb to take advantage of dual channel mode.

Quote from Dru :

dual core 2 6300 or amd am2 4200 - which one tho....

AM2 is a rubbish socket, although you can use an AM2 CPU in an AM3 mobo, you cant use an AM2 Mobo with an Am3 CPU, so DEFINATELY go for the Intel

Quote from Jakg :

AM2 is a rubbish socket, although you can use an AM2 CPU in an AM3 mobo, you cant use an AM2 Mobo with an Am3 CPU, so DEFINATELY go for the Intel

i think i've got that point now mate

just seeing know what combination of available parts i can get for the intel dual core 6300 with the 8800gts grafic card for under £500 all in

Trouble is like i said, i'm not that computer literate so things like types of memory cache speed sockets etc etc is just all dutch to me (btw thats an english expression and is not rude to dutch people

Thanks for all your help people, keep those ideas and suggestions coming.

BTW i want to buy this all from one place already built and tested or is the kind of stuff we talking about REALLY BASIC and just plug in's

PS i have changed a PSU once, a grafics card twice and a CD Drive - so i can do the basics - its the chip and mobo that scares me something cronic and when people talk about bios etc etc...

Cheers,

Dru.

Just a thought, if there is nothing "wrong" with your comp now, about 2 months could save you up to ~100 pounds...

Intel's launching a few new C2D models, and planing significant price drops across the board in late March/early April. about 50 USD for low end c2d's.

R600 comes out ~April, which is already promising Crushing top end performance, And Best Performance per dollar models. If true it:
a) will bring D10 competiton to Nvidia could = 50 USD cheaper 8800s maybe
b) Ati could be cheaper with = or better performance that 8800gts
c) NVidia might drop the 8600GT which would be awesome, better than 7900gtx & x1950xt's... (Easily enough for LFS and HL2)

Of course, stuff always gets cheaper, so you don't want to Always be waiting for the next thing. But in this case, 2 months might be worth it to you...

Quote from Dru :

i think i've got that point now mate

just seeing know what combination of available parts i can get for the intel dual core 6300 with the 8800gts grafic card for under £500 all in

Trouble is like i said, i'm not that computer literate so things like types of memory cache speed sockets etc etc is just all dutch to me (btw thats an english expression and is not rude to dutch people

Thanks for all your help people, keep those ideas and suggestions coming.

BTW i want to buy this all from one place already built and tested or is the kind of stuff we talking about REALLY BASIC and just plug in's

PS i have changed a PSU once, a grafics card twice and a CD Drive - so i can do the basics - its the chip and mobo that scares me something cronic and when people talk about bios etc etc...

Cheers,

Dru.

CPU's are just flicking an arm up, dropping it in (well, dropping it in might bend the pins, but neatly place it in, close the arm, add a smidge of thermal paste, apply HSF, done!

and don't forget the copper risers to keep th mobo away from the chasis. but if your lucky the new baord will have the same riser layout as your old mobo.