The online racing simulator
Open to modding community
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(89 posts, started )
#26 - JTbo
Quote from tristancliffe :Just thought of a community project designed to 'okay' a mod for use. Feel free to pick holes in it, or dynamite it altogether.

1. Someone makes a mod using released, official, modding tools. In that tool, as well as making the mod, the username of 10 people must be defined (and you should discuss that with those people, as they are the testers and approvers. They should be chosen as either known specialists in a particular type of car, or just because you value their opinion over others).

2. The mod is exported from the tool in 'check mode'. This car/track cannot be used online at this point, and can only be used by the defined accounts. The nominted drivers can then use that mod offline indefinately, and are asked to allow/disallow the mod based on the results, which is an online process, and talks to a master server (where the mod is also registered by the modding tool).

3. Once 80% of the nominated testers approve the mod, it becomes available for download to everyone, and usable online once downloaded.

This would mean that crap mods don't get released, and good mods are automatically kept up to date on an LFS master server. In time it is likely we'll see the best modders teaming up with the best testers so that more and more faults/bugs are ironed out by the time of initial release. The actual mods themselves can be hosted seperately, with perhaps patches to that mod also on the master server for autodownloading (thus saving us from having to find the ellusive link to the 1.0.2.3 version when we've got 1.0.2.2 which doesn't work online as everyone else upgraded last week when the topic was fresh.

Thoughts?

People come and go, I would say that it is hard to find 10 people that stay and are dedicated enough to such work.

Also views might differ about what is crap and not between these people, eventually leading fights and whole system to collapse.

No, I think system must be such that making and releasing mod is possible without any 'councils', but some kind of rater system should be good, where mod could be flagged as inaccurate. Again here problem is that these council type of groups would be good, but there is more problems that they solve.

Tools are what are limiting most of crap mods out, so that you really can't make unrealistic physics, then accuracy is of course one thing where rating system will come in.

Also tools should not be free, but cost at least same as every stage costs.
Only those with modding tools license should be able to rate/flag mods.

Central source for mods is a must indeed. Also mod should become broken if latest version repository can't be contacted.

Think about also possibility of two modes for online mods, approved and not approved (mods may be low quality etc. disclaimer to that of course)

Lot of things to think about and consider from many directions, but certainly there is no need to be afraid that it will be like rFactor, never, I trust Scawen so much that he does know pretty well how NOT do this
#27 - axus
I like the idea of modding and expanding the game but I agree that the devs will have to be innovative (and they've proven many a time that they can be) to insure that mods are of good quality.
#28 - JTbo
Quote from total konfuzion :
Again IMO, the best way perhaps, maybe to have some LFS controlled servers that run nothing but stock content, so people who wish to stick to that have nothing to fear about mismatches, others who want to race extra content can then find another server. That said, it seems many here don't want modding so even without LFS controlled servers, going by the responses, there's going to be loads of servers running only OEM content, but have to say, that if LFS does become modable, I bet many of the nay-sayers will either have a go at it if tools become publicly available or run their favourite real life track anyway

As I wrote earlier, very easy to solve with selection like license filter, just add mod to there, or why not put there approved mods and unapproved mods filters and you don't need to even see anything else than stock content if that is your preference. No problems with choosing right server etc.
#29 - Dajmin
Another (slightly less kind) way of doing it, is make the modding process so complex that only hardcore mod teams would be able to work it That wouldn't be great though, because you then cut off one guy who might have otherwise created the single best track anyone has ever seen. And people like me, who wouldn't try to recreate existing tracks, but make their own originals.

I'm sure LFS will be moddable eventually, but unless the system automatically downloads them, there will be countless problems with incorrect versions and with that the splitting up of the existing community.

As I've said before (and it ties in with JTbo and total konfuzion's last comments): I'd rather keep current content and have people to race against than have custom tracks up the yin-yang but nobody to race against.

But yes, we have a long road to go before LFS gets to that stage.
#30 - duke_toaster
Here's a radical suggestion.

Get people to post models and specs for cars (maybe tracks at some point), and any ScaViEr deem fit would be considered to be added in an incompatible patch at some point. Obviously no IP infringing stuff would be added, but as seen as most mods suck ass anyway it doesn't matter.
#31 - JTbo
I don't think that today we can think very much of dial up users, simply that technology is so slow and content is today so much more complex that it uses loads of space, so it really is not worthwhile to support much of dialup. Also in 5 or more years it will be that there is even less dialup users.

Editors should be easy to use and with sliders and check boxes mostly, everything that is possible to calculate automatically should be left to editor, no need to have modder make mess with such values.

So in very likely case you are not messing with too many numbers at all and that makes mods less likely to be crap as modder can concentrate to find facts and specs, put those into editor and that way get it good.

I'm not any engineer or very educated person, but I have not never been very stupid either, some at least say Still I have spent year studying things about cars and from rFactor, there is still huge amount of things I need to learn until I can say that I know what I'm doing in all aspects of mod physics. To make good mods it is not way to go as there are few of those who knows stuff, almost none that are ready to learn it and ton of those that don't have interest or time to spend studying stuff, they just like to find specs and input them, that is what editor should be able to accept and control so that it is not modder that pics numbers from hat.

For example let's think about dampers, modder thinks this is sports car it has rock hard suspension, so he sets springs to somewhere in 3.5Hz range, then dampers, "hmm, really me no understand these, let's add 500 to each, it will be fine" and there we go car that resembles kangaroo. There should be primary method of setting suspension so that this kind of situation never happens.
Select car type, based on weight editor calculates springs and offers slider where modder can choose rate between realistic limits, dampers should be automatically calculated based on those and then there could be slider to adjust them between realistic limits, everything guided, controlled. There is not really a lot of things that can't be estimated quite well and those estimates are several times better than any mod has had.

There could be more free option, but it really should be available to only those who can pass some exams or something, really not for everyone.
#32 - Shotglass
Quote from tristancliffe :Thoughts?

the problem with any such system that is integrated right into lfs is possible licencing issues
#33 - Hockquan
Quote from tristancliffe :Just thought of a community project designed to 'okay' a mod for use. Feel free to pick holes in it, or dynamite it altogether.

1. Someone makes a mod using released, official, modding tools. In that tool, as well as making the mod, the username of 10 people must be defined (and you should discuss that with those people, as they are the testers and approvers. They should be chosen as either known specialists in a particular type of car, or just because you value their opinion over others).

2. The mod is exported from the tool in 'check mode'. This car/track cannot be used online at this point, and can only be used by the defined accounts. The nominted drivers can then use that mod offline indefinately, and are asked to allow/disallow the mod based on the results, which is an online process, and talks to a master server (where the mod is also registered by the modding tool).

3. Once 80% of the nominated testers approve the mod, it becomes available for download to everyone, and usable online once downloaded.

This would mean that crap mods don't get released, and good mods are automatically kept up to date on an LFS master server. In time it is likely we'll see the best modders teaming up with the best testers so that more and more faults/bugs are ironed out by the time of initial release. The actual mods themselves can be hosted seperately, with perhaps patches to that mod also on the master server for autodownloading (thus saving us from having to find the ellusive link to the 1.0.2.3 version when we've got 1.0.2.2 which doesn't work online as everyone else upgraded last week when the topic was fresh.

Thoughts?

I was thinking something similar. I'll outline what I thought here:

1. Allow people to run whatever cars they like single player or on private servers. Don't see why people shouldn't be able to if it's for them and friends and you need to allow testing in some way. We could even have a section on the forum for people to announce testing servers.

2. Have a website where, at an arbitrary period, a group of people (respected community members who are generally trusted to not act in a noobish manner) choose a selection of tracks/cars to be considered for addition to 'official' content. Then have the community vote (1 vote per account not including demo accounts obviously) for which track/car they want to be added.

3. Release a mini patch after each voting round containing the new content and allowing it to be hotlapped and used on public servers.


The main advantage this has over Tristan's idea is that it's less vulnerable to teams approving their own members content. Of course, large teams could still hold sway, but I know that, personally, I'd vote for the track I liked best regardless of what my team wanted me to vote for (votes are anonymous of course so teams can't enforce voting - I'd be surprised if anyone tried this anyway it'd be a very good reason to quit a team IMO).

Sorry if anyone already suggested similar mods to Tristans idea but i'm not in the mood to trawl through lot's of posts.

Personally it's a big +1 for me even if only for use with single player cos I've always wanted to make a track for a sim without having to get hold of any expensive modelling software (I'm right to remember that LFS has it's own bespoke track making tools?)
#34 - GFresh
#35 - Bob Smith
Hockquan - not a bad idea, although I don't see a reason why content should ever need to become "official". There could just be a site with an "unofficial" content database, where only work of a certain standard will be available.

I don't know if that could tie back in with LFS Files or not. Would make a lot of things easier if that gets back up and running.
#36 - XCNuse
i say redrum and fonnybone release a "final" LFSTweak/mecanik and that solves all the problems..
#37 - Bob Smith
Tha only does car specs though, not car bodys, nor tracks.
#38 - keiran
Quote from Hockquan :
3. Release a mini patch after each voting round containing the new content and allowing it to be hotlapped and used on public servers.

The devs can't release licensed content in the first place hence the fictional content we have . The developers could have no involvement in the mods as technically they'd be making money off something they have no permission to use which is a dodgy area to get into. I feel rFactor is cutting the line very fine including officaly licensed circuits and just changing the name ever so slightly. I do wander how quickly they'd be removed at the threat of legal action. Modders can just about get away with it because they don't charge any money so it's quite hard (and pointless) to try sue them. Although I suppose a company that might have that particular series licensed could try sue on the grounds of lost proift.

I was working on a BTCC mod at one point for another game but it never saw the light of day because of the threat of legal action from the orgainser of the BTCC.

Your idea is how I'd work it but it's still not going to solve the problem of destroying pick up racing. The biggest problem is when something new is released everyone rushes off and starts using it. rFactor is the perfect example, there are so many tracks available and loads of duplicates varying hugely in quality. I've only ever made it into one server where I've had no problems. The rest of the time was full of mismatches and cars appearing to be driving in the air on a different track .

Quote :
(I'm right to remember that LFS has it's own bespoke track making tools?)

Yes, but you will most likely still need 3D knowledge to build the track. Doubt it's going to be as simple as making a scaletrix set if that's what you mean by `track making tools.`

Keiran
#39 - XCNuse
Quote from Bob Smith :Tha only does car specs though, not car bodys, nor tracks.

exactly

its all we need
#40 - S14 DRIFT
in my opinion. If you open the doors to modders, it will end up like RubbishFactor. - You will need to download eleventy seventy eight different mods just to get a race. My mate has it, and if it wasnt for the fact he had like every mod availible i wouldnt have a chance to even race
#41 - XCNuse
forget tracks, you can make any car you want with lfstweak (sorta, i liked the last version more, it had more options)

as for tracks... its not going to happen, making a track takes so much time.. and plus as its already been pointed out

who wants to waste 50 gb of hard drive space.. and not be able to play online? i know i dont!
#42 - Hockquan
Quote from Bob Smith :Hockquan - not a bad idea, although I don't see a reason why content should ever need to become "official". There could just be a site with an "unofficial" content database, where only work of a certain standard will be available.

I don't know if that could tie back in with LFS Files or not. Would make a lot of things easier if that gets back up and running.

I mostly thought of it that way because people seem to fear that getting a decent race will be hard if there are a lot of available tracks/cars; perhaps rightly so. A flood of new content may mean more servers with the same playerbase, hence the field being spread very thinly. I can appreciate that fear because I prefer slightly busier races by and large, though, I'm not entirely sure that fear is a reasonable one.

My idea was simply that if every few months, or whatever period was chosen, 1 or 2 tracks and/or cars were added 'officially' (meaning useable on public servers), maybe even on a trial period, then it would prevent a flood of poor tracks and cars onto the master server, as it were.

Assuming that LFS is opened to modding at some point I would not be against any content people made being available regardless of quality (if it looks bad and people rate it badly then simply ignore - of course, one thing every needs to learn about the internet is that it's often best not to trust other ppl's opinions too much). So long as that content is not allowed on public servers unless specifically premitted. I would rather that most of it was not allowed on public servers

I suspect that your databse idea and my 'official' content idea are pretty much one and the same, just using different terms. I also suspect that my use of the word official was quite sloppy! Having said that, if the 'good' tracks and cars were made 'official' (oops...being sloppy again! ) it would prevent problems with file versions differing or not having files at all - of course, an auto downloader would do the same but could increase load to servers themselves, possibly degrading play experience or making bandwith costs prohibitive for server owners. If it were to happen I'd prefer it that way and hopefully I've explained it well enough so you can see why I would! Of course, if you can see why I shouldn't then let me know

Going slightly OT, I would like to see more servers using a track rotation like on the STCC servers (others too but I can't remember names atm). IMO combo cycling should be an integral part of LFS (improvement suggestion there, dunno if it's already been suggested!).

Then in the future world of modding (that bleak, barren world, as many see it) the larger level of content wouldn't be so bad. I'd hope that if cycling was there and easy to use then many servers would use it. That way more content could be put to use per server and the larger level of content wouldn't be so bad. I should point out that I'm not saying that rotation should be enforced, merely an option.

At the end of the day I don't see why custom content can't be included in some fashion so that it does not degrade play experience. It just needs to be managed effectively.

Apologies for the long post...I'm often quite voluminous when it comes to writing things.
#43 - Hockquan
Quote from keiran :The devs can't release licensed content in the first place hence the fictional content we have . The developers could have no involvement in the mods as technically they'd be making money off something they have no permission to use which is a dodgy area to get into. I feel rFactor is cutting the line very fine including officaly licensed circuits and just changing the name ever so slightly. I do wander how quickly they'd be removed at the threat of legal action. Modders can just about get away with it because they don't charge any money so it's quite hard (and pointless) to try sue them. Although I suppose a company that might have that particular series licensed could try sue on the grounds of lost proift.

Yep, didn't think of this. Presonally it wouldn't bother me too much. I'm not too concerned about racing real tracks and real cars. So long as I'm having fun I don't care if it has a real equivalent, but I definately take your point. A lot of people want real content, but if modding were to happen how I suggested it then real content would obviously not be made 'official'.

*EDIT* Thought I'd add something. 'Licensed' material released to be used in the same format as rFactor leads to the problems you described somewhere in your post (quoted below as it happens). 'Unlicensed' material released in the way I suggested would hopefully be smooth and with few or no problems. Like I said above, 'licensed' material does not bother me in the least. Quality material does.

Quote from Keiran :Your idea is how I'd work it but it's still not going to solve the problem of destroying pick up racing. The biggest problem is when something new is released everyone rushes off and starts using it. rFactor is the perfect example, there are so many tracks available and loads of duplicates varying hugely in quality. I've only ever made it into one server where I've had no problems. The rest of the time was full of mismatches and cars appearing to be driving in the air on a different track .

This would be the main concern but so long as the content was of a gauranteed level of quality I'd ride out the initial burst of popularity. That's one of the reasons I'd like 1 or 2 new tracks/cars to be added every 6 months or so at most.

Quote from Keiran :Yes, but you will most likely still need 3D knowledge to build the track. Doubt it's going to be as simple as making a scaletrix set if that's what you mean by `track making tools.`

Yep, I fully understand this point. My main issue is that I'd like a tool of a reasonable quality that doesn't require a loan to be able to purchase it. It's not like I think it would be easy, it's just something I'd like to play with
#44 - Hockquan
Quote from total konfuzion :What about someone who spends 3 months or more building a high-quality track that doesn't get accepted, not many will bother twice and most, if they decide they like the concept of building their own content will simply pick it up and take their content and themselves to another game (I left LFS for 18 months due to wanting to create my own content).

Also a good point. Not sure what to say about this one.

People having their content refused is the lesser of two evils in my opinion. There...I came up with something.

I'd hope most people would take it as reason to ensure that the work they produced was of high quality and if it were refused then it would be a reason to do it up and improve it and resubmit. Of course, I'm being optimistic on that point.

I'd still play LFS even if a track I created didn't make it into the game and like I said, I'm not against any content being used on private servers. I'm simply against 'bad' content being on public servers.

*EDIT* Of course, if a track you (the proverbial you) created didn't make it into LFS you could always release it for rFactor.
#45 - Woz
Mods is a complex issue. The main problem with modding is the hobby modder, people who do not understand optimisation, testing or usability etc.

They build a resource hog of a track/car that runs fine on the dual CPU SLI monster with more ram than you can count and wonder why it does not work anywhere else. Or they see it works fine how they have configured their game settings but looks crap for everyone else etc. There is then a constant tweak, release, tweak, release cycle after every single issue is reported until nobody has any idea which version they should run. Online becomes a mess and you spend more time downloading patches than playing.

The simple solution is as follows. When a user track or car is released it can only be used offline. LFS Players can then tag the track when they think it is ready for release. If the content gets enough tags (Say 1000 lfs players, make it high so hard to get) then it can be used online. When allowed online the track is LOCKED DOWN, no more edits or changes are allowed. People will not vote unless they think the track is ready otherwise they will be stuck with a crap track/car in the wild.

This will FORCE the noob modders to go through strick review processes and learn they can't just churn out crap, it has to work on many different systems.

Finally there should be limits on the number of pollys etc that a track or car can have so to keep the LFS system requirements valid. These limits should be set by the devs based on stats of the LFS content.
#46 - Hockquan
Quote from Woz :Mods is a complex issue. The main problem with modding is the hobby modder, people who do not understand optimisation, testing or usability etc.

They build a resource hog of a track/car that runs fine on the dual CPU SLI monster with more ram than you can count and wonder why it does not work anywhere else. Or they see it works fine how they have configured their game settings but looks crap for everyone else etc. There is then a constant tweak, release, tweak, release cycle after every single issue is reported until nobody has any idea which version they should run. Online becomes a mess and you spend more time downloading patches than playing.

The simple solution is as follows. When a user track or car is released it can only be used offline. LFS Players can then tag the track when they think it is ready for release. If the content gets enough tags (Say 1000 lfs players, make it high so hard to get) then it can be used online. When allowed online the track is LOCKED DOWN, no more edits or changes are allowed. People will not vote unless they think the track is ready otherwise they will be stuck with a crap track/car in the wild.

This will FORCE the noob modders to go through strick review processes and learn they can't just churn out crap, it has to work on many different systems.

Finally there should be limits on the number of pollys etc that a track or car can have so to keep the LFS system requirements valid. These limits should be set by the devs based on stats of the LFS content.

Mods certainly are complex but potentially very good. Look at games like Quake and Half Life. Both great games, but only made better by the modding that happened. Sure, all kinds of dross got released but there were enough diamonds to make it all worthwhile. Of course, I never really played online back then. I mostly played on LANs with friends, were bad mods were something to be laughed at then deleted.

Back to LFS though. What you've said appears to be pretty much what I suggested in my first post (in a round about way using far too many words). I'd never expect a track/car I made to make it into LFS because I would be a noob modder. It wouldn't stop me creating with it for fun.

In my head I imagine the inclusion of tracks to be a community driven thing. The devs would (as I'm imagining it) only be involved in actually 'unlocking' the tracks for offline use, unless they wish to be more involved.
#47 - Hockquan
Quote from total konfuzion :The problem I see is that 2 people may have equal abilities and produce equal quality, but only accepted due to popularity, for example...

A lot of good content could fall by the wayside, but that's much better than a lot of poor content being included simply so all the good could be included too.

Quote from total konfuzion :Now someone comes along and builds a relatively good version of Nords (for arguments sake, slightly less quality than my fantasy track).. which is going to get included? There's no question really.. yet I spent 2 months on my track adding these little details and working hard on making the AI competitive as best I could within certain restrictions and to make the track surface actually feel like a grassy area, not a grassy looking road track.

I see your point but I'm imagining anything that requires license, such as Nords, would have to be a no no simply to avoid those license issues. As I've said before, I see this as no big loss. On that count I'm not sure there would be a major problem. However, I'd hate it if no rallyX tracks were included simply because it's unpopular..I love sliding around on a bit of dirt personally. Maybe I should include in the system I suggested that certain styles of track could be specified on occasion. So the second track included would have to be a rallyX track, just as an example for arguments sake.

Quote from total konfuzion : I don't expect to "win" everything and know there's people out there with far more talent than myself, but if the above hypothetical example was to be true (and no reason to really think it wouldn't).. then there's no chance I'd bother again.. I'd find myself a new sim to play with. OK, most will just say "see ya", which is also fair enough, but negativity travels faster than positivity and if / when people hear about a situation like that, they're possibly unlikely to give it a go themselves, thus in the long run, very little will ultimately be built for the sim, but plenty for other sims out there where anyone can have a crack and "be accepted".

Given the communitys general opinion on modding I doubt anything sub par would ever be accepted. I don't mean any offence or to imply that you yourself would not be able to create anything good enough. TBH, I wouldn't mind if it was only the people who were very good at it that gave it a go. I'm not interested in a large quantity of custom content, I'm interested in quality content.

Quote from total konfuzion : Don't get me wrong, I won't download content for any sim that looks like it was started and finished in the same time as it took to eat / drink the curry and beer, but IMO, it has to be all or none, not just a certain "special few".

Unfortunately a lot of people don't seem to care about quality in their work or what they download as you do. As for all or nothing, I'll have to disagree. I would only want content that is over a certain quality. I don't care who made it, so long as it's good enough. Just like if I wanted someone to do the electrics in my house. I wouldn't let someone who isn't qualified do the job do so just because they want to. I'd get someone who knows what they are doing to do it. Perhaps taking the argument towards the extreme (bad electrics in your house is a lot worse than a bad track/car in your game) but that's the idea I'm getting at.

Quote from total konfuzion : Funny you added that edit, that's exactly where I moved to for 18 months for modding and also ported the completed tarmac and WIP tarmac track to GTR2 too.. but let's not turn this into an "LFS is greater than everything" thread.. it isn't and there's more than enough threads discussing that already.

Simply trying to say that if someone is desperate to get their work out there then there will be other avenues available. I wasn't trying to say LFS is the best or anything and really don't want this thread to go that way...I'm enjoying this debate!
#48 - Gunn
Considering the history of game modding it seems very much like for every one person who had genuine talent and commitment there are four million people who don't, but think that they do.
Every quality mod or project that I have seen has taken a year or more to finish. There are a lot of unfinfished and unpolished mods in various games and sims. There are a ton of crappy mods and models made by people who have their ambitions mixed up with their capabilities.
The concept of creating your own custom content is very appealing but the reality is that it takes a hell of a lot of hard work, common sense, and consideration to produce a quality result. Quality isn't just about appearance and accuracy, it's about being fit for purpose. LFS is a race sim through and through, a quality mod would adhere to this ideal without compromising the many aspects that make LFS stand above the competition. Reading many conversations in the race sim world it is very apparent that many modders (and many people who want modding capabilities) don't understand or care about quality at all, they just want carX or trackX in their sim or else just want to see their own content being used by other people.

It's all well and good to propose a system of checks and balances to ensure that only quality mods become useable or available but who will be the judge of these systems? It is not realistic to expect the devs to spend their time perusing and approving mods and add-ons.
A public voting system is also unworkable, I bet there'd be a lot of kids who would vote for any "Civic with naws at da ring ho" mod no matter how good the quality was or wasn't.

The unique development path that LFS follows has unsured that we have a proper race sim at our disposal that focuses on racing online using a realistic physics engine and user interaction. One of the reasons why LFS has not been polluted with inaccurate real world content or compromised physics to please the consumer market is because of the clear vision that a only a small and focused independant dev team can provide.
While I am not against custom content I am not supportive of "opening up" LFS for modding. I'd rather see no publicly available modding tools ever than see the gate opened to the flood of self-styled mediocrity that is evident in other games and sims. After all, LFS is unrivalled when it comes to online racing, there is simply no need for public content in order for LFS to continue to please race sim enthusiasts and remain focused on online racing.

I'm happy enough to have more content created by Eric and Scawen. People talk about LFS cars and tracks as "fantasy" cars and tracks but to me the people who think that LFS needs real world cars and tracks are the ones who are wanting to fantasize. Is real world content desireable? Yes of course is it. Is it needed? No.
Arguments in favour of modding that are based on the idea of more sales or on the idea of appealing to a wider audience I find easy to dismiss. LFS is already great and it works. It is ever improving and has not bowed to the normal pressures of the market that often ruin a promising software title. A true race sim enthusiast will always be attracted to LFS for fundamental reasons, content is important in so much as it caters to the goal of creating a race simulator. How many modders or wannabe modders really have their hearts and minds in the right place when it comes to being true to LFS? Who would be the judge of that? Ourselves? I am not confident about that.
#49 - Hockquan
@Gunn:

I totally agree with you. One of the reason's I'd never release anything I made to any game community is that it's unlikely to make the grade.

I also can't disagree that any QA system would be difficult to implement or control. However, there's no reason not to try and come up with something (I don't mean to say you're saying the opposite, just pointing out that I feel the discussion is still worthwhile).

I also agree that the Dev's should not be expected to 'police' any such system or get involved too much unless they want to. I suspect they would want to to some extent. As I imagine it people within the community who understand and appreciate the spirit of LFS would have to involved in policing such a system (as I imagine it that would mostly involve deciding what is put out or the community to vote on for inclusion). As to who would do it, that's not a decision I could easily make. Any suggestions on how such decisions could be made?

To be honest, I don't want mods as such. Not packages of a lot of low quality things, that's for sure. I'd rather see a few quality community projects (meaning a track and a car, hell maybe even two - so long as they are good and 'fit' somewhere) added every now and then (added for online play on public servers that is - see earlier posts ). I was never imagining full blown mods; I was imagining small additions. The core physics and so forth should never be touched by the community...just the things that go around them.

I'm pretty sure it wouldn't take some people a year to make 1 track for addition to the game. I'd want a system where small amounts are added occasionaly so that people have the time to make something of quality.

I totally agree with the points you made about real cars/tracks. Really not necessary. Lapping around a real track in LFS would not IMO neccessarily be more fun than any of the tracks we have now. The fun part is the racing, the actual tracks and cars are just the details.

Anyway, I'm getting all tired now so I should go to bed before I start making even less sense.
#50 - JTbo
Also one problem with public voting system is that cool mods are getting max points in areas where they lack of while not cool mods are scoring less in areas where they are better as seen in rfactorcentral. For these some solution would be nice.

Only possible method for rating is community rating, is that only those with modding license for example, would that solve biggest issues?
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Open to modding community
(89 posts, started )
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