guys, this is to both 'sides' can we please keep any arguments or bad thoughts towards each other in private messages, this thread is for my bennefit, and your in the future, not another slagging match.
right, is there anything that i missed off the list, or is this all down and ok?
if it is, then this thread is obsolete and can be deleted. unless you want it as a slagging match, in which case, only after im done.
i hear you m8, but for the sake of just getting along can we just do what the thread asks and put you point accross in a (how do i put it) less aggressive manor. try no to post in anger. i found that helps from starting a storm in a tea cup.
but anyways. tell me this.
if you were racing and a yellow flag appreared and then you overtake on a yellow, would you give the possition back as not to get a penalty or would you just give it 100% and race on?
i have a slight problem with this as i am one of the the ones who would give it back.
v4, also when i asked about the stock cup i was just covering what many people will do, skip the reading and go straight to the juicey bit. if the stock cup allows tapping (very close racing) then i think i would have to considder this cup thing after all.
i have been racing the rb4 (offline) alot lately and it is a really good car. me finx that the fxo should the even more fun.
"Caution: Cape does not enable user to fly."
-superman costume warning label
Democratic leadership... Like I said before, as long as you don't implement this lots of people will disagree with the CRC and will be stopped from joining or running under its flag. People need to have the feeling they're heard when they have something to say. Looks like they don't (at least a few who seem devoted enough to tell you about it). Don't worry about the couple guys that give you a hard time in here... Worry about the many more people that simply gave up on CRC and think it's no longer worth the time to type.
Don't ask the community for advice, because all you get is the anger that is in people know... Make new suggestions, and see how people respond to that. Now it seems you're making a last ditch effort to gain power over the community by making it seem like you're letting them decide.
Crude way of putting it, and not meant to diss any of you, but the longer this goes on, the more I think you're going about it the wrong way.
im not trying to gain any power. im trying to get a view of how the community, or at least the ones who can be bothered to post, think of us as an orginisation. this will allow me to get a picture, and then a possible list of solutions.
if im supposed to worry about the people who cant be bothered to type cause they dont think its worth it, well how do i fix that, its like a woman, they think you can read minds...we cant, and im doing this to try and, once again, get a picture
I really dont know what to say. I cant defend myself or the CRC as that is taken as me laying down the law, I cant protect the work we have done as there is so much to disagree with or complain about.
The suspentions from the CRC website where done as there was serious problems and it was a CRC Admin Staff decision to do this. After people requested to be removed from the CRC, the first stage in the removals process is an account suspention as the CRC admins need time to discuss and decide upon relevent action needed.
After suspention, which normally means total suspention as in staying away from the website, the people involved continued to post as guests therefore abusing the Guests right to post on open forums and making the website suspention seem pointless. Although I can understand why the posting continued.
Threads where closed at the CRC because things were turning personal and thats really not a good thing. But I can understand that closing a thead does no good at all.
A statement and the oppertunity was offered to the majority of people involved and I do not know the status of this as it was dealt with by a party that was not involved with the initial incidents. That is something I wont be going into any further here on these public forums. I feel that this is a private matter and should be kept that way until resolved.
I have since played in servers with people involved and things have been fine for me
@thisnameistaken - Please, yes we do want to hear thoughts etc here as this is the reason why V4 setup this thread... But please keep the insults that are coming towards Stoney away from here, this is not useful suggestions. Its useful to know what people think are problems, and who we should be doing about them... But no mud slinging please.
Thats not laying down the law, thats a simple request from an LFS user.
There was a suggested post I read earlier...
From V4
To confirm, upon the handover of the CRC, the member database was largly filled of races who no longer race, inactives if you will.
We are not in the least sorry for removing all from the Database. The CRC was restarting with a new set of rules and a new purpose, you will agree that things had to change in order for the CRC to survive due to the advanced admin controls featured in LFS S2 Alpha.
This is not to be taken as a swipe at those who were in the original CRC, but times change, everything changes and the database was removed. The other reason was that the Forums of the pervious CRC was not part of the handover, they do not belong to us.
This was all personal information that had no reason to be released here. This was internal CRC policy, simply wasnt the business of anyone not involved with the running of the CRC.
The CRC was totally restarted on the 24th July 2005, restarted as in a brand new website, new forums, new members, no members in the Database. This is building a totally new community within the LFS world, and we are enjoying many many members now and are running as strongly as ever.
Also from V4
This is sillyness. The CRC is about a community of people being able to have fun together cleanly. The Cleanly is not always meaning on the track. The Banger and Contact forms of racing are simply elements of fun. If you dont agree with them thats fine, thats your choice and thank you for sharing that opinion. There are people who enjoy them and as long as the people who understand what they are taking part it are having fun, why stop them.
The CRC also offers, and is in the process of setting up many leagues for normal racers too. The CRC Challenge Cup is a very successful example.
From Slartibartfast
convoluted... Why?
Applicants shouldnt ask people to watch or give votes, its a thing that happens naturally, granted that members need to be more willing to give votes. Done worry about taking peoples time, but no one should be askin for people to watch or give votes.
The CRC servers are infact regually un use, tho as with any server there are slow periods. The XFR Has been discussed elsewhere, and is something that will change with time.
Also From Slartibartfast
Not sure I understand this fully, can you explain a little more...
But we are running leagues, the CRC Challenge Cup was infact an idea that came from an applicant!
In summery, im not laying down the law here, Im just simply having my say in a thread thats been placed within the public eye, surely theres no problems with that?
I never said you were trying to gain power... I said that it gives the impression of it.
People don't want to think for themselves, but they want to think they are. Believe me... You can persuade them to say something by giving them something to answer, and be constructive about.
I meant not like a literal question... They'd have to start thinking on their own about that one... You must have some idea what you want the CRC to be... Put the concept on the forum, and let everyone fire at it. They'll think just the same, but they'll just never notice they are.
"What do you want from us?"
Or:
"This is what we'd like the crc to be:
- point 1
- point 2
What do you think?"
It's your choice on how to approach it, just thought I'd give you my $0.02
im quite suprised by stoneys last post, in a good way! it seems that, with the exception of the opening line, hes starting to realize his faults and hes makng a effort to correct them, and for that im pleasently suprised! i dont think the explanation of the suspensions/banning was needed, but im happy to see he has changed the way he words things and is making a effort to improve his faults!! that is a good thing and i hope it continues!
im not saying im someone that needs to be impressed, im just saying that he is making a effort, and im happy to see it.
i appreciate the effort(if im seeing what i think im seeing!!!)
[QUOTE=thisnameistaken]Thing is, Stoney, you've got to be aware of the language you're using and the way you're thinking. Right there in the opening line of your post you're talking about "defending" yourself and the CRC. It's this defensive posture that causes all the conflict. You have to stop treating criticisms as personal attacks or things will never change.
Hmm I started the previous post with "I dont know what to say" was posted, becuase at the start of the thread, I really seriously didnt know what to say... whats wrong with that?
The second part, defenting myself and the CRC. Well yes... Kevin, the problems you have with the language and the way I use it..
[QUOTE]I am certainly less accident-prone than Stoney, who is supposed to be running the show, so it can't have been anything to do with my driving.[/QUOTE]
Yourself an me are quite simerlar with language and the way its used, a lot of it is down to personal prefference and the way that things read or are read by others, for example the opening of my previous thread...
It was written as Me personally saying I didnt know what to say, nothing more...
[QUOTE] Actually this harks back nicely to a point I made earlier about the CRC seemingly being obsessed with the minutiae of officialdom and bureauocracy for bureauocracy's sake. We'd already told you we'd quit, so why did this suspension procedure have to happen? It was totally pointless.[/QUOTE]
The Suspention, as previously explained, was the beginning of the process of removal, this is an internal CRC process and nobody other than the suspended person should be told about it. There were mistakes made on both sides of the fence there.
I am willing to accept and take take care of the concequences this has, personally I dont have the power to remove people from the CRC, its a decision that is voted on by the entre crc admin team. If I had the power to remove people myself, dont you think that will be a point that was being talked about? So anyway the suspention was the first step.
[QUOTE]While we're here, I should add that your, personal, behaviour when acting as the leader of the CRC, is something I particularly don't like. What I'm saying is that while I like you personally, I don't like you when you've got your "official" hat on. It makes you behave in a pompous manner. You should just stop doing it and be yourself.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps this is something that should be discussed in private, I dont see why this is something that needs to be public...
By th84
[QUOTE] im quite suprised by stoneys last post, in a good way! it seems that, with the exception of the opening line, hes starting to realize his faults and hes makng a effort to correct them, and for that im pleasently suprised! i dont think the explanation of the suspensions/banning was needed, but im happy to see he has changed the way he words things and is making a effort to improve his faults!! that is a good thing and i hope it continues!
im not saying im someone that needs to be impressed, im just saying that he is making a effort, and im happy to see it.
i appreciate the effort(if im seeing what i think im seeing!!!)[/QUOTE]
Its an effort to try and turn things around, believe it or not, we are activly doing things to improve things.
At the time that I signed up, the process was something like this:
Register with site to get into forums.
Read these 7 things in 7 different places that you can't find and we don't post a link to.
Post in this thread to get approved for the approval process.
Once that is moved to another forum, you application to become an applicant is "in process".
Wait for email saying you've been approved.
Once approved, you will be able to access the actual forum where you can apply.
Apply there, using these guidlines that can't be found on the site without bomb sniffing dogs and at least three emails to admins.
Once your Application is approved you may put the |A after your name. (Although it was totally unclear as to how I would know I was approved. A name changed in a list in yet another thread that was impossible to find.)
There was a serious problem with a lack of links in the approval process. A single form or page, with a single email or forum reply would go a long way towards deconvoluting the thing.
Also at the time I applied: The rule was not to ask. Cool, good idea. Then at some point I thought I read a post in the forum where one of the admins was advocating asking.
I never have though, so I squeaked by on that one, eh?
I have no skills in the FWDs. Last thing I need to do is try to show how clean I am in a car that doesn't listen to my right foot. In a game that is so balanced, I find the lack of RWD support by CRC to be the most grievous of it's failings.
I knew saying this that the idea must already be out there. But said it anyway. Haven't had a look at the Challange Cup yet. My idea was that, say you have two leagues. GURU, and CORE. Both of them apply, as a league, to CRC. A CRC admin drops in on one of their scheduled races. The replay is looked at and they get a "CRC Team Approval". No one driver is approved singly, but the entire league is approved under the special designation. So the team vouches for the drivers that did not show at the race, but it's only a team approval/membership. If individuals want to join they must still go through the regular process.
Now you have Team Approvals. What's that good for? Well CORE can go to the CRC site and go, "Say, that GURU league looks like they'd be a good race." Assured that GURU, on the whole, are clean racers looking for the same type of online experience that CORE enjoys. Then a glove is drawn across the face, and the fun ensues.
So, that's good, everyone's feeling good about stuff, excellent.
Stoney, this:
I read Slarti's post as suggesting CRC sanctioned and monitored club vs club events. Even if that's not what he's suggesting, let's chuck it in there anyway...
Come back and have a look, we changed this ages ago. Its now a simple to understand form. But that doesnt mean the rules should be ingored.
This is a preference then. FWD cars are very sensitive and need to be respected. Its a practice thing, but it works for RWD cars too. As stated, the CRC will be using different cars, its just a prefference.
Come post your idea on the CRC website and let the community vote.. I understand the idea, would be hell to organise, but could be great!!
Here's another idea I had. I'm posting it here because I really believe in the potential of the CRC and I think the LFS community will benifit on the whole.
It has been questioned, "What use is the CRC in S2?"
Well it should be obvious. To bring like minded racers together.
My league has some kind of script on its web page that, once we log in, shows where all the other members of the league are racing. What servers they're on. Does the CRC have that? Would go a long way towards |As meeting up with |Ms.
And of course the rules should be read. They are the meat and potatoes of the CRC. I personally think they are very well written and leave a lot of room for personal style while creating a safe environment for dicing.
I just felt i should give my opinion while this thread is still alive...
v4forlife, you indeed have a good approach and you surely could have 'saved'
CRC when it was time. Unfortunately, i think it's way too late to try and
revive something that was dragged in the dirt and mud and then stepped on
repeatedly. The CRC name has been around since the beginning and some of
us know the original one...and liked it. I doubt that can be recreated in any
way, so let's not get too nostalgic.
Frankly, i'd use another name as it feels like you guys are exploiting the
name more than respecting it's 'origins'. I don't want to start things, i too
have tried to apply and was seriously put off by the overly complicated
process which didn't seem to work for 'some' people. This, combined
with the fact that this will never be CRC again, why insist on using that
name ?!
I also have to agree that the close ties with a team is not exactly in the
best interest of CRC either imo. I'm just glad that v4forlife is mature enough
to understand our frustrations with the new direction of CRC and wish him
the best as he obviously has a good approach. He's not insulting anyone
for having an opinion BASED ON EXPERIENCE and he's not defensive about
every little detail like his high-school reputation depended on it. Cheers for
that. Now time to clean up your cabinet and get some more peeps like you
in there
Seriously, you guys think of using another name and start clean instead ?
I mean, Michael Jackson will never be Michael Jackson again, so why bother ?!
How about looking to the future. The CRC is not trying to be what it was. What it was was great at the time, but things change and now its time to get the 'old school' CRC people thinking of the future.
If we cant we cant, they will go about thier business and we will go about ours.
Not using the CRC name is just the same as letting the CRC die, the people posting here are mainly not for letting it die, the people posting here are for trying to make things better, which in essence is what we are about anyway
On the other hand, as bad as Eisner was at the start, the spirit that Walt intended is slowly creaping back in. Walt's vision was pure. Eisner is now mixing that with business. Not an easy task, but he's doing it.
about the rules missing, hes right in a bit, i found that a bit of true, but since its been quite long time that i´ve been on CRC that u guys might have that cover. But this weekend i will stop by and check if there is anything missing, if there is i will report strait to u stoney.
I am actually (slowly but surely) working on this now. I hope to have it up and running with Every member (applicant, member or admin) of the CRC and currently i believe that is approximatly 280. i hope to have it up and running by christmas (hopefully alot sooner if time around work allows it) it is a great suggestion and if i had not already started on it then i would deffinatly do so after seeing this.
Fonnybone, I know exactly what you mean and understand completely. a new name would indeed signify a new use.
I do believe how ever that Clean Racers Club can mean more than Clean Racing. (it cant be a CLEAN racers club without being a "Racers Club") and i believe that the Clean aspect is important even though the S2 Liscence process has reduced deliberate wrecking substantially.
Hopefully some of us can get the Driving and Racing school up and running and if it works as i hope it will then bring some more Close racing to S2. There is plenty of Clean racing i agree. But personally not enough Close Clean racing (excluding several servers where people race together reguarly).
V4, Great idea on the post. I will do what i can to help you put all of the ideas into action. Let me know if u need anything
wow, thank you guys, this thread has really turned its self around, and i respect all of you for that.
also, im very grateful for all the kind words out there, and its all in the name of getting the CRC and its coming improvments out there, and to promote my name as some one who will and can get anything done(ok, that last bit i just thought of, but hey...gotta try)
im putting together bits and bobs and will start to, point by point, go though them.
thanks everyone for yoursupport, however it is displayed.
