No. Some section of the rules bans the Astra. The 2006 Astras would be unable to score points in '07 as they are BTC-T, now only S2000 cars can score points. In 06 SEAT were already S2000, the Toledos were BTC-T IIRC but the Leon which they changed to were S2000.
the Toledo was S2000 aswell, as it was used in the ETCC which only runs S2000 spec cars. the Toledo was the first S2000 car to run in the BTCC, as the rules allowed it.
Alot of people don't like the front of the new Vectra S2000 car, I personally think it looks great, if not different!
Been a huge fan of the BTCC for many years, even when it went through the rough patch in 2000-2003 but over the last few years it's really picked up, 27 drivers confirmed for 2007 and no doubt there will be 30+ on the grid before the end of the season...
F1... bah, what's that?
for outright entertainment, overtaking and action, the BTCC is the thing to watch! Also all of the drivers are very aproachable people, I spend most the time between races in the paddock at Croft (open paddock, awesome stuff) chatting to a few drivers, I remember a few years back me and my dad were stood talking to James Thompson for about half an hour, he was happy to answer the questions we had!
it really is very easy to get close to the action, and a bargain to go and see too!
I personally can't wait for the 2007 season to start, some great looking cars on the grid, and a great field of drivers too! unfortunately I'm over in Dubai for the first races, so gonna get my parents to record it off the TV so i can watch them when i get home :P
My thoughts exactly, as recently said on the nKPro forum. You can keep your glamour and flashiness and huge amounts of cash, i wanna see racing,overtaking and close competition...everything F1 no longer provides.
Cant wait for the new BTCC season to start
As for F1, I'll be up at some ridiculous hour to watch the qualifying and race from Aus, desperately hoping this is the season we get some racing back, only to be sadly disappointed and disillusioned and give up on it for another season..... Unless of course Lewis Hamilton fulfils his potential.
Having a Brit perform well will always raise the interest level a bit for me, but until they change F1 to enable some overtaking it's going to remain a rather pointless and dull sport. Still, it gives me a good reason to have a nap on a sunday afternoon (Watch start of race....fall asleep within 5 laps, wake up with 2 laps to go ,seems to be the routine:nod
Door banging and rubbing is one thing, Jason Plato and his pals inability to pass without half spinning out the car infront is totally different. The standard of driving has dropped significantly since the early 90s.
Hopefully they will get their act together and learn to be a bit more patient, you can rub doors without turning it into banger racing.
Oh and the Vectra looks crap, my favourite ever BTCC cars were the old Audis and Volvos.
I only saw him make a few clean passes last season, its entertaining in the same way that Schumachers antics were entertaining. Lethal Weapons action scenes are entertaining, doesn't mean they are good films
Reason the BTCC organisers don't punish the destruction derby driving? Brings in the crowds. People who aren't really into racing are attracted because of all the smashing of cars makes it entertaining, like the people who watch `banger racing.` BTCC has gone dramatically downhill. I remember a time when I was really excited at going to Knockhill to see it.
F1 however, totally different story. Raikkonens move on Fisi was fantastic and I literally jumped off the seat as it was happening. Never have I seen such good overtaking in the BTCC. Always results in one car being barged out of the way, that's not racing in my books. Smacking the rear round to aid an overtaking move is not overtaking, yet that is the norm in BTCC.
I'm embarrassed to have BTCC as Britain's premiere motorsport, how many drivers aspire to be there? Very few, the ones who usually end up there are the ones who couldn't get a seat in the WTCC etc.
I'm sorry but I'd rather watch F1 over a bunch of second rate drivers going banger racing
Agreed BTCC has entered into a silly downward spiral of increasing costs, decreasing numbers whilst letting bumper car antics go as entertainment.
Whilst modern touring cars are relatively safe I fear that all this banger racing nonsense is someday going to come crashing to a halt when somebody gets killed by not by someone's innocent misjudgement but after a deliberate move. The BTCC needs to get back to a stage where there is decent racing, touring car racing should be close whilst avoiding contact when at all possible. If you go back to before the late 80s touring car drivers drove cleanly because of the simple fact it wasn't safe, didn't stop them racing very closely (far more so than today) but they weren't complacent.
First of all... everyone has their own opinions on the Tourng Cars vs F1 debate, and I can see that you're expressing your own opinions.
Now, I've known Keiran for 4-5 years now, so I'm gonna pick on his post to disect as we've been having this argument for about as long as we've known each other
You'll find that drivers get punished fairly and equally. Rob Collard last season comes to mind after he had a bit of wreckless driving. Jason Plato has been called before the stewards alot of times, the one driver who doesn't get punished enough is Matt Neal... because he makes it look like the accident was the other drivers fault, when it was his.
Anyway, "People who aren't into racing are attracted to it because of the smashing of cars." well I can tell you now, that's NOT the reason I love it so much (and you should know how much I love motorsport), I love it because it's close and very competitive. I certainly wouldn't call it banger racing, yes there's contact, but you get cars separated by a couple of centimeters that are all different shapes, performances etc, it's going to happen. I love the fact I can get close to the action. and it's unpredictable, absolutely no idea who's gonna win the next race.
When was the last time it cost under £20 to get into an F1 meeting?? when was the last time you could walk around the paddock between races at an F1 venue talking to drivers watching the teams at work??
the only reason why you think that move was 'fantastic' is because it only happens a couple of times a season.
smacking the rear end around to overtake isn't the norm... not in the slightest, I can only remember 1 such incident last year, and the driver got penalised 30 seconds for it. Door handle to doorhandle racing is what you can expect from the BTCC, mainly because it's held on the tight British tracks. There's occasional unfair contact, but door rubbing has happened year upon year. I'd love to see you drive inches off someones rear bumper at 120mph and not hit them :P
You'll actually find alot of drivers do aspire to be there, Jason Plato has raced in the BTCC since 1997, Matt Neal has been racing in it for every year since 1992/93, if they didn't like it then how come they're still there? A few of the top drivers have been asked about WTCC drives (Jason Plato, Matt Neal, Colin Turkington, Tom Chilton), the reason why they don't go there, because the BTCC is properly run, not by the FIA who are there to destroy motorsport. If drivers didn't aspire to be there, then how come there's 27 cars confirmed for this season and no doubt more will join before the end.
I can guarentee that if you put F1 drivers in touring cars they really wouldn't do well at all. They'd be awful... hitting each other all the time and blaming it on someone else. (Nigel Mansell anyone?). Infact it's something I'd love to see just to see how bad they are without driving aids.
To sum it up:
F1 = alienated things that shouldn't be called cars, electronic driving aids, several brake pedals, electronic gear changes, electronic this/that/other, driver just presses the pedals and turns in the direction they want to go, car does the rest. BTCC = real looking cars in race spec. 3 pedals, a gear leaver, a steering wheel, 4 wheels, an engine, and a bodyshell. The driver does all the work.
Well you've clearly not watched it since 2002/03 then have you?
End of last season 31 cars on the grid for the last races.
This season 27 cars so far confirmed with another 3 or 4 expected to be announced soon.
And something else which is completely unrelated... the people who run F1, seems not to care about it at all! F1 = politics = bollocks. Dare I bring up the US GP 2 years ago? what a farse that was! makes me embarrased to think that's the worlds most popular international motorsport
it's not just F1 that the FIA are screwing about with. No, WTCC aswell, they give BMW a 15kg weight loss because they're doing rolling starts for race 1 now, they were the quickest cars around the track anyway! Seat are PROVEN to have a disadvantage with the shape of their car giving away straight line speed, do they get weight taken out, nope they don't at all. Infact I read somewhere today that because of the FIA's shambles Seat may be pulling out of the WTCC.
BTCC is run by Alan Gow (and the MSA), he knows what's good for the BTCC and what isn't. He doesn't go making stupid decisions, he makes decisions that improve the racing and improve the spectacle while keeping it as accessable to the public now as it has ever been, if not improving it. And another great thing is, on the BTCC forum, Alan Gow has his own section where fans can ask him questions and he will answer them the best he can.
the main point is... everyone has their own opinion of what's good and what's not, people like Tourng Cars, people like F1. But to say that people who like touring cars aren't true fans of motorsport, shame on you.
ok, I think i covered everything :schwitzand also probably the longest post on this forum EVER!
I could, but you know... I'm from Newcastle, so I have to expand on it all
I think that was 50:50 really... in the first move Plato just held his line and Matt just turned in on him, typical Matt Neal, make it look like the other guys fault. Same with the 2nd move, Jason held his line hard on the brakes, Matt got the gap on the inside, but he just clipped the grass which spun him. No penalties were given and the Clark of the course has all the data they need to see who was right/wrong.
The second incident is harder to call, the first one though I rekon Jason knew exactly what he was doing. Jason just ignored Matts car and took the normal racing line, knowing the stewards would never punish him for it, in my opinion if a car is fully alongside you and its faster then you can't force them off the track like that.
aah the days when Charlie Cox was commentating... even the commentary was added entertainment.
I remember Knockhill 1998 very heavy rain, Craig Baird was leading the race in the Mondeo and Charlie said "Ford is an agronym for Floats on Race Day" I don't think anyone other than Mr Cox would come up with something like that :P top class commentator, bring him back I'd say!!
IMO it really looked like Neal was being too aggressive there. One could argue that he tried to cut Plato off (1st incident) and then squeeze in where there was no room (2nd incident).
Thanks to Mr X's rather lengthy post i don't have to type all that myself, so thanks for summing it up perfectly.
Saying "People who aren't really into racing are attracted because of all the smashing of cars makes it entertaining" is just plain insulting....i live for motorsport in all its forms....but F1 has become the least entertaining of them all. Never forget that sport is supposed to be entertainment as well.
I downloaded a load of old 70's and 80's F1 reviews, to remind me of all the great races i've seen....my god it was a proper sport then with the essential ingredient...overtaking...multiple times...on the same lap.
F1 these days is basically 20 cars hotlapping. I still watch it, but it sends me to sleep 90% of the time.
I'd never bother going to see it live anymore.
Nope..it's BTCC and MotoGP that gets my cash..i like to pay to be entertained.
Thats another great reason to watch MotoGP....Charlie Cox is just the best, always manages to have me in stitches
I met him and Steve Parrish at last years MotoGP at Donnington, both of them are great, friendly and funny guys who spent ages talking to us.
(Watch start of race....fall asleep within 5 laps, wake up with 2 laps to go ,seems to be the routine:nod
and also probably the longest post on this forum EVER! 
