Now I'm pretty sure everyone has seen some of these clips in tube, but I was wondering now which sim would be noob friendly to start experimenting some flying. I was thinking that it would train my precision a bit as well as my spatial awareness.

I have MS Sidewinder precision 2 and my DFP has naturally pedals, so I believe I'm all set in controller wise.

I do think that I have also some old SU-27 Flanker sim, FS4, some really old combat flight simulator and perhaps IL2 also, I'm not looking to get new ones unless those are free so perhaps would start with some of these, but which?

I'm not interested from online or even from combat, just from practising control aircraft and manoeuvring it so that I could do what I want.

The problem with that setup is flying is all about co-ordinated controls and having wheel pedals for your rudder just isn't going to work well because you want the rudder to be smooth and the pedals to be connected, you'd have to use it as combined axis and be strictly on one pedal or the other to get somewhat better control but it'd still be tiring and difficult to hold in position for a prolonged length of time.

I've set my DFP for use as rudder pedals before, in fact that's the only way I fly anymore. If you just check the little box that says "Use combined pedals" in the Game Controllers menu, everything runs just great.

What sort of aerobatics are you looking for? Plain contemporary aerobatics planes, or will anything do?

The best flight model at this time is probably Aces High II's, but that's a WWII sim.
You get the game for free, it's less than a 100MB, two weeks free in the subscriber arenas, and the 8-player arenas always for free.
The head coder for the game is the same guy that coded a lot of Warbirds.. they also did Dawn of Aces. He flies an RV8 in reality, so the one that's in the game will probably be nearly perfectly modeled.
You can fly offline all you want, there's a lot of maps to choose from... most of the players that went on to get their pilot licensing mentionned their instructors were surprised how naturally they learned to handle the plane by themselves.

AH2's graphics aren't as flashy as Il2's, though. It's like LFS, old school coding with great physics and gameplay.

I used car pedals in that game, and for what it's worth (I frequently placed in the top 15 out of 3000+ pilots), it was never a problem. You will more likely be bothered by a bad joystick deadzone, but even then, only in very precise maneuvers.

Wow, that was some awesome flying. Make me wannaget my Saitek Rumble Force joystick out and boot up IL2 Sturmovik. That really had to take some practising to do all of those acrobatics as IL2 is so hard to play lol.

I often put my self to shame when i join a IL2 online server by crashing simply on take off one of the reasons why i keep my feet on the ground and replace lifting wings with downforce wings and for wheels damn LFS goooooooood.

Will probably have a play with IL2 later tonight as its a great game!

mad

Not to detract from Il2, but you can do some pretty funny stuff with the physics there.. flip planes 360 degrees long enough to shoot down the guy on your six, etc.

JTbo, one of the best exercises for situational awareness is either dogfighting (mock, if you dont feel like having to take off over and over), or formation flying. You'd just need to find friends to fly with.

The best flightsim aerobatics I've seen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... ;mode=related&search=

LockOn rocks !

Well, I guess that flying basics should be first in a line, tried IL2 and could not see altmeter when looking outside of window, then plane kind of touched ground a bit and engine refused to work, tried emergency landing but landing gear decided to apart from plane as I could not see speed what I was doing, it was not too bad landing for mi first though, lost only engine and landing gear, plane did not even explode.

That plane was heavy to fly, took long time to respond to my controls, defineatly I would like to something more sporty. maybe there is some other models.
My IL2 looks older than LFS, I guess this is original, the first IL2 there was, world is empty and it runs perfectly with max details.

Must check that ace sim soon too, maybe it has some plane that is not so slow to respond :P

My joystick does not feel very precise either even name says it is precision, there is lot of loose at center, sure it reacts to slightest movement, but resistance to movement starts after stick is moved a bit, I guess it would be better if there would not be any loose, but then again perhaps that would mean serious spending to some controller and can't afford that.

I can train car control with cone track rather well, but this flying has always been bit problematic, there is no cone tracks in flight sims I guess :P

Quote from The Moose :

The best flightsim aerobatics I've seen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... ;mode=related&search=

LockOn rocks !

F***ing AWESOME!!
Those guys were brilliant; having flown flight sims for ages I know how difficult that must be..


RESPECT!

Hehe, glad you liked it.

As a pretty good LockOn pilot myself, i have to concede that those guys are a class apart.

Well, most entertaining Lock On stuff is this:
http://billetjohn.free.fr/

Make very sure that you watch them in order, VERY IMPORTANT!

First is quite fun, 1 1/2 is nice and 2 is absolutely brilliant, when viewed in this order as stuff in episode 2 is connected to earlier ones and you certainly won't get some of it without watching in order, but that made me laugh out really loud at 3am, great stuff.

If you're interested in acrobatics you should definitely check out the Flight Unlimited series. The first game even has lessons on acrobatics. It doesn't use lookup tables like most flight sims and is the only sim I've ever played that accurately models turbulence and buffetting. There are three games in the series and you can use them together, adding each successive game. Even though the last one, Flight Unlimited III, came out years ago, it had features that MS Flight Sim just got in recent versions. And I still think that MS Flight Sim doesn't hold a candle to FUIII in terms of physics modeling.

I dunno why the FU games never got wide support as they are, simply, in a whole other league than other civilian flight sims.

Yeah gee I haven't even thought of the FU series for about 10 years, but I recall the models being a lot better than the FS98 stuff of the day, and probably better than modern FS2004/X stuff as well.

I play around with FlightGear. It is free, and has multiplayer, but if you don't feel like d/ling a whole lotta terrain data, you can buy a CD for $. I haven't setup my DFP with it because it feels very weird having one rudder pedal be heavier then the other. I am going to search the local thrift stores for rudder pedals and stuff.

flightgear.org

Quote from wheel4hummer :

I play around with FlightGear. It is free, and has multiplayer, but if you don't feel like d/ling a whole lotta terrain data, you can buy a CD for $. I haven't setup my DFP with it because it feels very weird having one rudder pedal be heavier then the other. I am going to search the local thrift stores for rudder pedals and stuff.

flightgear.org

This looks really nice project, open source and quite nice physics according to page, must try it, thanks from link

I did test also Aces High II, it has bit bad sounds and scenery is bit empty, imo. Managed to fly trough hangar however, and wrecked really lot of planes

Old IL2 has better sounds but those seemed to be quite lot like same, maybe IL2 has bit complex physics feeling, but I'm not experienced enough to say anything from physics.
All I know is that it is damn hard to try to follow other aeroplane as there is no brakes so I always overtake, need more practise.

It is surprising that there is quite few products freely available. Also that shuttle driving simulation :P

This joystick that I have has rotating handle so I have been using that as a rudder now, seem to work without any adjustments in all flying sims, also pov hat works without setting controls, too easy really

I think that I have played with flight unlimited I really long time ago, I think it won't even work in XP?

First I must learn to fly straight, it is now nudge, nudge, nudge all the time, annoying machine won't fly straight Found some trims just few moments ago, must try those, maybe that is what pros do use

Quote from JTbo :

First I must learn to fly straight, it is now nudge, nudge, nudge all the time, annoying machine won't fly straight Found some trims just few moments ago, must try those, maybe that is what pros do use

Well, I have been attempting a flight gear circuit tutorial, but it is hard. There's downwind, upwind, I just don't understand the air traffic controllers either.

I told you it was old school
The good sounds are made by the players.. you have to look for them in the Custom sounds and skins forum. The ones that come with the game are almost as old as Aces High v.1 No one uses them.

Trust me though, it might seem a pretty small difference, but it's not negligible, between AH and Il2's physics. Real veteran pilots agree AH has better physics.. it is definitely less mushy than Il2's controls and the instruments are made so you can actually read them.
Make sure you try the RV8, the A6M2 and A6M5... The other planes are heavier, sort of like the FZ5 in LFS. They can be very snappy and precise, but their stall isn't as predictible when you're still learning (e.g. the Fw190D anywhere under 200mph). The Ki84 is also very agile (especially when you are slow enough to lower the flaps and have WEP on), as is the Spitfire Mk. V.

If the plane really doesnt fly straight, you may need to set the trim differently. Look for "elevator/aileron/rudder trim" in the controls.
AHII has an automatic trim adjustment you can turn on.

There's a number of ways to airbrake, depending on the situation, you can drop your MAN pressure (throttle), up the prop RPM, and cross the controls - put the rudder one way, and/or compensate for the yaw with a combination of aileron and elevator... the plane will stand crooked and bleed a lot of energy.
Aircraft maneuvers are all about energy.. you have to spend no more, and no less than you need to, sort of like you ride the limit of traction in racing sims.
Flight sims have a pretty steep learning curve, but if you stick to it, it's very rewarding.

Quote from JTbo :

Well, most entertaining Lock On stuff is this:
http://billetjohn.free.fr/

LMAO.....Thank you so much for that link.......awesome vids.

Quote from The Moose :

LMAO.....Thank you so much for that link.......awesome vids.

Best game videos that I have seen for sure

I have done testing now with Flight Gear, it is bit like Racer, loads of potential but not quite there. I think aircraft behaves very well most of times in this, but there is no damage model and something odd sometimes how aircraft behaves, did not tested with other physics models, just default one.

Must test more all of these, IL2 has rather nice damage model, also Aces High II had quite ok. Surely it is more fun to have aircraft loose parts instead of just stopping after failed stunt and I do fail a lot

Remember game called Stunt island? It had some nice obstacle courses :P Also would be nice to have railway tunnel to fly trough, well at least bridges, those are fun

In Flight Gear I did fly under golden gate with big jet plane (Boeing), after that made an loop and fly again under same bridge, something tells me that there was something funny, can't quite recall what that would be Well, maybe I try to slide sideways while doing that next time

I'd like to have a go at flight sims again but my old joystick is now an H shifter. Anybody got some advice on a good joystick to get preferably towards the budget end of the market. I'm not bothered by FF (TBH from my RL experience it's only a warning sign), I absolutely do not want a twist rudder thing like my current joystick had, totally unusable and annoying, ideally one that can be screwed to a table but that's not a major thing.

Quote from ajp71 :

I'd like to have a go at flight sims again but my old joystick is now an H shifter. Anybody got some advice on a good joystick to get preferably towards the budget end of the market. I'm not bothered by FF (TBH from my RL experience it's only a warning sign), I absolutely do not want a twist rudder thing like my current joystick had, totally unusable and annoying, ideally one that can be screwed to a table but that's not a major thing.

rather conflicting rquirements
considering that ch seems to be dead by now your only choice for a high quality not all in one joiystick is probably one from thrustmaster

Quote from Shotglass :

rather conflicting rquirements
considering that ch seems to be dead by now your only choice for a high quality not all in one joiystick is probably one from thrustmaster

Had a little look around found the Thrustmaster USB Joystick suprisingly cheaply. Found two others (about £6 cheaper because the other site inc. P+P) is the Thrustmaster worth the premium?

http://www.pixmania.co.uk/uk/u ... b-joystick.html?srcid=867
http://shop.gameplay.co.uk/web ... tarfighter_joystick_-_usb
http://shop.gameplay.co.uk/web ... itle=saitek_st30_joystick

The Saiteks I've seen on display in computer shops mostly seem to have fallen to bits so I'm kind of apprehensive about buying the cheapest of the cheap, what I'd like is something fairly simple that'll work for a few years of occasional use, there's no need for anything else just a stick firm base and a throttle will do me, dual throttle levers would be nice (to use for flaps) but the only one I could find was a Saitek and had the rudder twist.

Honestly paying a bit more for quality over something that'll be in the bin in a couple of months would be worth it, I noticed another of the Thrustmasters had twist with an optional lock is this possible on any of the others? I suppose the last option would be just to buy a cheapish one with a twist and drill a hole and put a pin through it to stop it rotating, I had a look and thought about doing it on my old stick before it started playing up

At least in my MS Sidewinder Precision 2 there is no lock for twist, stick is not too bad really, only that resistance to stick movement is not there at near centre area, but don't know if other sticks are any better on that, at least movements are rather exact so when you move stick to some position it is always same, not like with some cheap sticks where you move stick to some position and it is jumping somewhere near there.

I have used twist now as I have had no patience to put dfp pedals to combined yet, well usually I just end up to trouble when using rudder, I have not learned how to use it properly yet

Quote from ajp71 :

...

tbh i was thinking of something a "little" more expensive but still kinda cheap considering the quality

anyhow whats so bad about twisty sticks ? its not like youll twist them by accident

Quote from Shotglass :

tbh i was thinking of something a "little" more expensive but still kinda cheap considering the quality

anyhow whats so bad about twisty sticks ? its not like youll twist them by accident

I found the twist on my previous joystick (Logitech Wingman 3D) really awkward to use and after a few months of really light use it started to jump about the place and would not stay neutral. TBH if the current gen sticks are built better I could go for one with the twist. Are there certain brands to go for or to avoid, I quite like the sound of the Saitek Aviators twin throttles but given the price and past experience with the brand I sense I should avoid them.