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VXR to use Vectra in BTCC...
(51 posts, started )
Quote from mr_x :First of all... everyone has their own opinions on the Tourng Cars vs F1 debate, and I can see that you're expressing your own opinions.

Exactly, so saying "Bah, F1 whats that?" Wasn't really called for... Otherwise you'll get people with opposing opinions

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You'll find that drivers get punished fairly and equally. Rob Collard last season comes to mind after he had a bit of wreckless driving. Jason Plato has been called before the stewards alot of times, the one driver who doesn't get punished enough is Matt Neal... because he makes it look like the accident was the other drivers fault, when it was his.

I can clearly remember watching BTCC in the last couple of years where a particular French driver was on a wreck fest and nothing happened. I can remember plenty of times where this has happened. Was it Silverstone where Matt Neal was forced off the track and at the end of the race he sped up to catch who ever it was and slammed into there car on the slowing down lap?

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Anyway, "People who aren't into racing are attracted to it because of the smashing of cars." well I can tell you now, that's NOT the reason I love it so much (and you should know how much I love motorsport), I love it because it's close and very competitive. I certainly wouldn't call it banger racing, yes there's contact, but you get cars separated by a couple of centimeters that are all different shapes, performances etc, it's going to happen. I love the fact I can get close to the action. and it's unpredictable, absolutely no idea who's gonna win the next race.

Cars separated by a couple of centimetres doesn't have to constantly result in half spinning cars out or ramming up there rear end. Shows a lack of ability to judge the braking points. Watch any national level karting and you'll see kids from the age of 8 racing at 60mph bumper to bumper with minimal contact. Why? Because huge amounts of contact is punished. Google Video - Motors TV karting and you'll see racing with 5-6 karts seperated by cms and very minimal contact.

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When was the last time it cost under £20 to get into an F1 meeting?? when was the last time you could walk around the paddock between races at an F1 venue talking to drivers watching the teams at work??

That's a rather silly point, really. BTCC is cheap as it's not popular enough to justify a large ticket price nor has the facilties, which you are probably basing on Silverstones ticket prices which are one of the most expensive on the GP calendar. I can guarantee there are more people in the F1 paddock than the BTCC, doesn't mean it has free access. How would you fit everyone in the paddock? F1 is too high profile to allow that, lots of equipment would get stolen and drivers would constantly get harassed by people.

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the only reason why you think that move was 'fantastic' is because it only happens a couple of times a season.

Nope, was fantastic as he kept pushing against the odds from last on the grid. He set the move up perfectly and had a lot of balls to run a couple of centimetres apart at 180mph where the danger of clashing is far greater than in tin top cars.

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smacking the rear end around to overtake isn't the norm... not in the slightest, I can only remember 1 such incident last year, and the driver got penalised 30 seconds for it. Door handle to doorhandle racing is what you can expect from the BTCC, mainly because it's held on the tight British tracks. There's occasional unfair contact, but door rubbing has happened year upon year. I'd love to see you drive inches off someones rear bumper at 120mph and not hit them :P

Well I'll watch in anticipation for the first rounds of the BTCC to see if your right. I can almost guarantee Plato and co will ram the rear end of a few cars to get past. I've driven bumper to bumper with an average speed of 50mph, topping out at something like 70mph, maybe a little off that. No brake lights either, and out of 3 years I only ever spun one person and that was in the wet.

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You'll actually find alot of drivers do aspire to be there, Jason Plato has raced in the BTCC since 1997, Matt Neal has been racing in it for every year since 1992/93, if they didn't like it then how come they're still there? A few of the top drivers have been asked about WTCC drives (Jason Plato, Matt Neal, Colin Turkington, Tom Chilton), the reason why they don't go there, because the BTCC is properly run, not by the FIA who are there to destroy motorsport. If drivers didn't aspire to be there, then how come there's 27 cars confirmed for this season and no doubt more will join before the end.

I've never come across anyone aspire to reach the BTCC. Funny you should mention Chilton as I seem to remember him wanting to go to the DTM but that feel through and he ended up having to go back to the BTCC.

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I can guarentee that if you put F1 drivers in touring cars they really wouldn't do well at all. They'd be awful... hitting each other all the time and blaming it on someone else. (Nigel Mansell anyone?). Infact it's something I'd love to see just to see how bad they are without driving aids.

Considering for the majority of F1 drivers the first car they drove with electronic aids is an F1 car I think they'll be okay at handling what is really a low powered FWD (majority) car to what they are used to. I'd put money on an F1 driver being able to drive a BTCC car better than a BTCC driver could an F1 car.

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F1 = alienated things that shouldn't be called cars, electronic driving aids, several brake pedals, electronic gear changes, electronic this/that/other, driver just presses the pedals and turns in the direction they want to go, car does the rest.

Alienated? I think the look amazing and so do the general public since they attract the crowds from what I saw at the Autosport show. Several brake pedals? That's new. An F1 car is still hard to drive on the limit like any race car, even harder than most due to the high G Forces they have to put up with for an hour and a half.

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BTCC = real looking cars in race spec. 3 pedals, a gear leaver, a steering wheel, 4 wheels, an engine, and a bodyshell. The driver does all the work.

Matter of opinion really. To me BTCC cars don't look like race cars, they looked like Riced up street cars that I see on the road. Gear levaver? It's still sequential, only different is they have a little leaver to pull back and forwards over a paddle on a rocker. They are hardly doing much more work than a F1 drivers is, are they?

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BTCC is run by Alan Gow (and the MSA), he knows what's good for the BTCC and what isn't. He doesn't go making stupid decisions, he makes decisions that improve the racing and improve the spectacle while keeping it as accessable to the public now as it has ever been, if not improving it. And another great thing is, on the BTCC forum, Alan Gow has his own section where fans can ask him questions and he will answer them the best he can.

Doesn't make stupid decisions? I seem to remember there being a race to be as slow as possible to finish 10th. Then they brough in a lottery system. I wouldn't even want to particpate in a championship at club level with rules like that.

Quote :the main point is... everyone has their own opinion of what's good and what's not, people like Tourng Cars, people like F1. But to say that people who like touring cars aren't true fans of motorsport, shame on you.

No one did say that from what I can see. I've stated BTCC doesn't punish the destruction derby style of Plato etc because it also draws in the crowds of people who aren't particularly interested in good racing.

I know of people who go to the BTCC to watch the support races and see some class drivers who have potential to move onto better things. How many drivers move onto better things in the BTCC? Thompson and Yvan don't seem to be getting on hugely well in the WTCC.

I'll got out of my way to watch F1, GP2, MotoGP and WRC.
Motors TV have been playing a lot of BTCC from the early 90s recenly. THAT was good racing, Volvos vs Mondeos and Astras.
Keiran your arguments that the BTCC is full of second-rate drivers is a little weak.
I agree there are a few that are just rich old men paying for a drive but there are some VERY good drivers in the BTCC.
Look at Fabrizio Giovanardi, he is one of the most successful Touring Car drivers ever and he isn't exactly bloeing everyone away... as we should expect if what you say is true.
Yvan Muller is certainly one of the most talented drivers in the World. He had a bad year last year, for a number of reasons, nothing to do with the competition of the WTCC.
Thompson was very fast last season and even won a round of the championship.
All the top guys in the BTCC are well capable of winning in the WTCC (or any other series) if given the chance.
You sound like a typical "arm-chair" supporter... Think you know everything when really you know very little (i meant that in the nicest possible way).

There's nothing wrong with a little bump and push here or there. It's part of racing. The only reason Schumacher or Kimi dont do it in their F1 cars is because they would break a front wing etc... If they could do it they would!

Personally i prefere Touring car racing. It's a LOT closer... more overtaking, generally more action.
I usually fall asleep in the middle of a F1 GP and wake up in time for the end. The 2 most exciting times of a F1 GP are the first 5 laps and the last 2 laps. The bits in the middle are rubbish (most of the time).
Also from a drivers point of view a touring car is much more fun to race than a single seater.

Please remember driving a kart is completely different to a car.... you made some comment about driving centimeters from some and never hitting them... well its not that easy to do in a big car.... Plato is a dirty driver, so what? He will be punished and has been in the past for hitting people on purpose. Remeber last season (or was it the season before?), henearly lost his licence for 6 months.
94 and 96 were the best seasons for me
#30 - MR_B
98 and 99 for me.... Go Rydell
#31 - mr_x
1998 and 2004 for me! :P
I would have to say the year Matt Neal won his 1st race... I think it was 1999
Quote from ATC Quicksilver :Door banging and rubbing is one thing, Jason Plato and his pals inability to pass without half spinning out the car infront is totally different. The standard of driving has dropped significantly since the early 90s.

Hopefully they will get their act together and learn to be a bit more patient, you can rub doors without turning it into banger racing.

Oh and the Vectra looks crap, my favourite ever BTCC cars were the old Audis and Volvos.

Hmm, early 90's eh? Does Silverstone Finale 1992 ring a bell?

Charlie Cox is a wonderful commentator, I have that whole BTCC Master's race on VHS, lol.

Cheers,
Matt.
#34 - mr_x
Quote from ATC Quicksilver :Door banging and rubbing is one thing, Jason Plato and his pals inability to pass without half spinning out the car infront is totally different. The standard of driving has dropped significantly since the early 90s.

I hope you watched the Thruxton races today, especially the 3rd race when 7 or 8 cars when into the last chicane side by side, with minimal contact and none of them fell off!

Thruxton today has definately been the best races of this season so far...

Roll on Croft! (which is the circuit I'm going to this year! )
was watching it on setana sports 2 - shows all the support races aswell, there was an awesome crash on the 2nd or so turn in the porsche cup, rolled a few times and flew over the barrier
hmm i don't understand why seat even entered this event cause from what ive seen first hand there cars are worse then Americas reasons for going to war

hope honda put out a decent accord/civic to enter tho i think i nissan sold the sentra or made a the premira rwd it would beat everyone.


also don't forget the opel vectra is made for low rev tourqe so it will be interesting to see it on straights but id say with even a retarded driver will beat anything on the corners in that lump o junk :P
Quote from theirishnoob :hmm i don't understand why seat even entered this event cause from what ive seen first hand there cars are worse then Americas reasons for going to war

hope honda put out a decent accord/civic to enter tho i think i nissan sold the sentra or made a the premira rwd it would beat everyone.


also don't forget the opel vectra is made for low rev tourqe so it will be interesting to see it on straights but id say with even a retarded driver will beat anything on the corners in that lump o junk :P

Errr... were you watching the same BTCC as the rest of us?
The SEAT is a great car! It's the best "all rounder".

The Honda also isn't a bad car, just needs a little work, i'm sure later in the season it will be winning more races. Nissan aren't in the BTCC, if they were they couldn't enter a RWD Primera because it wouldn't be homoligated.

The Vectra isn't made for low rev torque... maybe the road car is but the racing car sure isn't. VXR have done a good job on the Vectra compared to the Astra last year, it seems a lot more stable. Giovanardi is mega though, he drove 2 great races! I dont rate Chilton at all....
#39 - mr_x
Quote from nikimere :Errr... were you watching the same BTCC as the rest of us?
The SEAT is a great car! It's the best "all rounder".

The Honda also isn't a bad car, just needs a little work, i'm sure later in the season it will be winning more races. Nissan aren't in the BTCC, if they were they couldn't enter a RWD Primera because it wouldn't be homoligated.

The Vectra isn't made for low rev torque... maybe the road car is but the racing car sure isn't. VXR have done a good job on the Vectra compared to the Astra last year, it seems a lot more stable. Giovanardi is mega though, he drove 2 great races! I dont rate Chilton at all....

I was thinking the same as all of that, but I had to go out so didn't have time to reply to it.

Chilton is a good racer, but I really don't think he fits into the VXR team too well. I remember when he was in the Civic he was fairly quick.

Plato is still my favourite for the championship this year though
Quote from mr_x :I was thinking the same as all of that, but I had to go out so didn't have time to reply to it.

Chilton is a good racer, but I really don't think he fits into the VXR team too well. I remember when he was in the Civic he was fairly quick.

Plato is still my favourite for the championship this year though

Well, I think he watched the WTCC that also raced on this weekend thro? In WTCC, the Seats are worse than the BMWs and are struggling so much.

However, in BTCC it's a different story. Look at Jason Plato winning Race 3 with even 45kg handicapped. But o yea, this race Mike Jordan should be the star. Driving in the independent cup and pushing his Integra Type R to the limit. That's just no luck for him in the race 1 at the last lap while he got a puncture.
hmm i think the vectra stands a good chance but it has to be said , if that bmw wasn't diesel it would smoke the competition , no doubts about it
your name suits you, as you certainly do not have a clue
#43 - mr_x
Quote from theirishnoob :hmm i think the vectra stands a good chance but it has to be said , if that bmw wasn't diesel it would smoke the competition , no doubts about it

urm... dunno what planet you're on but the BMW is most definately exactly the same as the 'works' 2007 BMWs in the WTCC, no difference in them at all apart from the paintwork, and they aren't run as a 'works' team.

Problem is they are suited to the WTCC circuits which are generally very wide, but on the British circuits they demand a much better car chasis/handling wise, which is why the Seat and Vauxhall are miles ahead of BMW right now due to the fact they are 'works' cars which have been adapted/optomised/developed for the British tracks.
after viewing a few youtube videos posted earlier on this thread I would have to say I have lost any respect I had for jason plato as a racing driver.

Absolutely appauling driving & poor sportsmanship. Respect for Plato = Zero
#45 - mr_x
Quote from anttt69 :after viewing a few youtube videos posted earlier on this thread I would have to say I have lost any respect I had for jason plato as a racing driver.

Absolutely appauling driving & poor sportsmanship. Respect for Plato = Zero

His driving this year so far has been top notch, he's not put a foot wrong and has been firm but fair... Yeah he has his fair share of hits and bumps in the past, if he sees a gap he'll go for it, if no one did it then BTCC would be like F1.

for me Plato has been my favourite driver in the 10 years I watched BTCC (since 97 - Plato's first year), and off the track he's a top bloke too!
Yup, him and Menu in the Laguna class team imo
#47 - DeKo
i personally think plato is a well better driver than Matt Neal anyway, he just seems a bit of a dick, always goes for gaps that arent there, either rams people off or gets forced off because there wasnt a gap and always blames the other guy, and every fan laps it up and declares plato the devil
#48 - mr_x
Quote from DeKo :i personally think plato is a well better driver than Matt Neal anyway, he just seems a bit of a dick, always goes for gaps that arent there, either rams people off or gets forced off because there wasnt a gap and always blames the other guy, and every fan laps it up and declares plato the devil

Exactly.

I used to like Matt Neal, but then he started blaming others for accidents that either he caused or that were clearly racing incidents. Plus since he won his first championship 2 years ago he's become quite arrogent. Him and team Dynamics aren't the approachable team they were in the 90s if you wanted photos taking close up of the cars.

I remember last season or season before Jason Plato took a pram of toys to the Team Dynamics garage because TD were complaining about stupid little things that happened, it had Steve Neal fuming! i was peeing myself laughing when i first heard about that. and from the man himself, it wasn't a publicity stunt either!
Quote from theirishnoob :hmm i think the vectra stands a good chance but it has to be said , if that bmw wasn't diesel it would smoke the competition , no doubts about it

I think your overdue some reading... www.btcc.net

VXR to use Vectra in BTCC...
(51 posts, started )
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