Quote from ajp71 :

I found the twist on my previous joystick (Logitech Wingman 3D) really awkward to use and after a few months of really light use it started to jump about the place and would not stay neutral. TBH if the current gen sticks are built better I could go for one with the twist. Are there certain brands to go for or to avoid, I quite like the sound of the Saitek Aviators twin throttles but given the price and past experience with the brand I sense I should avoid them.

I would say that avoid Saitek by all cost, they do make quite rubbish mostly. Logitech has good products in wheels, but I have no idea about sticks, actually I don't know what to recommend except if you get same what I use for few £ that might be one to try, but wouldn't pay 15£.

Maybe this?

Quote from JTbo :

I would say that avoid Saitek by all cost, they do make quite rubbish mostly.

* hides his Saitek Rumble Force Joystick


I have to admit that the Saitek Joystick I own isnt really great, they way it is designed to center is self is really stupid and takes away its precision. It is very difficult to just make a slight bank whilst in flight due to this annoyingly stupid system. Rumble though is quite good and there are plenty of buttons to satisfy my fingers. (Observe attachment)

The plastic bit with the spring that actually forces the stick back to its center causes too much friction when you are trying to make small adjustments which is what takes away the precision. I have resorted to actually oiling the area where plastic spring bit meets base plastic and this has given me a much more smoother movement bit I am thinking of removing that spring altogether...

It was really cheap so I can't really complain too much, for the amaunt of flying i do its not tooo shabby

mad

I wouldn't recommend anything that you can't take apart and clean, or rebuild. I'd seriously recommend putting a few hours of work into making one yourself... that way you're sure it will actually work, and last.
I would recommend CH products, because a lot of people in the combat flight sim community swear by their durability, and quality (they are in fact very very smooth and precise), but I've had the misfortune of buying an exceptionaly flaky stick... but other than the pots going bad, I'd litteraly forget it was in my hands when flying.

Quote from ajp71 :

I found the twist on my previous joystick (Logitech Wingman 3D) really awkward to use and after a few months of really light use it started to jump about the place and would not stay neutral. TBH if the current gen sticks are built better I could go for one with the twist.

my 3d pro is probably older than that logitech one (logitech sticks are rubbish btw) and i never found the twist a problem and never accidentally twisted the stick ie the center is strong enough to make it feel like a non twisty stick unless you actually want to twist it
the later precission something stick from microsoft was a lot worse in every single aspect other than ergonomics though
actually come to think of it if you can get a 3d pro in good nick on ebay its a really decent joystick

Quote from Breizh :

I would recommend CH products, because a lot of people in the combat flight sim community swear by their durability, and quality (they are in fact very very smooth and precise), but I've had the misfortune of buying an exceptionaly flaky stick... but other than the pots going bad, I'd litteraly forget it was in my hands when flying.

ch is really good but are they still producing joysticks ? i couldnt find a store that has them in stock

oh yes LOMAC is a very good game! i play it daily with the squadron im in (20 ppl give nice formation flights )

basicaly THE ONLY RUSSIAN GAME THAT MADE RUSSIAN GAMERS PROUD TO BE RUSSIANS! beautiful game...

Think I'll go for this one:

http://shop.gameplay.co.uk/web ... un_afterburner_2_joystick

Does everything I need and hopefully it'll last.

ajp - Don't overuse it..

Shotglass - They do:
http://www.chproducts.com/retail/index.html
http://www.chproducts.com/retail/world.html
I bought mine for cheaper than their prices, but I don't remember where.. it might have been from a price index site like pricewatch.com.

Quote from ajp71 :

Think I'll go for this one:

That actually looks pretty good, and is resonably priced too. Do let us know how it performs as I am thinking of investing in some hi-tech flight hardware

mad

Hmm, with all this flight simming talk, we should do an off-topic flight sim session, hehe. Unfortunately, it seems that everyone has a different preference or has purchased a different flight sim...

I'm not all into flight simming like I am LFS/racing. So, FS9 works just fine for me.

Most of TM's sticks these days are garbage. A few years ago, I bought the USB one without FF, and 2 months later, the throttle slider broke. 6 months later, the trigger switch broke. I then went back to my TM F-16 FLCS, made in 1995. The pots are a little worn out these days, the second stage of the trigger no longer works, and only the trigger and thumb button are usable, but it's built like a tank.

TM has a "new" (been out for a while now) stick that's pretty expensive but from what I understand is essentially an evolution of the F-16 FLCS that I have. It also comes with a throttle. It's even all metal, not plastic.

http://www.thrustmaster.com/pr ... uctID=11&PlatformID=5

As for flight sims, IL2 was always one of my favorites. As Breizh mentioned, it does have some low speed bugs, but otherwise it's a fantastic sim.

X-Plane is pretty decent for non-combat flying.

Yep, Il2 has fantastic immersion if you don't mind its few faults.. I don't play it for now because I don't have a fast enough PC, but friends of mine have some really great tales about the ongoing war servers.. Forgotten skies is the name.
The Russian planes in Il2 are a bit tweaked , but that doesn't detract from the great fighting you get.

I was going to say, Thrustmaster are a bit junky, but ajp already bought it before I could say anything.
Another duly well-renowned brand is Cougar, if you can afford it. Good flight sim gear is just pricey.

Quote from Breizh :

I was going to say, Thrustmaster are a bit junky, but ajp already bought it before I could say anything.
Another duly well-renowned brand is Cougar, if you can afford it. Good flight sim gear is just pricey.

I've not bought anything yet But am looking for a joystick for under £40 so expensive brands have to be ruled out. From what I've gathered the Thrustmasters are about the best quality joysticks in this range and the Saiteks are amoung the worse.

According to a survey at LockOn Files...Saitek is by far the most popular stick amongst combat flight sim fans

Hmm.. yeah that is quite odd, personally i find its a pretty good stick if the centering was done differently. I find the rumble force is wicked especially when ur firing the cannons in il2..

Ajp, there was a Microsoft stick a few years ago that was almost perfect...I don't remember the name, but it was in your price range.
I could find out which one it was if you give me a day or two?

I haven't looked in person at sticks for three years now, but I am sure that back then, the TMs of that price range were not something you could rely on for more than a year. Neither were the Saiteks, what I mean is neither were that much better than the other, all things considered.
I guess you'll best try them on and see for yourself.. I'll let you know about that MS stick. People in the flight sim community were after them on ebay, so I would recommend trying to find one, at least to try.

Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2? if so, they work quite well, i have one

Quote from Breizh :

Ajp, there was a Microsoft stick a few years ago that was almost perfect...I don't remember the name, but it was in your price range.

this one: http://www.sunstorm.com/ceo/reviews/3dpro-1.gif cheap ... good center ... and works well even after hours of descent 3 online abuse (anybody who played it in multiplayer will know what im on about)

Shotglass, I don't know MS sticks at all, and all I see is 3dPro in that pic's filename .. but the one I mentionned is the Sidewinder Precision Pro. I'm told the Precision Pro 2's are just as good.
Try em out if you find em Ajp.

Quote from Breizh :

Shotglass, I don't know MS sticks at all, and all I see is 3dPro in that pic's filename .. but the one I mentionned is the Sidewinder Precision Pro. I'm told the Precision Pro 2's are just as good.
Try em out if you find em Ajp.

both of those are rubbish imho ... almost no centre at all

Out of the current joysticks in my range (I don't have the time to keep seeing if used bargins come up on ebay) would the Thrustmaster be a sensible choice? The only other thing that I'd like if possible would be proper trimming of the elevator but only CH sticks seem to have it.

Quote from Breizh :

Shotglass, I don't know MS sticks at all, and all I see is 3dPro in that pic's filename .. but the one I mentionned is the Sidewinder Precision Pro. I'm told the Precision Pro 2's are just as good.
Try em out if you find em Ajp.

Precision Pro 2 is what I have, just saw some document about space flights and how private companies have developing own ships at one part there was some simulation done and they used Precision Pro 2 too, can't be bad then lol. Anyway I still don't like how centering is done, near center no resistance and then resistance starts when you push more, of course you can adjust from sim so that that center loose won't be recognized by sim at all. But sure stick center area feels like some really worn out gear stick linkage, there is somewhat plenty of empty movement at centre area, if there would not be that it would be really good.

I used it as a clutch pedal once, but was not too good for that, at least it is nearly impossible to destroy by any normal usage.

There were some in ebay uk, price was quite small, under 5 from some, some were ridiculously over priced when I looked, but shop around a bit if that is what you will like to try out.

Twisting is not possible to do by accident as you need to really twist and you can feel when you are doing it, again you can set from sim how much you have to turn.

I don't know about calibration or such, never done never need, it just works

Shotglass, I haven't tried those sticks for myself, so I can only repeat what many people in the combat flight sim community said, a number of them the very best players... Unlike most other joysticks, I remembered them because they never seemed to get any complaints.
It seemed like a meaningful statistic, as like you've said, most joysticks in the entry price range just don't last very long if you use them regularly.

I still recommend Ajp try one out, although he probably won't.. I don't know about TM's first-hand Ajp, sorry.

JTbo, I guess you can only build a joystick to be so good, if it is to cost only so much.
Even my CH stick had more deadzone than I liked.. I haven't tried the Cougar, but I bet it is only at that price range that you find joysticks made with that much precision.. and it's why I really recommend making your own
Take apart a cheap joystick's internals, and build it a correct shell.

I just went and bought a Logitech Attack 3, seems more like what I wanted from the start TBH, loads of buttons, a throttle and no twist. Going to try it now.

As for sims is Flight Sim X any good, I had 2002, is there really a big difference? I've also never really been quite happy with the physics in it either.

Quote from Breizh :

Shotglass, I haven't tried those sticks for myself, so I can only repeat what many people in the combat flight sim community said, a number of them the very best players... Unlike most other joysticks, I remembered them because they never seemed to get any complaints.
It seemed like a meaningful statistic, as like you've said, most joysticks in the entry price range just don't last very long if you use them regularly.

dont get me wrong they are indeed very good joysticks and some of the very first that didnt use pots to poll the position so chances are theyll never fail or at least not any time soon ... plus they dont have any deadzone (which can be quite annoying actually if the centre wears out just a little)
actually pretty much all of the sidewinder series is top notch and way above logitech
but the non ffb ones have a very soft centre imho which you can hardly feel at all and the 3d pro is a lot better in this regard
but then again i might be a bit odd in liking the stupidly strong springs on thrustmaster top of the line joysticks

Quote from ajp71 :

As for sims is Flight Sim X any good, I had 2002, is there really a big difference? I've also never really been quite happy with the physics in it either.

didnt strike me as particularly good ... and considering youre a lfs player you might want to look into x-plane ... its sort of to flight sims what lfs is to racing sims