Jodge your complaints here
in detail

Judge*, well there was a big pile up in lap 1 just after the split! I was involved but as a back marker came through after it happened, might have touched one or two people wile weaving through the carnage

If your teammate doesnt know the rules before the race, tell them on teamspeak or shut up during the race. It's your own mistake, live with it. plz dont start chatting away during the race, it is awefully distracting and clearly stated in the rules as not being allowed.

Quote from lococost :

If your teammate doesnt know the rules before the race, tell them on teamspeak or shut up during the race. It's your own mistake, live with it. plz dont start chatting away during the race, it is awefully distracting and clearly stated in the rules as not being allowed.

Sorry, he was put in the role on last moment (so was I) and was also his first ever league race! He didnt know he could do it, sorry for the minimal chat

I wrote mine in http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=364022#post364022 because it has to do with rules rather than any particular incident.

"Round 6 was my first race in BoTT so it may be a tad too late since so many races have been driven, but I'm still wondering... why is there no ruling towards drivers who gain an advantage after driving into another car?

I saw several ppl trying to push their way up in a bad way - my guess is this happens because there is no rules (with penalty) against it, so ppl get careless.

It becomes pointless when the guy behind you ignores your move and the track situation as well as the fact that he will probably cause an accident because of him not being observant and careful enough :|

Not referring to my incident alone, but in general - watch the replay - most of the incidents should easily have been avoided."

I thought that Powerslave and R4pat both braked way to late to make the corner, if you look at the Ariel view and look at Scipy you can see how much later the pair of them braked, should really have been earlier taking such a tight line into the corner. Pretty aggressive defencive move for the opening laps though.

Still 2 mins with the incident I had with Norbi, I left him pleanty of room on the inside but was given none of the exit and was pushed onto the grass, so out of sheer mutual respect I just kept my car on the inside even though it would have been easier and safer to ease off, it's no where near impossible to get 2 cars through there side by side.

Quote from Bawbag :

I thought that Powerslave and R4pat both braked way to late to make the corner, if you look at the Ariel view and look at Scipy you can see how much later the pair of them braked, should really have been earlier taking such a tight line into the corner. Pretty aggressive defencive move for the opening laps though.

Meh?! How can you possibly say that when Powerslave had enough room, and I in no way tried to get in his way? I held my line, yes... plz tell me where it says the front driver have to make room for someone who is behind his car - except for blue flags :P

Edit: In fact, he did have room

Looked to me like a noobcake mistake and nothing more than a racing incident. Bawbag wrecking norbi however, lol

What does Powerslave and you having room have anything to do with how late you both braked into the corner?

Btw, I never said it was wrong what you done, just pretty silly to do so early on as all it would do is give the drivers behind a chance to overtake and the guys ahead to pull away while you were both crawling around on the inside.

Also, you said you "in no way tried to get in his way" so you mean this was your normal line that you drove for the 50 laps? Please if you have some secret faster lines, share with us.

Yea I on purposely knew that Norbi wasn't expecting me to still be on his inside and take the inside line, good definition of wreck.

Quote from Bawbag :

What does Powerslave and you having room have anything to do with how late you both braked into the corner?

Why is the braking even an issue? Can you magically see I wouldn't have made the hairpin properly? I was confident that I could have made the hairpin @ safe speed and I stick to that - anyone with other beliefs should feel free to do some tests with similar speed and braking point to see how realistic it really is. But other than that, I really can't take speculations seriously.

Quote from Bawbag :

Btw, I never said it was wrong what you done, just pretty silly to do so early on as all it would do is give the drivers behind a chance to overtake and the guys ahead to pull away while you were both crawling around on the inside.

Silly, sure.. most incidents seems silly when sitting back and just watching them - not to mention with all the various angles we can chose from.

Quote from Bawbag :

Also, you said you "in no way tried to get in his way" so you mean this was your normal line that you drove for the 50 laps? Please if you have some secret faster lines, share with us.

I held that line because I suspected someone may be lurking in my blind spot because of my low T2 speed - someone was in fact lurking in my blind spot, but on the opposite side :P By then time I noticed him, he already had room to go beside me.

And before you begin, yes - I could have seen him during T2 exit, but I didn't.. which is exactly why I was careful about not being all over the road.

Quote from r4ptor :

Quote from bawbag :

Btw, I never said it was wrong what you done, just pretty silly to do so early on as all it would do is give the drivers behind a chance to overtake and the guys ahead to pull away while you were both crawling around on the inside.

Silly, sure.. most incidents seems silly when sitting back and just watching them - not to mention with all the various angles we can chose from.

Your saying that to someone was given a stop-go after a chain reaction caused by the leading car hitting the brakes 2 seconds after the race had started on a rolling-start! That was in MoE too, where you expect a better standard of driver (certainly from pole-sitter anyway) and instead they're braking 3 distinct rules in 6 seconds and getting away with it unpunished while someone caught up gets punished because of other peoples actions and could do nothing about it (he moved to the left side and fractions of a second AFTER he started moving left into space the car on that side had to brake because of the pole numpty braking midway down the straight!)

Sometimes your going to get screwed over and it seems your forced to accept it, whether its right or blatently wrong.

Quote from r4ptor :

Why is the braking even an issue? Can you magically see I wouldn't have made the hairpin properly? I was confident that I could have made the hairpin @ safe speed and I stick to that - anyone with other beliefs should feel free to do some tests with similar speed and braking point to see how realistic it really is. But other than that, I really can't take speculations seriously.



Silly, sure.. most incidents seems silly when sitting back and just watching them - not to mention with all the various angles we can chose from.



I held that line because I suspected someone may be lurking in my blind spot because of my low T2 speed - someone was in fact lurking in my blind spot, but on the opposite side :P By then time I noticed him, he already had room to go beside me.

And before you begin, yes - I could have seen him during T2 exit, but I didn't.. which is exactly why I was careful about not being all over the road.

Ahh, i'm sorry, I thought you were actually blocking Powerslave, quite a tight line to take for 1 car behing on your outside though, but ok.

As for the braking, look at it from Scipys ariel view, he brakes like everyone else then you and Pwrslave come flying in out of nowhere, if that's not brakig late then I don't know what is.

Well the reason i braked so late is that i was inside and really couldnt go anywhere; when u take regular line there u take much greater speed through the hairpin. I knew that i was gonna have to take a very tight line and loose much of position, thus braking even sooner was not on my mind as i would have to take that line despite what. And somehow i had a feeling if i was gonan brake sooner raptor would put himself infront of me anyway so we'd both be it the same crapy situation. from replay you can see nice that if it werent for contact in the turn i would have easily made that turn on the inside and nobody would get hurt. Unfortenetly it was not the case and im mostly sorry for my teammate who got into this situation for nothing. Still if it has to be so, im gladly gona take any penalty wich might accour, but in future mind my sexy car on track as i will most defenitly not gonan give no room for someone who thinks he owns the road.

Quote from PaulC2K :

Your saying that to someone was given a stop-go after a chain reaction caused by the leading car hitting the brakes 2 seconds after the race had started on a rolling-start! That was in MoE too....

I'm fully aware of that incident, but it hardly have anything to do with BoTT round 6 incident - biggest difference is that my braking can be proved that it wasn't too late.

Quote from PaulC2K :

Sometimes your going to get screwed over and it seems your forced to accept it, whether its right or blatently wrong.

Yes, when it's hard to prove otherwise - in this case it isn't.

Ok well, this is what i'm on about.

http://img266.imageshack.us/im ... fs2007031916010868yo9.jpg
http://img45.imageshack.us/img ... fs2007031916010935tg5.jpg
http://img45.imageshack.us/img ... fs2007031916011159mp1.jpg
http://img266.imageshack.us/im ... fs2007031916011390ka6.jpg
http://img407.imageshack.us/im ... fs2007031916011803sf2.jpg

Clearly you both braked to late especcially with the line you had into the corner, as you really should have braked a good bit earlier in order to make the corner safely, not later than the car with the optimal line.

The next couple are of when you both started braking compared to Scipy, surely you can see that you braked way to late especcially for being on the inside?

http://img337.imageshack.us/im ... fs2007031916170389eb8.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/im ... fs2007031916141654bv5.jpg

Quote from PwrSlave :

but in future mind my sexy car on track as i will most defenitly not gonan give no room for someone who thinks he owns the road.

When it's comming from a guy who isn't able to judge how much space he actually has, then all I can say is: LOL.

Do you also expect ppl to let you pass when you are fighting for position?

Quote from Bawbag :

Yea I on purposely knew that Norbi wasn't expecting me to still be on his inside and take the inside line, good definition of wreck.

Now come on! I really didn't want to write anything cause I just don't care, that's the reason I left on the first place but this is just enough.
Have you even looked at the replay to see what have you done?
You WEREN'T EVEN LIFTING OF THE THROTTLE on the entry of that turn until the very moment when you hit me. You like missed the entry point and your car was clearly aiming toward the outside of the corner, toward me. Even if I'm not there you would have missed the apex big time. Not to mention that you were like 10 cms besides and you only caught up to my rear wheel with your front because I lifted off for the turn, which you would have NEEDED to do too, if your intention was to keep the inside line, but I have to say that I really don't think thats the case.

Here's a shot of r4ptor pulling to the left and trying to block power, however it was too late to pull the move off and it resulted in the collision. Just too slow through thats ection and power easily caught up and had the move until this late attempt.



Here is what Norbi is talking about and what I saw as well when I watched the replay. There wasn't enough overlap if any at all to pull this move off and no way that corner could be taken on that line without running into Norbi. You can still see the go pedal is firmly planted.

Quote from Davo :

Here's a shot of r4ptor pulling to the left and trying to block power, however it was too late to pull the move off and it resulted in the collision. Just too slow through thats ection and power easily caught up and had the move until this late attempt.

Did you even watch what I was actually doing??

Watch the replay again in my cockpit view, and you'll see me contra steering while the car begins pointing towards left.

Regarding braking:
http://www.digital-ray.dk/LFS/braking.zip

Different sprs showing virtually same thing, although I varied the turn approach to illustrate most crowded case scenario (Powerslave on my side during the hairpin, while still having room for his teammate) - of cause cant replicate same situation to exact detail when being alone on the track.

But they do show braking wasn't "too" late - my speed is in some sprs a tad faster and braking happens later.

But Powerslave being faster or not, he wasn't well enough up on my side and therefor should have backed off a such a late point.

Edit: Oh, in the replays I'm starting off with 100% fuel and same setup. If you can prove otherwise, then feel free to have Scawen ban me from LFS.

Quote from Norbi :

Now come on! I really didn't want to write anything cause I just don't care, that's the reason I left on the first place but this is just enough.
Have you even looked at the replay to see what have you done?
You WEREN'T EVEN LIFTING OF THE THROTTLE on the entry of that turn until the very moment when you hit me. You like missed the entry point and your car was clearly aiming toward the outside of the corner, toward me. Even if I'm not there you would have missed the apex big time. Not to mention that you were like 10 cms besides and you only caught up to my rear wheel with your front because I lifted off for the turn, which you would have NEEDED to do too, if your intention was to keep the inside line, but I have to say that I really don't think thats the case.

I didn't lift on the entry because I knew for a fact that I would have to let off mid corner to make way for 2 cars and in that pic Davo posted and in the replay i'm easily aiming for the apex of the corner.

I know that I should have let off being only slightly alongside BUT I lost a good amount of speed when you pushed me onto the grass so I didn't. I'm sure you wouldn't let go of a position so easily when your opponent has just disadvantaged you when they very easily could have left you the room you deserved.

See attached:
Top @ 41:47
middle @ 40:48
Buttom @ 39:47

That a strange block, isn't it?

I said before that I turned away from Powerslave ones first contact was made - screenies shows that. But how much more room did he need? Theres more than enough.

Quote from r4ptor :

See attached:
Top @ 41:47
middle @ 40:48
Buttom @ 39:47

That a strange block, isn't it?

I said before that I turned away from Powerslave ones first contact was made - screenies shows that. But how much more room did he need? Theres more than enough.

I agree with the clown, not much of a block

While you children argue, how about points Fusion Sparrow?
Its all rather out of date

Edit: 800th post

Quote from Bawbag :

I didn't lift on the entry because I knew for a fact that I would have to let off mid corner to make way for 2 cars and in that pic Davo posted and in the replay i'm easily aiming for the apex of the corner.

I know that I should have let off being only slightly alongside BUT I lost a good amount of speed when you pushed me onto the grass so I didn't. I'm sure you wouldn't let go of a position so easily when your opponent has just disadvantaged you when they very easily could have left you the room you deserved.

Yeah, your wheel certainly is aiming for the apex, but you know the car most of the time don't goes that way when you are going 190.
Just say you wanted to get revenge for the turn before and we are done here.

@Raptor:

Well the way i see the current situation is next: You think that i'm a noob and i think that you are a noob; so we both prolly right. I wont take this problem any further couse i dont have the energy for all this Sh**t.

As i said before, if there is some rule there or if it is gonna to be implemented, i'm gonna gladly take the penalty if i am to blame for that incident. Even though i know im not, i can take it. That was it form me. Take care, drive safe and cya next time.

ah.. i just wanted to see what all the hype was about.. basicly, in general, u clownpaint guys are what is refered to as: blockers. meaning an unfair driver who will change his line multiple times, try to overtake even tough he's pitting in the next lap and so on.

what happened here is, u raptor, went wide trough the chicane, pwr caught up, u (bold, underline) DIDN'T leave room for him on the inside, and u both ****ed me up beautifully.

my leetness cannot be bothered to look at this thread ever again, so no reason to reply.

p.s. if u were anything but a poor excuse of a driver, u would have come to irc after the race, and apologized for what u did. as i have done some times when i made a mistake.