Delerue: You got some valid points. But so do some of the others here. If you are not even willing to accept that some of your points are rightly criticized, there is not much sense in discussing them with you.
We need to all chill out a bit here.
The game is unfinished. Everyone knows what needs doing, the community is expecting that most of the bugs you mention will be gone by the time the game is S2 final.
You say you dont care about the Devs and the work they have put in, well most of us in the community happen to actually care. So you come in here dismissing them against the likes of EA then you willl get some resistance from the community.
We have built up a respect for these people and their efforts over the years so thats why we protect the game and the devs where we can.
Also, LFS is cheaper than most games in most countries. Because the devs are mostly based in the UK then they have to sell the game in conversions of UK currency, which doesnt always work out better in some cases. There are plenty of Brazilian S2 licensed racers about so it cant be all that expensive.
You want to take a little time out before criticising people you dont know much about, also a subject I'll assume you dont know much about (the subject of coding a game from scratch without big-name help).
If you feel this game is too unfinished to pay for, then simple as this - go and play something else and STFU for a while. Plenty of people disagree with you and will continue to play the game and provide clear constructive criticism back to the devs to help get the game finished.
The game is unfinished. Everyone knows what needs doing, the community is expecting that most of the bugs you mention will be gone by the time the game is S2 final.
You say you dont care about the Devs and the work they have put in, well most of us in the community happen to actually care. So you come in here dismissing them against the likes of EA then you willl get some resistance from the community.
We have built up a respect for these people and their efforts over the years so thats why we protect the game and the devs where we can.
Also, LFS is cheaper than most games in most countries. Because the devs are mostly based in the UK then they have to sell the game in conversions of UK currency, which doesnt always work out better in some cases. There are plenty of Brazilian S2 licensed racers about so it cant be all that expensive.
You want to take a little time out before criticising people you dont know much about, also a subject I'll assume you dont know much about (the subject of coding a game from scratch without big-name help).
If you feel this game is too unfinished to pay for, then simple as this - go and play something else and STFU for a while. Plenty of people disagree with you and will continue to play the game and provide clear constructive criticism back to the devs to help get the game finished.
Graphics: Fair game, that's pretty much a moot point. If you like oversaturated graphics plastered with DX9 effects then those games look better than LFS. Personally, I don't think so.
Sounds: Yeah, GTR & Co. really win here, although LFS gives more feedback what the engine does.
Force Feedback & Physics: Ok. If you really think that the FF or the physics of GTR & Co. are better and more believable, you really shouldn't play LFS. The first time I played one of those demos I immediately noticed the canned ISI engine. For a canned engine, the results are pretty good (for the casual gamer) but they are still canned.
Just play the NK demo. Or Richard Burns Rallye. Or LFS.
All of these have believable physics with believable reactions to your inputs. You immediately feel connected to the road. You feel like driving a vehicle. If you play any ISI game, then you feel like driving... no floating with a box of data curves.
People, you have told him what has happened to the devs, hes acknowledge that, so lets just move on? Anything from here on is going to be pure flaming at each other. Let him have his own opinion on the game. We all look at games in diffrent POV's.
Amen to that ButterTyres!
That may be, but he keeps coming back for more
excuse me? you have both microbumps and normal bumps. just play southcity. if u cant feel them in there, then the problem is on your side not in lfs. also lfs ff comes from physics 100%. just like the realtime tyre deformation (visually reduced to what the poly detail can show).
lfs tyre physics are simply the most advanced (by far) of any sim out there. 200 sampling points for rubber per car.
thats not saying all data it outputs is milimetrically correct yet. but good things aint easy and progress will go on. continuously. this is a wip game. wip deved and wip played. wip stands for work in progress. support in this game is better than in multimillion dollar games.
agora vai preparar umas caipirinhas com uma boa cachaça e muita lima pra nós dois, the baile funk is just starting.
Well it's just that he is trying to find some gap to criticize the game in a manner that we had all seen before, but you gonna do eh? wake the dev up and point a gun into their head and force them to work? LFS will be short in terms of overall packaging and holistic presentation because of it's nature of development, but not the devs being lazy, if you can't acknowledge that or you don't care, then don't be bothered about updates and patches....you might drop by 2 years later and see if S3 is out, if only the game itself in the final stage is what you will buy and will give a toss about. Why the pain? why endure the lousy sound and graphics? Play GTR and GT legend till it's dry then S3 should be ready.
I was just going to say that Kid. Was wondering where the shaking of my wheel comes from, when I hit the curbs on any track...
quite honestly delerue what are you trying to prove?? no one is MAKING you buy much less play LFS?
games such as GTR, .. almost all games beside LFS i can think of have 50+ men working on the game for a few years.. LFS has 3, and is suspected to be finished around 2007
... cya in '07
games such as GTR, .. almost all games beside LFS i can think of have 50+ men working on the game for a few years.. LFS has 3, and is suspected to be finished around 2007
... cya in '07
I don't like the graphics in those games you mentions. GT Leg-Ends comes close, but LFS still looks more real to me.
LFS has the more ADVANCED sound system, but at the moment it's not perfect. And I can understand why people think GTR/GTL etc have better sounds, but if you listen they just sound poor, with the mixing of samples.
The FFB in LFS is real. There are no fake effects. If you can't feel it then you're setup is wrong on your computer
So you're trying to tell us the GTR has better physics? LOL!! rFactor I think gets close, but they still feel pretty awful to me.
And how is £24 more expensive than GTL/GTR (£35 new RRP), rFActor (£28 once you've added the unadvertised addition of VAT)? Sure you can get them on budget soon probably, but I think you may have missed the point with LFS...
XCN - '07? Since when was that the case?
since everyone started guessing 
I think the aero bug fix (and all other physic changes) won't be implented at current stage. Like Scawen said, the patch would be incompatibile, which means all hotlap charts would have to be wiped out.
They probably want to make the physic changes only once (sometime next year probably).
They probably want to make the physic changes only once (sometime next year probably).
I agree they will try to keep physics changes to a minimum (as in, how many times the physics changes), but I'm hoping to get something before this year is out.
I just checked on TorrentReactor, LFS_S2 has stunning 23995 seeders and 16035 peers. Too bad the game is yet far from finished and devs have to hold back with physics updates...
Personally I don't care about hotlaps, but that's selfish thinking I guess
Personally I don't care about hotlaps, but that's selfish thinking I guess
Licenses are part of the game, like I said if you think they're so negligible, you should give Scawen & co a call and persuade them. If you're right you've got things better figured out than him and everyone else.
Yep, fun. De gustibus et coloribus non disputandum. That said,
Ad hominem aside, the sounds are real time, a design choice for the long run, for the same reason LFS is made in tiers. So on that point you're right, this game doesn't fit your tastes, remains to be seen if you can prove that it's a bad design choice. Straw man.. the sounds are a bit corny, big deal.
Resp. 30-40$,35$,50 bucks on amazon, but let's say 40$, that's at most -10$ difference with LFS, if that much.. big deal? Not going to get into the tiered business model of LFS until you demonstrate what's wrong with it, rather than insinuate your disaproval of it.
Pretty much any game that, intentionaly or not, ships out to then get patches.. Doom, Splinter Cell 3, GTR etc got patches. e.g. Aces High: 3000+ player base, 500 in one arena @ prime-time, despite faults you're pointing out on LFS: WIP graphics and strategic (a core gameplay element) engine at the expense of "lesser" short term graphics overall, no authentic sounds (the community makes them, on par with Il2/FB/PF's for example), but internet gameplay and physics model better than the competition's. Open ended development in close parallel to the players. And it's made by all of 2 programers and 2 artists.
This is because you admit that quality/quantity/man-hours is irrelevent. It isn't, and if you take price into account i.e. quality/quantity/man-hours/price...
Non sequitur again, the game is made by those people for a certain purpose by a certain design. Spell out the math error please...
No offense, but that's pig english. Correct me if I misinterpret: 1-There's Improvements&Suggestions and Bug reports forums, problems aren't ignored. 2-Naturalistic fallacy. 3-The forum is pretty PC apparently because it has lots of youngun's, that's insane? Whether it is or not has nothing to do with game development, you're just stirring for the sake of it.. On one end you have Racing Legends and on the other Gran Turismo. LFS is right in the middle.
I have played the full version of GTR and despite the few bugs that are sorted out in GTR relative to LFS (you wouldn't notice them in LFS S1 since none of the cars have downforce and a lot of the bugs only appear with the downforce only) I still cannot feel as connected to the car as I do in LFS. FF in LFS is awesome, but requires a lot of getting used to - when I play GTR I simply feel a whole lot of uninformative, random wheel shakes. If I spin in GTR I have absolutely no idea why - the car feels like it randomly shakes, looses grip and the rear overtakes me... why?... If I spin in LFS (a rare occurance these days, except in the FO8, but I haven't really spent time with it for now) I know exactly what happened - weather it was my throttle control or a bump on the track or my setup. You say that the fact that the development team is small is irrelevant, but it isn't, and if you knew the first thing about programming you would know this. Scawen knows exactly how he has coded most things in the game and the algorithms he has used meaning that bugs caused by modules from different programmers not fitting together properly is avoided.
OT: BTW, the forums are a place for a discussion - if you are unwilling to discuss, don't come here. You are currently just trolling.
OT: BTW, the forums are a place for a discussion - if you are unwilling to discuss, don't come here. You are currently just trolling.
some1 guessed that LFS on brazil isnt very expansive because there is a few brazilian people playing, but unfortunally its wrong, LFS will be the most expansive game on brazil... each uk money equals 5 brazilian money, so 36*5 = 180.. but lfs was the only game that got me hooked, i usually buy all racing games, but none of them i was able to play more than 2-3 weeks.... im playing lfs since april 05, still love it to death
You will be playing it a lot lot more
Racing 2 years here!LFS is the first driving simulator I have played, all I hear is people complaining instead of taking a step back and looking at what we have.
1) The game is great value!
2) I hardly notice the bugs!
3) The graphics are great! Using the high-res skies make the game look even better.
4) The racing is generally good, even better if you sign up for a league of some sort.
5) There are enough car and track combinations too keep you busy for a lifetime!
What more do you want?
1) The game is great value!
2) I hardly notice the bugs!
3) The graphics are great! Using the high-res skies make the game look even better.
4) The racing is generally good, even better if you sign up for a league of some sort.
5) There are enough car and track combinations too keep you busy for a lifetime!
What more do you want?
pretty sure that i will
We will always, have peeps coming onto the forums to ask dumb (or just misinformed) questions and as long as we try to remind people that this is a SERIOUS game, that's gonna take some time to finish (i personally don't ever want it 'finished' 
) think of it this way, No time constraints, no licencing issues, a close knit developing team, players who LOVE this game, sh1t it's got it all, thats why i belive this game is the best thing that ever happened to gaming. it's quite nice at the moment to have a game that lacks only the polish of a big money game, it kinda puts off those who are only interested in the shiny bits of a game and leaves only those who love it for what it really is. THE finest racing sim on earth. I M H O
) think of it this way, No time constraints, no licencing issues, a close knit developing team, players who LOVE this game, sh1t it's got it all, thats why i belive this game is the best thing that ever happened to gaming. it's quite nice at the moment to have a game that lacks only the polish of a big money game, it kinda puts off those who are only interested in the shiny bits of a game and leaves only those who love it for what it really is. THE finest racing sim on earth. I M H O i think he shut up now
I don't want to reply this thread anymore. But I have to say to you some things.
And sorry for my really bad english; portuguese is my official language.
I've see you're good with fallacy. But you're trying do apply thoughts on wrong places. Think that way. If you don't know the history of a game, you will only want to play it. If the game is bad, is bad, and you'll be desapointed. You don't wanna know how much people, money, licenses or the time invested; you'll care only about the game. If the DEVs can't acquire licenses, so this a problem with their games, and with you, that bought the game. Again: you play the game, not the DEVs. And don't think "I have to refute what he said". Think, only.
Tell me one thing: do you really think that the sounds of LFS are close to the reality? Listen without hurry. Pay attention to the crash sounds. F*** about 'real time' (...) sounds. We all know that synthetic sounds sucks, and never can't be close to the real world. My Ad hominem goes on a propitious moment. If you ask anyone that never played LFS what is more real: synthetic sounds or sample sounds? You'll undertand. But there's more. Why you think other games spend so much time (money...) recording too many samples if they could make synthetic sounds, more easy, light to the CPU and disk space, and, supposedly, more real? Why you think GTR wins so much awards with the sound stuff? Only think about it.
The user "_rod_" already answered this question.
You must be kidding. Patches is only to improve games, not to make them. All the games you told about came ready to be played; and the patches came to improve FPS, multiplayer codes and other little stuffs. If you insist to compare LFS patches with all the other games, you're making a mistake, commiting a fallacy. LFS has more versions and patches then any other game I have seen. And LFS still has the same basic bugs that the first versions. There's something wrong here, and we all must agree, don't you think?
You're pushing a wrong argument. Imagine if we all have to know the history of game to be ready to say something about it. Imagine we all searching the time, money, people and other things related to the game, only to be ready to say: is good, or is bad, or is unfair, or is prety right. Doesn't make any sense. You play the game!
The game wants to be the ultimate race sim. Why we never see any award (when compare to other games) or real pilots playing LFS and saying 'wow, pretty amazing real!'? Here, in Brasil, we have online servers for GTR, rFactor, GT Legends and LFS. Why the real pilots never play LFS? Why they ALL prefer GTR?
You can't prove it. I have a lot of bug reports that are simply ignored, just like here. BTW, where are the DEVs? Why they never reply my comments? Strange...
You know, fallacy is an invalid argument because can be wrong or illogical thought. But you know that some fallacies are true. But, whatever, you can like LFS even if it were a black point moving through the screen.
Yep. LFS is right in the middle. Now we agree. Better than NFS, GrandTurismo, Juiced etc. But worst than GTR, rFactor, GT Legends etc.
But LFS can be one of the greatest games. Fixing some bugs and be more humble, changing some things, like sound, lighting, FFB, tyres physics etc; things that are wrong a long, long, long time ago.
Nice to talk with you, man.
Hugs
And sorry for my really bad english; portuguese is my official language.
I've see you're good with fallacy. But you're trying do apply thoughts on wrong places. Think that way. If you don't know the history of a game, you will only want to play it. If the game is bad, is bad, and you'll be desapointed. You don't wanna know how much people, money, licenses or the time invested; you'll care only about the game. If the DEVs can't acquire licenses, so this a problem with their games, and with you, that bought the game. Again: you play the game, not the DEVs. And don't think "I have to refute what he said". Think, only.
Tell me one thing: do you really think that the sounds of LFS are close to the reality? Listen without hurry. Pay attention to the crash sounds. F*** about 'real time' (...) sounds. We all know that synthetic sounds sucks, and never can't be close to the real world. My Ad hominem goes on a propitious moment. If you ask anyone that never played LFS what is more real: synthetic sounds or sample sounds? You'll undertand. But there's more. Why you think other games spend so much time (money...) recording too many samples if they could make synthetic sounds, more easy, light to the CPU and disk space, and, supposedly, more real? Why you think GTR wins so much awards with the sound stuff? Only think about it.
The user "_rod_" already answered this question.
You must be kidding. Patches is only to improve games, not to make them. All the games you told about came ready to be played; and the patches came to improve FPS, multiplayer codes and other little stuffs. If you insist to compare LFS patches with all the other games, you're making a mistake, commiting a fallacy. LFS has more versions and patches then any other game I have seen. And LFS still has the same basic bugs that the first versions. There's something wrong here, and we all must agree, don't you think?
You're pushing a wrong argument. Imagine if we all have to know the history of game to be ready to say something about it. Imagine we all searching the time, money, people and other things related to the game, only to be ready to say: is good, or is bad, or is unfair, or is prety right. Doesn't make any sense. You play the game!
The game wants to be the ultimate race sim. Why we never see any award (when compare to other games) or real pilots playing LFS and saying 'wow, pretty amazing real!'? Here, in Brasil, we have online servers for GTR, rFactor, GT Legends and LFS. Why the real pilots never play LFS? Why they ALL prefer GTR?
You can't prove it. I have a lot of bug reports that are simply ignored, just like here. BTW, where are the DEVs? Why they never reply my comments? Strange...
You know, fallacy is an invalid argument because can be wrong or illogical thought. But you know that some fallacies are true. But, whatever, you can like LFS even if it were a black point moving through the screen.
Yep. LFS is right in the middle. Now we agree. Better than NFS, GrandTurismo, Juiced etc. But worst than GTR, rFactor, GT Legends etc.
But LFS can be one of the greatest games. Fixing some bugs and be more humble, changing some things, like sound, lighting, FFB, tyres physics etc; things that are wrong a long, long, long time ago.
Nice to talk with you, man.
Hugs
This thread is closed
What happened with the DEVs?
(210 posts, closed, started )
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