Quote from joen :

Yes, me too. But we would all immediately download a new fictional track as soon as it was available as well. So no big difference there.

No we wouldnt. Be true to yourself. For the big majority of people, a real life Track will always be more interesting than a Fantasy one.

Quote from joen :

...please actually try to understand what is said. Neither me or anyone is saying that there should be no real life things in LFS, let alone be taken out. Some people just don't see real life based content as a necessity. Your twisting a statement completely to the other extreme, not following some members' logic. Or can you point me to a post in this thread of someone saying real life cars to be taken out?

Would I like the ring or any other RL track in LFS? Sure, the more content, the better. Do I feel LFS is incomplete without them? No.

"try to understand" LOL!! I dont know what you are on about, but take a look around the LFS Forums dude, there are LFS Fans who actually think LFS is better off without real life Tracks. That is laughable. I'm sure Scavier knows how important and great real life Tracks would be in LFS, its just like real life cars, and I'm sure they will come at some point in the future. A Simulation is just not complete without them. It might not be a total necessity at this point of development, BUT IT IS A NECESSITY FOR A SIMULATION. Just like real life cars like the BMW F1 car. What is a Simulation?

sim·u·la·tion
[noun] The reproduction of the essential features of something, for example, as an aid to study or training.

A reproduction of a real life Track is an essential feature of a Racing Simulation, its just the way it is, and I'm sure the way it will be in LFS in the future.

Quote from George Kuyumji :

I'm sure Scavier knows how important and great real life Tracks would be in LFS, its just like real life cars, and I'm sure they will come at some point in the future.

Perhaps not. Maybe because of the licensing issues with using real tracks and cars, the developers couldnt give two shits. Hence why LFS was built on the current platform of fantasy tracks and cars. Maybe all this discussion is a waste of time BECAUSE of the licensing issues with using real tracks and cars, it simply aint gonna happen.

Maybe Im wrong...but there had to have been an original reason why real life tracks werent created from the start of LFS when there are loads of other sims with pretty accurate data to reproduce in LFS. As far as I know and I know someone will correct me if Im wrong, but licensing of cars and tracks is why we race FXO's instead of a Honda Civic or Accord and why we have made up circuits.

Quote from evilgeek :

to simplify for non-devs, i'll use an example.

say someone publishes a template for a skin. you take that template, and add your own logos and stripes etc to it. meanwhile, the person who made the template makes a fundamental change to it (change the size of the radiator, for example). in order for your new skin to work with the new template, somebody will have to go back and redo a bunch of work.

The 'time consuming' part of this area of LFS is already done,is it not? it's a once off job build a track? No changing code like the other more complicated areas of the sim.

Give me the magical box of tricks and I'll whip up a ring or two!pirate:

Quote :

adding content that doesn't directly relate to the development of the game-engine is a waste of time. ie, i would only expect to see a new track in lfs if it contained a feature that tested some new physics

Quote :

real tracks are certainly appealing. it's fun to watch a race on TV and actually recognize the corners having driven them in a game, and i often wish that i could drive the LFS cars on the GTR tracks (because the GTR cars are undrivable, imho).

I often wish that too.

Quote from EeeKie :

soaking up the views and having a nice b-road style thrash

Oh yes...

E:

@ george

Quote :

I'm sure Scavier knows how important and great real life Tracks would be in LFS,

I'm sure he knows how many wud love em too

Quote from George Kuyumji :

No we wouldnt. Be true to yourself. For the big majority of people, a real life Track will always be more interesting than a Fantasy one.

I'm sorry but once again you don't seem to read what I said. I didn't mention anything about one being more interesting than the other.
Are you trying to claim that if tomorrow Scavier would release a new fictional track available for download that not everybody would jump on it? Because that's what I was talking about. If so, then you're delusional.

It's quite funny that you seem to think you're speaking for everyone and that your way of thinking is the undeniable truth.
Saying I should be true to myself, give me a break.... Basically you imply I can't really believe in what I say, I'm actually lying to myself. Right...

Quote :

A Simulation is just not complete without them.

Quote :

IT IS A NECESSITY FOR A SIMULATION.

Quote :

a real life Track is an essential feature of a Racing Simulation, its just the way it is

I'm probably going to get burned for this again, but IMO you're once again claiming your opinion is the undeniable truth.

Please respect my opinion as I respect yours. You seem to get quite agitated because I don't agree with you.

Quote :

The reproduction of the essential features of something, for example, as an aid to study or training.

So that everybody around here knows the track when they get on the real track right? I guess it also depends on what is essential to one or the other.

Anyway enough of this.

Quote from George Kuyumji :

A Simulation is just not complete without them. It might not be a total necessity at this point of development, BUT IT IS A NECESSITY FOR A SIMULATION. Just like real life cars like the BMW F1 car. What is a Simulation?

sim·u·la·tion
[noun] The reproduction of the essential features of something, for example, as an aid to study or training.

A reproduction of a real life Track is an essential feature of a Racing Simulation, its just the way it is, and I'm sure the way it will be in LFS in the future.

Perhaps a simulation needs real content to satisfy its own definition, but LFS doesn't claim to be a simulation.

I didnt say or imply my opinion is the undenieable truth joen, your making that up, cheap shot.
Everything I say is of course my opinion, just like everything anybody else says.

And why do you constantly think everything is said towards you personally when you werent quoted?

Quote from CSU1 :

The 'time consuming' part of this area of LFS is already done,is it not? it's a once off job build a track? No changing code like the other more complicated areas of the sim.

maybe, but probably not. for example, one of the improvement suggestions floating around is to allow cars to drag gravel up onto the track when they go off, and leave oil spills when they crash, and these changes would probably require changes to both the game-engine and the existing tracks.

Gunn if LFS is not a Simulation than what else is it?

If I go to the LFS Main Site it says: "The Racing Simulator"

Quote from evilgeek :

maybe, but probably not. for example, one of the improvement suggestions floating around is to allow cars to drag gravel up onto the track when they go off, and leave oil spills when they crash, and these changes would probably require changes to both the game-engine and the existing tracks.

It would probably be a procedural thing that would automatically apply to all tracks. If not, and it does need to be added to each and every track, then what difference does it make, as it would need to be added to any new track, regardless of when or what it is.

Quote from George Kuyumji :

Gunn if it is not than what is it in your opinion?

If I go to the LFS Main Site it says: "The Racing Simulator"

Yes, it is a simulator for interactive online racing, not a simulation of racing.

Some say LFS needs real tracks. Some say a real track would be nice. Others don't care and the rest don't see that real track could offer anything special. That doesn't mean that there can't be many different reasons behind their arguments. I'd taker a real track over fantasy one but, of course, the track profile means a lot more than just the tag "real" or fantasy. Looking at some real tracks I think never but some are more interesting and some even bloody amazing. There just isn't a fantasy track that could be as interesting as few real life tracks.

Each to their own but for a track in LFS I'd take real track but not just any track

For me LFS is a simulation and I couldn't care less if it was a simulator, a simulation or virtual experience race experienceZ with 3d pit girlZ.

Gunn, I quote from the Official LFS Website:

"LFS S2 is a serious racing simulator"

...

"A serious simulator obviously requires a very good physics simulation to provide the thrill and fun of real racing. This is done by simulating all aspects that are important to racing. LFS S2 is the second step towards our vision of what the sim must become and already does a very good job in simulating real racing."

The problem is people will always find something to gripe about in a simulated real track. "This corner's wrong" or "there's a fence there" or "the grass is greener" or whatever. However with a fantasy one, it's always perfect. It's just way too much work. Eric could make several wonderful fantasy tracks in the time it would take him to accurately reproduce the Nürburgring (or any other real track).

Quote from evilgeek :

maybe, but probably not. for example, one of the improvement suggestions floating around is to allow cars to drag gravel up onto the track when they go off, and leave oil spills when they crash, and these changes would probably require changes to both the game-engine and the existing tracks.

Yep just adding to the workload, oh well tis just a suggestion place anywho, keep dreaming I suppose

E:

Quote from Hyperactive :

Some say LFS needs real tracks. Some say a real track would be nice.

Some gots lotsa moneys too

Quote from Gunn :

Yes, it is a simulator for interactive online racing, not a simulation of racing.

Sorry to sound picky but how can you have a simulator of interactive online racing? That's like a simulator of a simulator? Interactive online racing is what it does surely? Not what it simulates.

Although to be fair, out of all the real tracks to try and impliment; the 'ring would be a bit ambitious to start out with But I can't help but think how awesome it would be just pointlessly having a thrash in an LX6 for no other reason than sheer (simulated) driving nirvana.

But then again, I often think how awesome LFS would be with a GTA map imported Full on car chases with realistic physics and handling!

Quote from EeekiE :

Sorry to sound picky but how can you have a simulator of interactive online racing? That's like a simulator of a simulator? Interactive online racing is what it does surely? Not what it simulates.

Although to be fair, out of all the real tracks to try and impliment; the 'ring would be a bit ambitious to start out with But I can't help but think how awesome it would be just pointlessly having a thrash in an LX6 for no other reason than sheer (simulated) driving nirvana.

But then again, I often think how awesome LFS would be with a GTA map imported Full on car chases with realistic physics and handling!

Quote from Dajmin :

Advice

Eeekie; follow his advice.

Witty come back... witty come back... what have I got?? Erm.

Suck a chode.

Quote from CSU1 :

Eeekie; follow his advice.

HAHAHAHAHA! Thats awesome, I used it on another thread!

Original...like a real track? or.......
Well, I've only played the Nurburgring in GT4, and actually making a perfect lap of it is nearly impossible (partly because it's very bumpy, has tricky turns and is after all longer than other track). That said, playing the Nurburgring in LFS would be quite hard, I mean... GT4 is easy stuff compared to LFS and it was still hard (i.e. driving mission 34, quite impossible without cutting the grass). I don't doubt the fact that it would be very interesting, but it would be somehow too tricky to be plain simple fun. I wouldn't get as much fun doing 1 or 2 laps of it as I get from doing a 5 laps race on Aston.

As for originality, I read it somewhere in the topic (can't remember the name of the poster), but he was talking about adding interesting things to the kind of tracks we already have: tunnels, elevation, "unique turns" (kinda hard to explain but... you know what I mean ).

In the end, I wouldn't hate driving on the ring in LFS, but I feel like I'd have more fun driving it in GT4, even knowing that LFS actually is better.

EDIT: Yes, about the time it would take Eric to make the Nurburgring. I mean... it would be totally insane. Not only he would need accurate data that itself would probably be long and expensive to get, but doing the whole track ALONE is just crazy. I mean... the guys that do it for GT4 were certainly a good lot. And add to this the fact that Eric is not the fastest working person in the world

Quote from EeekiE :

Sorry to sound picky but how can you have a simulator of interactive online racing? That's like a simulator of a simulator? Interactive online racing is what it does surely? Not what it simulates.

It's a simulator FOR interactive online racing, not OF online racing. It doesn't do anything by itself. It requires constant interaction. If it didn't it would merely be a simulation, an automatic and supposedly realistic demonstration depicting a range or series of events and a possible or potential outcome. Like a weather simulation, or a wind tunnel simulation or a simulation of a comet crashing into Jupiter, the parameters are preset and you just watch what would or could happen. That is the purpose of a simulation.

Quote from Gunn :

It's a simulator FOR interactive online racing, not OF online racing. It doesn't do anything by itself. It requires constant interaction. If it didn't it would merely be a simulation, an automatic and supposedly realistic demonstration depicting a range or series of events and a possible or potential outcome. Like a weather simulation, or a wind tunnel simulation or a simulation of a comet crashing into Jupiter, the parameters are preset and you just watch what would or could happen. That is the purpose of a simulation.

So LFS is simulating online racing? Or ...we are simulating online racing

In Russia, LFS simulates you!

Quote from Hyperactive :

So LFS is simulating online racing? Or ...we are simulating online racing

In Russia, LFS simulates you!

LFS is a simulated or virtual racing environment, you are the one doing the racing.

i think this is very intresting subject.the nurbugring would be intresting in lfs but its fairly hard so i have an idea.if it was out in lfs make it so that you had 2 do so many miles on S2 before you can use the track.that way you would get people on there that can do a whole lap therefor making the track intresting.im sorry to say this but somethimes i have 2 go back 2 GT4 on the ps2 cause i love the nurburgring so much...i do understand a lot of people are saying no.but why cause we all love new content and the majority of us all love the nurburgring so it would please us all in 2 ways

I would kill to drive it IN REAL LIFe, not in a simulator.

One man, 22 kilometers, no GPS tracks, no measurements, no clue, no information.

Count me in, sounds like a perfect mix.