Last year ITEK tried to setup and run a racing school for drivers in LFS, but for what ever reason was unable to make it fly. With the sucess of the STCC series and its Licencing system I see alot of drivers trying to become better and alot of them struggeling to make the jump from gamer to sim racer.

The thread on the Auto-Trans ban reinforced this idea in my mind and is the reason for my post here. Would a starting up a school like this be somthing that the STCC comunity and administration whould be interested in doing? I imagin it would could be run as either a public license server or a private server and would not count towards license points but be a place where drivers can come and learn in a more personal setting with drivers holding a higher license.

I started to put togeather a school through GURU but we did not have the membership, exposue or resources to do it right. ITEK also found themselves with a lack of students or other issues. Withthe growing popularity of the STCC this might now be the right time. This is ofcource just an idea form a fellow driver.

personally i think this is a great idea, but maybe it SHOULD be a points system? for example, after every session, if they pass, then they get another 100 points towards their license?

I see you've still got your Driving School idea Gimpster

Well, there are many strong points to the Driving School, but many potential problems with how they are executed I think.

Many of these 'schools' are trying to handle many applicants all at once, and they have to try and teach everyone equally. That doesn't really teach a driver a whole lot of things because you really need special attention to one particular driver for them to actually know what to-do.

STCC in general is a driving school enough as it is. Some people want to win or have a good position, and the smart ones at least know to take it easy on the starts and try to avoid the big accidents. The driving school really shouldn't be about driving fast, because that talent comes natural to people over time, and it isn't a quick 2-week course that someone can become 'uber-good'. You have to practice a lot and make sure you have the right controls and setup fitted to your style.

What you should do is take people through a beginner course on an Auto-X course FIRST, and have everyone do lots of solo runs for about 1 to 2 hours total. Do that for about a few times a week and see if there is any improvement. (Have a new course each session so they cannot practice beforehand). After that is done, you'd take them out on a small track that is wide and has a good combination of everything (maybe AS Cadet), and let your class race in practice mode, like a track day. This won't be any true racing, because many cars will be split up (And it wouldn't be qualifying so people don't feel slow). But a few cars will be grouped together, so people can familiarize themselves with racing alongside other cars. The only downside is that you'd have to watch some drivers and give them pointers, and that is A LOT of work to teach someone through text and not show them visually. Instructional videos would be the one way to go, but even those will be hard to make, and usually don't fully represent a reallife racing situation you'd have while online.

Anyways.... the school should go up in stages from solo runs, practice runs, qualifying sessions, 1-lap racing sessions, and then full sprint racing sessions.

The 1-lap racing sessions should be done to teach people about Turn 1 situations and race starts, because those are the most important. Then general racing ettiquette would be taught throughout that course, and the final sprint racing sessions. STCC could actually have a "Driving School" server specifically FOR those driving school students, and they could develop their racing license on that maybe. Like RevMonkey said... a Driving School driver should have probably a slightly accelerated license I think.

I dunno, it's a lot of work, and I honeslty dont know if it will have its benefits, because you could do countless races online in the STCC servers or elsewhere, and THAT is where someone learns. Perhaps STCC just needs some Driving School "Teachers" on the actual servers to help people that have requested to get some pointers. Tough job though.

I think this is a good idea. But I think you need 1 teacher to maybe 1, 2 at tops student(s).

haha tweaker brings up a really good point, big classes fail. (rtdc anyone?)

STCC has tought me to race alot more cleaner, instead of pushing my way back onto the track, i hang back till theres a reasonable gap, and re-join.

So, the STCC servers as they stand, are good enough, because if you do wrong, UKCT Will ban y0 ass

Quote from RevMonkey :

haha tweaker brings up a really good point, big classes fail. (rtdc anyone?)

To be honest I feel that rtdc "failed" because no one knew after the first run that was there going to be another one... So only 3 people showed up; me, shotglass and clownpaint (and it was his server )

I get what you are saying Tweaker. I was thinking of a place where those of us that want to assist up and comming drivers can provide some 1-on-1 time to work on their driving and race craft skills. Some of this could be done on private hosts (Instructors PC) and some could be done on the STCC licence servers with the instructor spectating and the use of Voice coms between the student and instructor.

At this point for a service like this to work all we would really need is a site or place where volunteer instructors and potential students can make contact and arrange for instruction sessions. The prereques could be that each instructor only teaches students of a lesser license and that the instructors and students have access to Voice coms software. Both TS and Vent have a free software for small groups of people and setting up a private local server for both LFS and the Coms should be easy enough.

I know I can dedicate some time this. It's hard to find anyone in the Gold server week nights but there are always some New/Bronze racers online. Just need a place to facilitate the sessions between instructors and students. There is no point in making it overly complex by settting up a dedicated school server and schedule, etc.

djgizmo68,

While I think the STCC servers and concept in general have privided a great resource for clean racing not everyone learns in the same way. Some people can watch and learn, some can experiment and learn and for most of us having someone watch and offer guidness can be a benifit. It also helps to look at a variaty of examples. I may have a different approach to thing then say Hyperactive or Tweaker does, none of us has the perfect approach, but exposure to many will help one find what works best for them. 1-on-1 instruction can also be less intimidating then trying to learn in a racing enviernment. I have lost count of the number of times that new drivers have been verbaly urged to "learn off line" when they show signs of less then "accepted" skill levels. Thats the nitch I see somthing like this filling.

The main purpose of the STCC servers was to improve the cleanliness of racing, rather than the performance of individuals. In this respect it has had a positive effect already and has a good set of tools, like i've said before the best features are those that you dont notice ... take the new $agree function for instance, it clears an admin message to you - admin messages such as 'when cars are approaching please use the pit exit lines'...

All those things that would normally start an argument if you tried to discuss it with a 'gamer' and his zits we've solved and we've become a very streamlined operation. I watch the odd race and I clean up with polite suggestions that people have to $agree too. I send the odd joke too ...

If the STCC starting shifting it's focus onto fast driving then I think we'd become too much of an unachievable zenith, whats more we'd be sending a mixed message, "how can I drive both fast AND clean".

I'd like to stay on message, the STCC accepts and welcomes clean drivers of all abilities.

Whether somebody is competetive or not does not effect the other drivers on the server, it only effects the person who's winning or loosing. If somebody wants to improve they'll improve, either through dedicated and practice or by asking for help.

Quote from Becky Rose :

All those things that would normally start an argument if you tried to discuss it with a 'gamer' and his zits we've solved and we've become a very streamlined operation. I watch the odd race and I clean up with polite suggestions that people have to $agree too. I send the odd joke too ...

actually tiny figured out that this way of admining a server works best quite a while ago

Actually, I never claimed to be the first person to admin a server.

tbh, I don't think STCC promotes teaching people how to race clean... if anything they are hungry for points, and that overpowers most driver's ability to learn to drive clean. (That, and some people just want to use FXO all the time just so they can win... it's that important to them). Of course racing is about winning and all the action leading up to that point, it's just that not many people really do race clean at the higher level licensed servers. Give or take one or two drivers that I personally know who can drive well, they are always good to have a clean race with, but there are always accidents that happen even with the proclaimed "clean" drivers. There are so many situations that can arise in a race, and one slip-up on STCC can warrant a ban... as if they aren't "learning" to drive clean like you expect them to.

That is why I think a driving school or ANY familiar course for people that have issues with driving clean would be necessary. Would be fun too I think. But it shouldn't be so complex. Yes, driving in the real racing atmosphere (and doesn't have to be on STCC) can teach someone a few things about clean driving... but if people make mistakes it is almost as if their first is their last when a ban is in store. That's not inviting is it? You could say it is encouraging to let people know what happens if you cause an accident, but everyone makes mistakes, don't make them lose their own faith in driving ability (or ability to learn) based on your poor judgment of etiquette.

My point is. Have a server that won't have a heavy finger for a ban, but have it monitored by STCC admins and teach them what they did wrong, no matter how many accidents they have caused. I think if you have numerous people that cause accidents in your real race servers, you should send them to driving school (in which they have to complete all the courses) so they can come back on and race at the public ones. You could 'ban' them from the race servers, but give them access to the driving school server. I am sure there would be many admins available to help monitor these specific races. Basically giving them a chance to prove they are a clean driver and continue with their license (be unbanned).

Because I doubt you want to lose many good drivers from lifetime bans... you could just send them to boot camp and hope they'll come back with a better attitude towards racing

Ideas ideas ideas ideas

Quote from Tweaker :

There are so many situations that can arise in a race, and one slip-up on STCC can warrant a ban... as if they aren't "learning" to drive clean like you expect them to.

going from the attitude becky and sam present on the forum i doubt they ever banned someone/banned a sizeable number of drivers who wasnt willfully stupid

Tweeker, that is frankly untrue. We warn and teach first, we'll dock points and used to use short term bans to get drivers attention (so they'd contact us and we could talk, usually a few days), but recently I developed new features in our software that lets us send a message without the need for short term bans at all. They where just a means to an end.

Very few people have been banned for life, aside from those that where on the barricade that we let back on in our amnesty there's probably only half a dozen or so drivers that have EARNED a life time ban - and it's only once been for a first offence (the use of a hacking exploit on our servers).


I think you paint a wholly unfair picture of everything we've been trying to achieve with our server environment, and i'm saddened that we've somehow presented that image to you.

I'm surprised you say you know only one or two people that you can race with cleanly. I on the other hand have been racing on these servers for two weeks today and know a hole bunch. I find there are more clean racers or at least people trying to be clean. You have to remember racing is racing and even the cleanest of drivers make mistakes and will wreck someone. I for one think I'm an extremly clean racer and I have wrecked many peoples races.

I also think the general population on the STCC servers are extremly helpful with tips and setup help. If you really want to do schooling on the server I do have one idea actually. Maybe some of the higher licenced driver or even some of the STCC league racers could come down to the lower servers and watch some races give tips and setups every now and then. Maybe a guest a week on a certain day.

I already do that when I can't find a race on the higher servers.

Quote from Tweaker :

tbh, I don't think STCC promotes teaching people how to race clean... if anything they are hungry for points, and that overpowers most driver's ability to learn to drive clean.

LFS racing on STCC silver server has been a breath of fresh air. It's become more rare to have the usual first corner carnage that's associated with pick-up races and I feel the general standard of driving has increased. For me, it's the next best thing to league racing and certainly a vast improvement on the quality of racing we used to have to endure. Would I go back to the standard pick-up race ? No.

League racing promotes the cleanest driving (any that I've been involved in anyhow) and yet the majority of drivers are very competitive, clean and are "hungry for points" So why is this ? Simple, it's about self preservation. The smarter, experienced driver realises he needs a healthy car to win. Unfortunately, the novice doesn't see this initially but the good thing is, it doesn't take a school to teach this. What is required is a bit of attitude development which I think STCC servers already provide. Actually, some drivers are now behaving like prima-dona footballers and cry foul if you go near them, pretty amusing sometimes.

Having said that, we all mess up occasionally but I think the STCC have struck the right "common sense" balance in dealing with these events. I think as a rule of thumb when racing others that if your intentions are honourable then you really can't go far wrong. I don't intend to crash anyone, I want to race them and it's no fun driving around on my own. If I mess up, I apologise and move on, that's all that can be expected of me and that's all I expect of others. Does it take a school to learn this? No, just a bit of consideration for others.

Quote from Swiss_Tony :

Does it take a school to learn this? No, just a bit of consideration for others.

Exactly It's all about consideration and respect for you fellow racers, and there seems to be plenty of this on the higher licensed STCC servers.

Always good to race with you btw Swiss_Tony

Quote from A.Ulleri :

Maybe some of the higher licenced driver or even some of the STCC league racers could come down to the lower servers and watch some races give tips and setups every now and then. Maybe a guest a week on a certain day.

i have, it gets boring winning all the time

Quote from Jakg :

i have, it gets boring winning all the time

I think you overrate yourself. Maybe you should reconsider driving the FXO next time and pick a real car that doesn't have a 3 second advantage on the big tracks even on the short tracks there is over .5 of a second =/

1b, XRG...

I have not driven the FXO on a STCC server even for a single lap. I stayed in the XRG until I could drive the XRT. I will agree that the level of driving ability is higher on the STCC servers then on the general public servers. I am not in any way saying that is not the case. The new/bronze servers were always a little more ruff and rumble. The Silver/Gold servers are always good for a clean close race when populated. I only brought up the idea of a school as an addition to what is already offered by the STCC. Not to fill some shortcoming.

I'm not mocking the concept or the motivation Gimpster, I just reticent over whether it is the right thing for us at the STCC. Thank you for your thought and consideration on the idea.

@ Gimpster, I'd just like to follow what Becky said, and say that I think it's a great idea. I very much wish ITEK's racing school had taken off, because thinking back I reckon it was a great idea. I'm delighted that you think it's something suited to us at the STCC. I take that as a big compliment.

I remember that there was some concern that the people who really NEEDED it wouldn't ever show up. However, I think the LFS "landscape" is very different today. There's definitely been a shift in the mindset of the LFS population over the last year or so, for whatever reason, and there is a MUCH bigger emphasis today on being a clean driver. As much emphasis on this, as there was ever about being fast. Another thread that convinced me of the shift was Kev's World Record thread.. there was a huge amount of interest in what the fast guys had to say.. people were ready to learn, and followed the thread religiously rather than just believing they were fast and knew it all. This is a fantastic shift, IMO. Right now, I think a racing school is something that could really take root.

I think, as Becky's basically said, it's probably too much of a bite for us to take on, in the STCC at the moment, given the things we have in the pipeline. But that doesn't mean we think it's a bad idea. Far from it. We're VERY pro clean, safe and fast driving.. but I honestly don't think we've the time available to us, that I think it deserves. As much as I can, I totally support the idea, Gimpster.

i wouls love to see a stcc race school but i agree that you dont have the time