I do see some issues with this Becky. Drivers in the pit lane always throw up a yellow flag for other drivers bases on their speed difference. Also at least 50% of the time the one that spins and throws the yellow flag after contact is the victom not the driver that caused the incident. A system like this also will flag drivers that take evasive action to avoid contact if they slow too much or get out of shape even if it was done to minimise disruption to the race. I do not think that throwing yellow flags is a good indication of the quality of a racer based on the current way yellow flags are generated.

Even if your an experienced driver you can get caught out.

I left the pits to join a race and get a few laps in before the restart. I got the blue flag and pulled over to let a racer by. I gave him loads of room when he passed so then I began to pick up my pace. I caught up to the guy but didnt want to pass him as I wasnt in the race, so I stayed behind for a number of laps. I got a good run off a corner and was right behind him going into the next corner...when he slammed on the brakes well before the 200m braking marker! SLAM! Into the back of him I go and he turns around and gets mad at me!

No penalty system will really work for isolated incidents. Only over a number of races to see if thats the driver is a shit or not. We all just have to driver maturely.

On the STCC server, I have been crashed off the track when people are lapping me, and there is no-where for me to go but the grass. I'm not going on the grass to let people lap me!

Quote from JTbo :

We should have small electrodes in wheel and those would give shock based to contact strength, that would be good, also if you don't keep hands on wheel it would put you to spectate immediately.

I think you are looking for this http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Nads_Shock_Force_Feedback

Quote :

I do see some issues with this Becky. Drivers in the pit lane always throw up a yellow flag for other drivers bases on their speed difference. Also at least 50% of the time the one that spins and throws the yellow flag after contact is the victom not the driver that caused the incident

Whilst this is true, and an exact count of yellows flags is very innacurate for this reason - as I said the system i'm deploying doesnt apply blame. Looking through the stats shows some interesting reading.

The good drivers, those I would call clean, have hundreds of laps and barely a yellow flag to their name. Sure they have some - possibly their fault and possibly not, but in most cases the laps accident ratio is well under 20%.

Then there's the second group of drivers, these people have around a 20-30% ratio. I've watched a couple and thought - well yes that's regular online LFS racing, that driver could improve a bit.

Lastly the final group are rediculous, they have scores like lap=20 and yellows=53 or laps=2 and yellows=154. I've managed to catch up with and watch one of these so far, and I wasn't impressed.

So whilst exact measurements of how clean a driver is are not possible, it is possible to categorise roughly where a driver is and encourage them to improve a bit.

After review of the figures I think some people might loose access to the silver servers.

Nevermind, it is, 132 laps and 12 yellows......... 11% I believe

My point precicely Danowat, whilst some of your yellows are not your fault, and maybe you caused a few, on the whole your yellow count is quite low, sufficiently so that i'd see no reason for the system to adjust your licence points at all.

Not sure I like the way this is going, not that I have too, I just hope that before any "penalty" is handed out, other measures are taken to insure that said driver is indeed worthy of such a penalty, rather than just yellow flag count.

What i'm looking for Danowat is those driver who have a 'significant' ratio of yellow flags. ie: More yellows than laps.

I may impose a score modifyer on some drivers nearing that ratio to encourage them to improve.

The majority of drivers will be unnaffected.

Fair enough, aslong as those of us with a low ratio get a score multipler

231 laps / 40 yellows

*cries*

Quote from Gunn :

Automated penalties based on any collision detection are unworkable in a race sim. They always will be.

Hi, Gunn.

For the record, I tend to agree with you in practice, when looking at current race sims and penalty systems. But don't you think you're overstating the case a bit here? I'm aware of some problems in AI that are really hard, but reasonably reliable detection of the miscreant in a collision just doesn't seem to be an overwhelmingly hard problem. Dajmin's sketch (see above) seems like a good start.

It's important to remember, I think, that an AI system designed to act like a race steward doesn't need to be absolutely perfect, it just needs to be at least as good as a human being at making judgements. Real race stewards make mistakes too.

We could start off with a basic system, lets say that in the event of an incident(a car seen to go 90 degrees off the projected trajectory/raceline,)the system makes a decision based on:

1) Level of contact(possibility of being able to control the strictness level)
2) which car was closest to the raceline at contact
3) maximum possible speed for the apex(if overspeed is involved there is possible cause)

When rules 1,2 & 3 have concluded we could next go on to determine if the car was in the race, the likelihood of a driver that is two or three laps behind his next position and being involve in an incident could be seen to be arsing about, but this rule is only used if one of the main rules could not make a decision.

The number of main rules and substitute rules are endless, and if at the end of the day if you end up being kicked off the track for an incident that was not your fault, haha! mistakes will always be made, and everyone will be that much more aware of whats goin on around them for fear of being pitted for nout.

Angle of direction of travel difference from racing line should give also some idea from something, I'm pretty sure

Quote from JTbo :

Angle of direction of travel difference from racing line should give also some idea from something, I'm pretty sure

...rule 2 like?idea from something?E: I'm happy your sure

Quote from CSU1 :

...rule 2 like?

Yes, need to make sure that in cases where other racer is off racing line but still a victim, there is no wrong calls done.

Quote from JTbo :

Yes, need to make sure that in cases where other racer is off racing line but still a victim, there is no wrong calls done.

yep, loads of rules need making

How do I find out about my lap/yellows ratio on the stcc servers?

$myinfo when you are in an STCC server

Quote from Linsen :

How do I find out about my lap/yellows ratio on the stcc servers?

Type $myinfo at server

edit: Doh, beaten by almighty danowat

Thx .

I've got 824 laps and 114 yellows...around 14% i believe.

Does something like being squeezed onto the grass by another driver throw up a yellow? (had that quite a few times for sure)
Im far from perfect ,but i still think that's a lot of yellows I'm getting (even though its in the lower percentage range)

I can see it's really just a rough guide, but imo there seems to be too many instances where you can get a yellow flag against your name when the reality is the incident wasn't your fault at all.

Quote from The Moose :

I've got 824 laps and 114 yellows...around 14% i believe.

Does something like being squeezed onto the grass by another driver throw up a yellow? (had that quite a few times for sure)
Im far from perfect ,but i still think that's a lot of yellows I'm getting (even though its in the lower percentage range)

I can see it's really just a rough guide, but imo there seems to be too many instances where you can get a yellow flag against your name when the reality is the incident wasn't your fault at all.

I have yellows too, some are because of driving error and then I have pulled to grass or somewhere to avoid hitting others, some times I have avoided others by going grass/hitting objects etc. sometimes just going slow as there has been many cars on my way, I can remember only one real collision at FB green chicane when one driver did try to overtake my car from left in chicane at lap 1 so there my car got thrown to wrong way.

But much more than what would be myself caused, however situation is same to all I believe and for those that are racing online whom are not yet mastered car handling yellows are just loads more 50% or more maybe?
Not that I would master my car fully, I'm surely in that group that should practise bit more, however my body refuses to comply amount of practise that my mind would need or something

automating this seems impossible I think. What could be done for real rude wreckers is to kick people driving in a corner with maybe 120% of speed the WR holder does (meassured at some point before the apex) - so people who just want to wreck others could be detected. Don't know what happens when someone gets hit before the messure point - looses control and slides into the line where the speed is taken - maybe those would also look like wrecker?

Quote from jtr99 :

Hi, Gunn.

For the record, I tend to agree with you in practice, when looking at current race sims and penalty systems. But don't you think you're overstating the case a bit here? I'm aware of some problems in AI that are really hard, but reasonably reliable detection of the miscreant in a collision just doesn't seem to be an overwhelmingly hard problem. Dajmin's sketch (see above) seems like a good start.

It's important to remember, I think, that an AI system designed to act like a race steward doesn't need to be absolutely perfect, it just needs to be at least as good as a human being at making judgements. Real race stewards make mistakes too.

No I don't think it's an overstatement. And I do believe that any automatic system would need to work perfectly to be of any real use. The fact that real stewards make errors of judgement sometimes only strengthens my opinion that an automated system would be inadequate.