Quote from xaotik :

It might not be important to you - but personally I like it that I can use LFS in Greek and type in Greek characters to other users about as much as I like seeing other people converse in cyrillic chars on my screen... it just adds a little something of diversity. A pal of mine the other day saw the LFS garage menu on my screen and did a double take - "hey, this is... in Greek!" (a very rare sight for games, not to mention simulators).

I have supported the whole language thing since the first language patches came along - its a huge thing and I am sure it is very welcoming for new racers from other countries. It will help the community grow.

Quote from axus :

I have supported the whole language thing since the first language patches came along - its a huge thing and I am sure it is very welcoming for new racers from other countries. It will help the community grow.

:iagree:

Hmmmm, was just trying to think of ways to make incompatible patches a bit more compatible, so that some folk don't think LFS has died cos there are no servers for them, when in fact we've all just updated overnight...

Quote from Scawen :

[ALL]

I think it was a mistake to think that every one that plays LFS comes everyday to this forum. How much time would you spend writing a few words about the progress of the LFS in the main page?

I think it was a mistake to promise the final release to december/2004, and not have it done almost one year (!) after that. I think it was a mistake to charge an expensive price to something that was not ready and has a lot of old and critical bugs.

But I understand one thing: since most people love your game, so you thought there was no reason to care about those things. It's sad, just sad.

Quote from Delerue :

I think it was a mistake to think that every one that plays LFS comes everyday to this forum. How much time would you spend writing a few words about the progress of the LFS in the main page?

I think it was a mistake to promise the final release to december/2004, and not have it done almost one year (!) after that. I think it was a mistake to charge an expensive price to something that was not ready and has a lot of old and critical bugs.

But I understand one thing: since most people love your game, so you thought there was no reason to care about those things. It's sad, just sad.

To say that the developers don't care about this game is the most stupid statement I have ever heard.

They never promised anything date wise
It is not an expensive game. Maybe it is where you are, but over here S1+S2 = £24. Most new games now are £35-£40.
Since you seem to be so unhappy about the way LFS is being created, how come you're still posting here complaining, after all the replies saying how you're wrong...

Quote from Delerue :

I think it was a mistake to think that every one that plays LFS comes everyday to this forum. How much time would you spend writing a few words about the progress of the LFS in the main page?

I think it was a mistake to promise the final release to december/2004, and not have it done almost one year (!) after that. I think it was a mistake to charge an expensive price to something that was not ready and has a lot of old and critical bugs.

But I understand one thing: since most people love your game, so you thought there was no reason to care about those things. It's sad, just sad.

You say a lot, but I hear nothing. What exactly is it you want out of this conversation? Just complain? Well, you have complained now, give it a rest. Or maybe you have some other things to complain about as well - just write them down here and get it off your chest.

If you actually want something from us, then why not write a more constructive post? So far you're only complaining about things that you think are bad. Well, it's noted and we may or may not consider it in future desicions. End of story.

But if you keep repeating yourself like a broken record, this thread will be closed sooner or later.

Quote from Delerue :

I think it was a mistake to think that every one that plays LFS comes everyday to this forum. How much time would you spend writing a few words about the progress of the LFS in the main page?

I think it was a mistake to promise the final release to december/2004, and not have it done almost one year (!) after that. I think it was a mistake to charge an expensive price to something that was not ready and has a lot of old and critical bugs.

But I understand one thing: since most people love your game, so you thought there was no reason to care about those things. It's sad, just sad.

You're quite funny, I love you :lovies3d:

:smileyrai




Eza

Quote from Delerue :

I think it was a mistake to think that every one that plays LFS comes everyday to this forum.

Where did Scawen say that? There's nothing to indicate the game has been abandoned by the devs, indeed even the latest news posting indicates that the devs have been having something of a break from it. Only your failure to comprehend, tolerate, or support the business model leads to you thinking everyone is still expected to check the forums.

Quote from Delethingy :

I think it was a mistake to charge an expensive price to something that was not ready and has a lot of old and critical bugs.

How many times do you have to be told? It's not expensive - it's 2/3rds developed and it costs 2/3rds of a full price game. You're made aware you are not buying a finished product when you purchase it. Some of the bugs may be old, but I've yet to notice any critical bugs - there's nothing stopping anyone playing it or having close racing. A critical bug would be a server locking up whenever anyone chooses, say, an FZR.

Quote from Deleverysad :

But I understand one thing: since most people love your game, so you thought there was no reason to care about those things. It's sad, just sad.

What's even sadder is someone who complains and then fails to listen to or attempt to understand various explanations of the different business model and approach to game making.

Quote from Delerue :

I think it was a mistake to think that every one that plays LFS comes everyday to this forum. How much time would you spend writing a few words about the progress of the LFS in the main page?

I think it was a mistake to promise the final release to december/2004, and not have it done almost one year (!) after that. I think it was a mistake to charge an expensive price to something that was not ready and has a lot of old and critical bugs.

But I understand one thing: since most people love your game, so you thought there was no reason to care about those things. It's sad, just sad.

OMG, your ignorance is amazing. S2 is not final and people bought it before it was even released. These people are lucky to recieve this ALPHA version. NOTE: ALPHA. Please point out some of these old and critical bugs while you are at it - because I can't think of one that is both old and critical. If you refer to the lack of drivability of cars, please learn how to drive and do not blame LFS for your lack of skill. If you look here, you will see some replays I posted using the default setups to demonstrate that the cars are very much drivable. It was followed by someone saying that despite the fact that he complained about it at first he is unable to find these problems anymore. I know some bugs that fall into one of the categories, but none in both. And by the way - they did not promise that they would release it Dec 2004, they said they might. You have a funny habbit of putting words in people's mouths. Please read people's statements/comments more carefully or learn English before trying to guess what they are saying.

Quote from Victor :

....this thread will be closed sooner or later.

don't close the thread, just remove his posts

Delerue is much problematic, dont reply this man!!!illepall

Regards,

JS

Quote from Scawen :

Could some people please stop thinking that the only reason they don't get physics updates is because of hotlaps. SPRs and hotlaps being made invalid are only one reason. But i'm seeing the same thing mentioned all over the place, some myth that hotlaps are stopping people getting new physics updates.

If there is any change in physics, there is an ONLINE COMPATIBILITY issue. Old physics and new physics cannot join together. Some people will download the test patch, and some people will upgrade their hosts. So then the people with the new version, would be all alone in their sub-community of people who like to get incompatible test patches. So then they'll say "we like the new physics" and some other people will start to get the new patch. Meanwhile, the people who never heard about the new patch, will wonder where everyone's gone. Then we'll discover a bug in the new physics so hundreds of people will be annoyed that they got the test version and didn't wait for the final version. Then a new patch will come out with some more improvements. People will wonder whether they should get the new one or not.

Then what you can't imagine is the anger that starts to be stirred up. Posts all over the web on different forums and shout boxes "why are there so many stupid patches" and "what is wrong with these developers". For some people it's a big effort to download a patch, and it makes them angry and uneasy.

Compatible test patches are very easy, get them if you want to, no disruption to the community. So it makes sense to do as many compatible things as possible (which need to be done anyway - it's bad when people can't type in their own language) before starting on and releasing physics changes, changes to car models and tracks, and other online compatibility changes. Anyway, how could i code physics changes, at the same time as updating the language support? I can only do one thing at a time.

So, as we always say, and as we have learned from experience, incompatible patches are kept to the minimum, due to the community distruption they cause. Compatible test patches can be released freely and that's the time when many game updates are done. When i'm working on the incompatible things, you probably won't hear from me for a few months, as i'll just be focussed on those very difficult things, and there won't be anything to test until several things are done.

you can make those patches available only for single player and not online, so only those who really want to see how development is going will download it and apply on a different copy of lfs, so they can help you by deeply testing it...i think this solution can satisfy everyone...what do you think?

by the way, i understand you may be so disappointed for threads like this one, but the reasons are that you, eric and victor are Superstars to us, our Superheroes!!! we only want to know you three are there and what you are planning...we think of you more as "friends"!
there are people that will never be satisfied and people that will always ask for more...and to be honest i felt so unhappy when i realised you were spending so much time for the "characters patch" because i consider it much less urgent than everything else, but i kept it for myself because i understand it is not easy for you guys to hear all our complaints...but as you can see i just surrendered to temptation and i said it...

i understand you guys are always in a difficult position (we are crazy kids to handle ), but if once in a while you can tell us what's goin' on or if you can ask us what we would like first ( ) maybe we can handle easier this abstinence crisis of such drug called LFS

Honey (just another kiddie never satisfied )

no need to close this thread, it'll die by itself. he has the right to complain and others have the right not to feed such trolls, untill they become constructive.

Quote from Honey :

by the way, i understand you may be so disappointed for threads like this one, but the reasons are that you, eric and victor are Superstars to us, our Superheroes!!! we only want to know you three are there and what you are planning...we think of you more as "friends"!

That's a good observation, i never understood why people who idolize someone can end up being such a nuisance. Why annoy
the very people you idolize !?

Anyways, i think Scawen was trying to say that if certain patches aren't out yet, there's a reason. I would find it insulting
to be told constantly what to do and read all these uninformed comments naively thinking they can solve world hunger as if
no brighter person ever though of it before. We all have ideas, big deal, the difference comes down to action. They have
created this wonderfull game, something i don't think many of us have accomplished, so that should give us a clue of their
skills. I mean, this is the same game that has riveted so many of us, how can you not trust these guys ?!

Quote from jscorrea :

Delerue is much problematic, dont reply this man!!!illepall

Regards,

JS

jscorrea is correct
guess you guys shouldn't lose your time with this kind of guy

He is always making trouble inside Brazilian Sim Communities, cause he thinks LFS is worse than everything.

Well, don't mind, he does it all the time.

But, now that i'm here, posting... I want to say that LFS is simply the best racing sim i ever played (with GPL too hehe). I think that the game is growing on the right way and we should thank the devs by giving us the finest simulator on the word. Even the sims from big companies aren't match for LFS.

LFS got some bugs? yeah, like almost every game/program that exists, but I'm sure that the DEVs are going to make an excellent work to solve then when it's possible


Love LFS :lovies3d: LOL!

Quote from Victor :

You say a lot, but I hear nothing. What exactly is it you want out of this conversation? Just complain?

I'm doing what the fans don't do: tell the problems, without fear or something like that. But you simply didn't answer any of my questions and thoughts. Strange...

Look, I like the game, and think it has a lot of potential things, but I can't deny there's still a lot to be done. And things that had to be done a long time ago; that's the main problem. And you (DEVs) thought this is normal, and that you don't have to say anything about it to the consumers. I remember that before you realeased the alpha version, the progress reports were abounding. Strange...

I think you know the most important bugs and problems: sound (where's the multi-channel support? where's the gear sound? doppler? could the crash sounds be at least closer to reality? and so much more...); aero bugs; visual body damage bugs; tyres physics (please, it's impossible that you think a car loses grip at such low rates of speed.); force feedback (how about shaking the joystick-wheel as the engine rotation increases? and how about simulating bumps on the track? there are so many things yet to be done with force feedback...). Well, those are some of the things.

Thanks for you cooperation, and don't lose your mind, man. You have an image to be uphold.

Best regards

Now let´s all give a hug in Delerue , and tell him that if he doesn´t like LFS , no one is forcing he to play it and that we won´t miss him

Quote from Delerue :

I think you know the most important bugs and problems: sound (where's the multi-channel support? where's the gear sound? doppler? could the crash sounds be at least closer to reality? and so much more...); aero bugs; visual body damage bugs; tyres physics (please, it's impossible that you think a car loses grip at such low rates of speed.); force feedback (how about shaking the joystick-wheel as the engine rotation increases? and how about simulating bumps on the track? there are so many things yet to be done with force feedback...). Well, those are some of the things.

hihihi, see I think you underestimate the process of developing a big piece of software like LFS is. We already know LFS S2 has shortcomings and believe me, Scawen's to-do list is MUCH bigger than your list
But we've been working on LFS for the past several years, with nearly no vacation, working 7 days a week, 12+ hours a day. Now that S2 Alpha is released and because the S2 Alpha really isn't bad in the sense of "omg this sucks", we have decided to take a break and not work 7 days a week 12+ hours a day anymore and we needed a break from LFS, to pick up our social lives again. That's why it's been much more quiet than before S2 alpha. But trust me, we'll be back on the job. We're already back on the job in fact (see the test patches and my updates etc) but at a bit lower gear than before.

But believe you me, we _know_ there are still things missing/to-do/improve - just cut us some slack. We're only human

Quote from Delerue :

force feedback (how about shaking the joystick-wheel as the engine rotation increases? and how about simulating bumps on the track? there are so many things yet to be done with force feedback...). Well, those are some of the things.

So, the sort of horrible fake FF effects that are in GTR etc?
Don't know what cars you've driven, but nothing I've driven has a steering wheel that shakes as you rev....

Quote from Delerue :

I think you know the most important bugs and problems: sound (where's the multi-channel support? where's the gear sound? doppler? could the crash sounds be at least closer to reality? and so much more...); aero bugs; visual body damage bugs; tyres physics (please, it's impossible that you think a car loses grip at such low rates of speed.); force feedback (how about shaking the joystick-wheel as the engine rotation increases? and how about simulating bumps on the track? there are so many things yet to be done with force feedback...). Well, those are some of the things.

Yes, you have a point, and Victor answered most of your questions. But I would like to agree with Victor and say that LFS is very much playable on the level of other simulations out there, if not better. About the sounds - multi-channel support would be nice, but it hasn't been seen as urgent as some other bugs so it hasn't been sorted out yet. The other sounds would be nice to have but are not necessary for the moment. And the LFS engine sounds which give you the most feedback are some of the best out there. The aero bugs are known and will be worked on soon. I think Scawen explained very clearly why it has not been delt with. Tyre physics, as many have said is good where it matters and therefore the low speed physics is just nit-picking and a lot less relevant than some other things. Force feedback over bumps? What do I feel when I drive on curbing or going over the slightest bump on a track? The bumps are not random, they are part of the track models and the wheel shakes accordingly when going over one.

Just a little point here for some people:
In the UK and some other places, LFS costs 2/3rd of a full game for an (almost) 2/3rd developped game. What many of you reply to Delerue is that previous line. Has it EVER come to your mind (those who reply the "game is cheaper" argument) that somewhere else in the world, with the exchange rates, the 2/3rd completed game might cost 100% or 75% of a full game? That's 3/3 or 3/4, not 2/3.
Here in Canada for example, right now as we speak, 24GBP is 49.56CAD. So let's agree for 50$. I see here brand new games on shelves for 60$.
Do the math: 50/60=83%.
LFS is in version 0.5 and S2 final (what you pay with 24GBP) will be 66% developped. Not 83%. So here in Canada, LFS IS MORE EXPENSIVE.

So stop saying the arguement it's not: IT IS, depending where you live.

Quote from Delerue :

Look, I like the game, and think it has a lot of potential things, but I can't deny there's still a lot to be done. And things that had to be done a long time ago; that's the main problem.

At least they eventually will do something to the issues. That can't be said of some other developers. Since you seem to be a bit thick, I'll type this out plain and simple: LFS S2 was released as an alpha version, mainly because the need for a new version was growing by the minute. The game even comes with a warning that says (among other things):

Quote :

This is an ALPHA release. This means it is not yet finished and is still in the development and testing stage.

Quote from Delerue :

I think you know the most important bugs and problems: sound (where's the multi-channel support? where's the gear sound? doppler? could the crash sounds be at least closer to reality? and so much more...); aero bugs; visual body damage bugs; tyres physics (please, it's impossible that you think a car loses grip at such low rates of speed.); force feedback (how about shaking the joystick-wheel as the engine rotation increases? and how about simulating bumps on the track? there are so many things yet to be done with force feedback...). Well, those are some of the things.

-Sound: it's already noted that there's room for improvements. But do you actually know what a doppler effect is? It sounds like the car's sound does change according to the direction the car is traveling - would be weird to whine about a feature that is already in the game.

-Aero bugs (while you don't have a S2 license you can't really say much of the racecars since you can't possibly know how good or bad the downforce modeling is at the moment) and tyre physics: they aren't 100% accurate but good enough at this point. Nobody has said there would be no development on these.

-Force feedback: your comments don't really make any sense. Feeling the engine through the steering wheel? Why would that happen? I know some games have this effect but for what reason? Sure, a minor (the steering column isn't mounted to the engine) vibration can be carried through the steering but in no way is it a necessity especially when anything else would overcome the effect when moving. Simulating bumps? If the bumps affect steering rods then the FFB wheel will react - no point making any excessive effects since you wouldn't feel them through the wheel in real life, but with your body in general. LFS FFB isn't like other sims' FFB, it doesn't try to mimic the general vibrations of the car but, done realistically, only the forces you feel through the steering of a real car.

Comparing LFS to other sims is pointless, compare it to real life.

Delerue..


Ok you don't like LFS and we have seen your thoughts. Can you please stop whining now or is there something else what you wanna say than just 'LFS sucks'? You can always forget this game and go play your lovely GTR or whatever you play, maybe your IQ isn't high enough to realize that tho.. illepall

Or maybe 12 years old guy who wants to have fun in some forums? Dunno why you keep going but this wont lead anywhere so there really isn't point to continue that pointless whining




Eza