WHAT?! Without bringing this back up again, there were 2x more drivers wanting to be in the STCC than places, when someone drives THAT badly, it makes a mockery of the "hardcore professional simulation". he may not have actively wrecked people that badly, but his continued lack of respect and contact was just too much.
WHAT?! Without bringing this back up again, there were 2x more drivers wanting to be in the STCC than places, when someone drives THAT badly, it makes a mockery of the "hardcore professional simulation". he may not have actively wrecked people that badly, but his continued lack of respect and contact was just too much.
I dont wish to become involved in this but there appears to be a discussion of Mr J. Rowe's entry and subsequent disqualification from an STCC league race, namely round 2 of the 2006-2007 season, as a consequence of some incident in this league.
The STCC disqualification was based on breaches of series regulations, and he was banned for holding an "STCC EVENT" licence for 1 year. He was not banned from the STCC servers on the basis of his league race performance, he just isn't able to compete in STCC events until his penalty period expires.
The particular nature of his disqualification was not just for his driving standard, but also for breaches of championship and series regulations. Whilst it is true that "Rowegate" spilled over onto the LFS forums, it was not in any way initiated by STCC staff.
Unfortunately since the water calmed Tristan and James do not appear to see eye to eye.
I think I am also right in saying that since he was banned from STCC events the driver in question was barred from public STCC servers on account of a wrecker barricade replay. Although i'm not 100% on this. We did do a barricade appeasement at Xmas and i'm not sure which side of it the offence was anyway.
I will now let you back to your BOTT discussion. I'm sorry for correcting these issues and hope that James is able to find a place in LFS. It just wont be in STCC league events.
The STCC disqualification was based on breaches of series regulations, and he was banned for holding an "STCC EVENT" licence for 1 year. He was not banned from the STCC servers on the basis of his league race performance, he just isn't able to compete in STCC events until his penalty period expires.
The particular nature of his disqualification was not just for his driving standard, but also for breaches of championship and series regulations. Whilst it is true that "Rowegate" spilled over onto the LFS forums, it was not in any way initiated by STCC staff.
Unfortunately since the water calmed Tristan and James do not appear to see eye to eye.
I think I am also right in saying that since he was banned from STCC events the driver in question was barred from public STCC servers on account of a wrecker barricade replay. Although i'm not 100% on this. We did do a barricade appeasement at Xmas and i'm not sure which side of it the offence was anyway.
I will now let you back to your BOTT discussion. I'm sorry for correcting these issues and hope that James is able to find a place in LFS. It just wont be in STCC league events.
And about that in MOE - and their feeder league is oversubscribed as well. A high number of entries is not a reason to introduce a disproportionate ban. The ban was for the incident, not the fallout. They are separate - definately related, but separate. I - personally - would have considered the ban more proportionate for bringing the sport in to disrepute from all the moaning, whining, bitching and threats of mum Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo-ing afterwards NOT the actual on track incident.
Becky, you know as well as I do that there have been a number of malicious/sham/stupid Wrecker Barricade submissions.
OK then, I'm in the view of some here as welcome as a fart in a space suit so I'll get my coat and leave this thread.
Well I did say I would not post here again, but I could not resist looking at my poor driving as replay.
I will admit with all honesty that my driving was awful, you can see that by the jurky actions that its a bad joystick. I was still getting use to it also.
Every driver I saw in my mirrors come up and I saw a blue flag as you may have noticed I let past, at times I went onto the grass!
I watched closely when DR Spankymeyer caught me up first time, I let him past and duvel fine!
The other times were also all fine, if you notice in the race that when others caught a back marker, it took half a lap to a full lap to pass at times!
The only time I will confess to pure idiotic ability and sense was my lap 10, or about lap 42/43 for spankmeyer and Duvel. I let Spankmeyer past with ease and sped up a lot, I should have waited back and let Duvel through but I totally forgot about him being around, only thinking to not take out my team mate! I had him behind me in the fast twisty bits in mid lap, I remember now thinking its not wise at all to slow up here! It might cause an accident and that would have been a lot worse!
As soon as that was all over I ran wide exiting a corner letting Duvel through, to be really honest with you all, I did not hold him up on perpose.
Oh and I rememberd my waiting on call, when i rejoined I was quiet away ahead from the battling trio, if I had really intended to slow duvel up I would have not attempted to continue at my pace around that lap would I?
I also had to pit at least once to qualify the result under the rules, when I pitted out from first pit I let a stream of traffic past. Sped up and that was when them two were passing, came out just behind spanky, when the corners were over I let the rest pass! I hardly held anyone up in the race
Well that is my last opinion, I wanted to share that after watching the replay guys. My view on it, read it if you like
. Sorry if I did hold anyone up
I will admit with all honesty that my driving was awful, you can see that by the jurky actions that its a bad joystick. I was still getting use to it also.
Every driver I saw in my mirrors come up and I saw a blue flag as you may have noticed I let past, at times I went onto the grass!
I watched closely when DR Spankymeyer caught me up first time, I let him past and duvel fine!
The other times were also all fine, if you notice in the race that when others caught a back marker, it took half a lap to a full lap to pass at times!
The only time I will confess to pure idiotic ability and sense was my lap 10, or about lap 42/43 for spankmeyer and Duvel. I let Spankmeyer past with ease and sped up a lot, I should have waited back and let Duvel through but I totally forgot about him being around, only thinking to not take out my team mate! I had him behind me in the fast twisty bits in mid lap, I remember now thinking its not wise at all to slow up here! It might cause an accident and that would have been a lot worse!
As soon as that was all over I ran wide exiting a corner letting Duvel through, to be really honest with you all, I did not hold him up on perpose.
Oh and I rememberd my waiting on call, when i rejoined I was quiet away ahead from the battling trio, if I had really intended to slow duvel up I would have not attempted to continue at my pace around that lap would I?
I also had to pit at least once to qualify the result under the rules, when I pitted out from first pit I let a stream of traffic past. Sped up and that was when them two were passing, came out just behind spanky, when the corners were over I let the rest pass! I hardly held anyone up in the race
Well that is my last opinion, I wanted to share that after watching the replay guys. My view on it, read it if you like
. Sorry if I did hold anyone up They are reviewed by humans, and are not automatic bans. However as I understand it the incident in question (driving around an occupied race server with the pit limiter on alongside a team mate [edit: +1 other] doing the same thing, thus blocking the track) was not actually barricaded, recalling the details better now (after a quick discussion to remind my ailing brain) it was sent to my series sponsors in private who in turn requested I ban both drivers from the servers.
Nice to finally see some naming and shaming.
James if you were running the race from start to finish then yes a few corners of holding some drivers up would be fine, but up wwere nowhere in the race and should have not held up other cars 1 inch as your part in this race was gone.
BTW, James AFAIK in the Aston Grand Touring race you were using a wheel then and you took me out, I know I can't talk very much as I had an incident to, but one which myself and Norbi both put our hands up and admitted to the mistakes. I know you had a flat tyre, but when the leader was passing you were off the racing line but moved towards him but he got through, then you lost control infront of me and sent me into the wall. Total carelessness if you ask me as you had the flat tyre for a whole lap, so please, the joystick exuse is pointless as the standard of driving hasn't changed, it's just that your actions have got worse.
Come on now and own up to your mistakes instead of passing it onto your joystick, your fooling nobody and the more posts you make the deeper the hole gets.
BTW, James AFAIK in the Aston Grand Touring race you were using a wheel then and you took me out, I know I can't talk very much as I had an incident to, but one which myself and Norbi both put our hands up and admitted to the mistakes. I know you had a flat tyre, but when the leader was passing you were off the racing line but moved towards him but he got through, then you lost control infront of me and sent me into the wall. Total carelessness if you ask me as you had the flat tyre for a whole lap, so please, the joystick exuse is pointless as the standard of driving hasn't changed, it's just that your actions have got worse.
Come on now and own up to your mistakes instead of passing it onto your joystick, your fooling nobody and the more posts you make the deeper the hole gets.
If memory serves me correctly, and I rather think it does, James received an initial one or two race ban based on his behaviour in the feature race, and following stewarding also for the heat races where he featured quite a bit. However, the year-long ban from STCC events was for breaching STCC codes of conduct on the forums, bringing - as you say - the sport into disrepute.
The rules and expectations set out by the STCC were clear from the start, and participants were required to read, understand and agree to them.
James' one-year ban from STCC events was entirely driven by HIM. The STCC simply enforced the rules it had set out from the very start. Period. If you disagree, I'm afraid that's completely irrelevent. If you think Becky should bend the rules for James, then I personally think you need to get back in your tree.
The Barricaders will all attest that I've personally drawn their attention to this question, and I'm currently doing house-keeping on the Barricade reports. So far, however, I'm VERY satisfied that the vast majority of reports - and I do mean VAST majority - are well qualified with clear supporting evidence in the form of an MPR, and sometimes multiple MPRs. Moreover, the barricade doesn't advocate mass banning. It advocates servers giving individual attention to reports, and acting on them accordingly. The Barricade remains a useful informational support tool for server admins, exactly as it was designed to be.
However, this is all in fact irrelevent. Despite the previous paragraph, I hope nobody thinks I'm finding I have to justify the Barricade. I'm absolutely confident that it does that for itself. I am happy to report that James isn't listed on the Barricade.
However, for an entirely separate incident on a public server, James (along with two other drivers) was banned from UKCT hardware. This included the STCC servers. This matter is internal to UKCT, but it's the reason Becky was mistakenly under the impression, in her post above, that James was Wrecker Barricaded. It's no secret that the same incident is the reason Jakg decided he could no longer be a member of MG.
My understanding, and I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but this forum (the BOTT forum) is an integral part of the league's workings. This is as I understand it, anyway. I would appreciate someone from BOTT correcting me if this is not so.
If I am correct, then what you describe as naming and shaming is in fact a necessary part of the process of post-race stewarding.. filing complaints against other drivers (per duvel's starting post) and hammering out conclusions.
This forum is also primarily moderated by the BOTT league organizers, and only on a secondary basis by LFS Forum moderators. Independence/autonomy for leagues is important.
Im just wizzing through to watch it a 2nd time, damn not being able to jump to a point in time or rewind grrrrr.
When rejoining and then stop-starting for whatever reasons, the rules say your fine to get straight in and race however you have to accept that your way behind everyone and the only people you can hope to beat are future disconnectors and the likes. If things like hardware made it really bad to drive then you shouldnt have taken part, you'd have been much better sitting this one out and just accepting it and allowing everyone else the chance to have a clean fair fight on the track. You'd expect the same from others, and in a controlled & organised environment you really need to show more respect to the other people on the track, a mobile chicane can be a real f*cker to race with because you dont know what the other person is going to do. It causes problems.
If you had phonecalls you HAD to answer, spectate.
Ultimately YOU are responsible for the car your driving, and through whatever reason their are problems they are your doing. If you have distractions, irratic frames, a bad ping, or a sh*t controller... those are things you have to accept responsibility for, as they arent at the control of anyone else.
The correct thing to do was accept it was never going to be your day and just sat it out from spectator or something, attempting to take part while risking ruining the race and enjoyment of it for everyone else so you could pick up scraps points was never going to be a popular move.
With that said though, ignoring the fact that i dont think you should have been out on the track in the first place or that you were nothing more than a completely unpredictable moving hazard... there isnt quite the evil scheming on display that the thread seems to be making out there is.
I was kinda expecting some noticeable cases of team tactics which schumi would hold his hand up and say he'd never thought to do such a thing, then pat James on the back for it, but tbh its quite the let-down
The laptimes were consistant (consistantly bad) but mistakes made every lap, crawling through obviously tricky corners were done lap in lap out, there wasnt anything that stood out that was being done from 1 lap to another, he was shit through T1, T2, T3, T4...... and for the most part everyone gets past the crawling car without any issues, DuVeL included.
First incident - Lap 7/36
Blue flag comes on last banked corner, plenty of distance behind to carry on, same sh*t speed through the chicane and stayed on usual line, stayed tight and moved right over off the power after the hairpin.
There wasnt any weaving, changing of racing line, and no slower speeds than any other lap.
My verdict - Bad luck, wrong place at the wrong time, no sign of intent there.
Similar thing happened to one of the 1st guys towards the end.
Second incident - Lap 9/40
Blue flag appeared over race S/F line, moved off racing line and braked early enough.
Nothing to report.
Third incident - Lap 10/42
Particularly slow out of 1st sector hairpin, allowed Spankypants through and picked up speed 1/4 down the straight. Plenty of time with blue flag up, very little attempt to come off the throttle, move off the racing line or as mentioned 'drive onto the grass for some people' in this particular case.
Went from just before 1st split to just before 2nd split making zero attempt to move over and let the car through.
DuVeL lost about 1 - 1.5sec in 1 sector alone.
My verdict - Either A) 100% intentional blocking of DuVeL, B) Complete disrespect to another leading driver, C) All the above.
I vote C.
I have nothing against James, Spankypants or DR, and nothing 'for' DuVeL, there are incidents where something has been made of nothing, but then there is also pretty damning proof that he had no intention of moving over to let DuVeL past. There was ample passing time, and this was shown for everyone else at the first viable opportunity or as claimed 'driving off the track and onto the grass' and yet this 'generosity' was never considered for a 30 second strip of track. Places where James previously moved over to allow people through wasnt done, instead the racing line at race pace was the call.
James, i think your really wasting your time here, you cannot defend your actions here, you shouldnt have been on the track in the first place with the conditions you had, and not content with being a mobile hazard for everyone (95% un-intentionally, 5% intentionally) and then you decide to hold someone up for 1/3 of the lap. You cant defend letting everyone by the moment you realise they're there, and then give the 'F1 give you X warnings/X distance' excuse, because thats clearly you applying 1 rule for 95% of the drivers and a seperate one for the guy that just happens to be on the tail of your teammate.
People would understand if it was 1 issue, but you took controller issues, team tactics/driver blocking and a disrespect for everyone else on the track, and for some reason expect people to be understanding. 1 problem, fair enough, 2 and your pushing your luck, but start doing everything you can to ruin races and you'll find very little understanding or sympathy for your actions. Its clear for me to analyse what you had little control over and what you had intent for, most of it was accidental cases of being a major pain in the butt for everyone, but the last incident you knew exactly what you were doing. Was that a kicking out offense, not really, but combined with everything else you did its completely undefendable.
When rejoining and then stop-starting for whatever reasons, the rules say your fine to get straight in and race however you have to accept that your way behind everyone and the only people you can hope to beat are future disconnectors and the likes. If things like hardware made it really bad to drive then you shouldnt have taken part, you'd have been much better sitting this one out and just accepting it and allowing everyone else the chance to have a clean fair fight on the track. You'd expect the same from others, and in a controlled & organised environment you really need to show more respect to the other people on the track, a mobile chicane can be a real f*cker to race with because you dont know what the other person is going to do. It causes problems.
If you had phonecalls you HAD to answer, spectate.
Ultimately YOU are responsible for the car your driving, and through whatever reason their are problems they are your doing. If you have distractions, irratic frames, a bad ping, or a sh*t controller... those are things you have to accept responsibility for, as they arent at the control of anyone else.
The correct thing to do was accept it was never going to be your day and just sat it out from spectator or something, attempting to take part while risking ruining the race and enjoyment of it for everyone else so you could pick up scraps points was never going to be a popular move.
With that said though, ignoring the fact that i dont think you should have been out on the track in the first place or that you were nothing more than a completely unpredictable moving hazard... there isnt quite the evil scheming on display that the thread seems to be making out there is.
I was kinda expecting some noticeable cases of team tactics which schumi would hold his hand up and say he'd never thought to do such a thing, then pat James on the back for it, but tbh its quite the let-down
The laptimes were consistant (consistantly bad) but mistakes made every lap, crawling through obviously tricky corners were done lap in lap out, there wasnt anything that stood out that was being done from 1 lap to another, he was shit through T1, T2, T3, T4...... and for the most part everyone gets past the crawling car without any issues, DuVeL included.
First incident - Lap 7/36
Blue flag comes on last banked corner, plenty of distance behind to carry on, same sh*t speed through the chicane and stayed on usual line, stayed tight and moved right over off the power after the hairpin.
There wasnt any weaving, changing of racing line, and no slower speeds than any other lap.
My verdict - Bad luck, wrong place at the wrong time, no sign of intent there.
Similar thing happened to one of the 1st guys towards the end.
Second incident - Lap 9/40
Blue flag appeared over race S/F line, moved off racing line and braked early enough.
Nothing to report.
Third incident - Lap 10/42
Particularly slow out of 1st sector hairpin, allowed Spankypants through and picked up speed 1/4 down the straight. Plenty of time with blue flag up, very little attempt to come off the throttle, move off the racing line or as mentioned 'drive onto the grass for some people' in this particular case.
Went from just before 1st split to just before 2nd split making zero attempt to move over and let the car through.
DuVeL lost about 1 - 1.5sec in 1 sector alone.
My verdict - Either A) 100% intentional blocking of DuVeL, B) Complete disrespect to another leading driver, C) All the above.
I vote C.
I have nothing against James, Spankypants or DR, and nothing 'for' DuVeL, there are incidents where something has been made of nothing, but then there is also pretty damning proof that he had no intention of moving over to let DuVeL past. There was ample passing time, and this was shown for everyone else at the first viable opportunity or as claimed 'driving off the track and onto the grass' and yet this 'generosity' was never considered for a 30 second strip of track. Places where James previously moved over to allow people through wasnt done, instead the racing line at race pace was the call.
James, i think your really wasting your time here, you cannot defend your actions here, you shouldnt have been on the track in the first place with the conditions you had, and not content with being a mobile hazard for everyone (95% un-intentionally, 5% intentionally) and then you decide to hold someone up for 1/3 of the lap. You cant defend letting everyone by the moment you realise they're there, and then give the 'F1 give you X warnings/X distance' excuse, because thats clearly you applying 1 rule for 95% of the drivers and a seperate one for the guy that just happens to be on the tail of your teammate.
People would understand if it was 1 issue, but you took controller issues, team tactics/driver blocking and a disrespect for everyone else on the track, and for some reason expect people to be understanding. 1 problem, fair enough, 2 and your pushing your luck, but start doing everything you can to ruin races and you'll find very little understanding or sympathy for your actions. Its clear for me to analyse what you had little control over and what you had intent for, most of it was accidental cases of being a major pain in the butt for everyone, but the last incident you knew exactly what you were doing. Was that a kicking out offense, not really, but combined with everything else you did its completely undefendable.
Hold ur pants; this post is about to get deleted!!!
arrrgh
arrrgh
Now please, as a TeamXFR memeber, i do not appreciate this kind of disshonoring. It might be a joke, but not a nice one. So just let it be please.
Easy Power, I think sidi meant rowe is going to dig himself such a big hole he is gonna end in Australia.
didnt you sidi?
didnt you sidi?
what so ever. It's all about behavior on track, it's certainly missing off track (forum) for some........
I think he thought you were saying that James would be digging a hole as Davo has done, although Davo hasn't. 
I'm surprised this hasn't been deleted allready, usually they delete everything that has to do with anything unless it has something to do with them.
I'm surprised this hasn't been deleted allready, usually they delete everything that has to do with anything unless it has something to do with them.
Well dishonoring in a way i though you were putting us and DR and whaeva teams James was in lately in same basket. Nothing more. And im glad it was a joke
.
And yea, i am wonderig as well, why this wasnt deleted allready, beeing a some sort of commoness around here anyway.
.And yea, i am wonderig as well, why this wasnt deleted allready, beeing a some sort of commoness around here anyway.
hehe at first I thought what hole? but then burnout explained it to me. Never heard the expression since I live down here
I also thought this thread would be long gone, I'm amazed it's still here. I agree complaints should be made in private so that 3rd parties don't get involved, that's when it turns ugly and quick.
I also thought this thread would be long gone, I'm amazed it's still here. I agree complaints should be made in private so that 3rd parties don't get involved, that's when it turns ugly and quick.
and now you all know why i have to delete threads...
OK, lets peel the 
and get to the core.
Elite has suffered huge moral damage, Duvel is back on the Duvel, I'm going loco, so now our team is bearly holding together. There's only one way to solve this and one person who can... Arrow, I've calculated our damage using comprehensive computer modelling, and it seems the only way to repair the damage is to give us an extra 151 points. There I said it.
:drink:and :drugs:
and get to the core.Elite has suffered huge moral damage, Duvel is back on the Duvel, I'm going loco, so now our team is bearly holding together. There's only one way to solve this and one person who can... Arrow, I've calculated our damage using comprehensive computer modelling, and it seems the only way to repair the damage is to give us an extra 151 points. There I said it.
:drink:and :drugs:
Round 7 Discussion
(94 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG